No offense but the 4th gen window crap was probably designed in 91 or 92 (windows and motors).

I bet the new window motors won't even come from the same supplier.

Its easily been 17 years...

 

My wifes 02 sebring convertible had all windows auto down when the top went down. It was a really nice feature.

 

Well there is that, but the 4th gen's main problem was the weight of the large window. A larger motor would have been perfect, but I'm told the same motor in a Surburban whips teh windows up and down in no time flat. It's a matter of cost (using a cross-platform motor design saves a lot of cost compared to a 1-off unit).

I personally wonder why the 5th gen's doors don't go as far back though. Obviously a larger single window per side is more astheticly pleasing, and would seem more cost effective (less windows, less motors, less harness, etc...), but I wonder if its an issue regarding the rear suspension. The 4th gen's solid-rear axle makes for few shock tower requirements other than a spring perch and shock mount (and you can even elliminate the spring perch on the chasis and rear end if converting to a coil-over), but a IRS would obviously need mounts for an upper A-arm as well... which would seem to require a bit more wheel well area. One of the advantages of large flared rear fenders, but at the sacrifice of a slightly shorter door and as a consequece, either b-piller-ish windows (since a single window wouldn't fit in the shorter door, even if you could slide it forward instead of straight down).

As long as they seriously consider what to do with those 1/4 windows int eh back, and automating the top down , window-down dance I'm happy... but I won't assume that's the case until I hear otherwise (based on my experieices with my 4th gen vert).

Granted, this isn't a deal breaker for us enthusiasts, but it DOESN'T count as a plus conpared to other v8 convertibles out there. Car competition is tough and getting even more so as the industry's retail costs are plateauing and quality is not only increasing but as a whole getting much closer together. While few people would EVER consider a honda in the 80's, and NO ONE would knowingly pay for a hyundai in the 90's, both options are very competative in quality and cost now. Hyundai's V8 is a prime example... (less so for the challenger nightmare dodge has on their hands).

It may take a few more weeks at the design table to get a perfectly executed vert, but it'll defintely get the right press if done right. The lines are great, but as Ford found out, those 4-window verts are more of a pain than realized. Stang verts get greif on the 4-button dance (as well as the stupid drive-lock out feature... I mean really... I damn well know if it's safe to drop my top, I don't have to be in PARK to do it... glad GM didn't do that on 4th gens).

That's one more thing to point out... PLEASE don't put a park-enabled top switch in the car. When driving a vert stang I HATED not being able to drop the top at a red light. I do that frequently in the TA without problems (slow to 5mph and start dropping the top while coming to a stop, and if time requires it, I can drive on with the top finishing the last foot or so). Requiring a PARK or Ebrake removes those few extra seconds that may be needed to do this without inconviencing those behind me. Pulling over to drop an electric top seems to be a waste of my time and possibly less safe depending where you pull over and how you'll need to merge back into traffic when done. This really isn't a major problem when it's sunny, but putting the top back up if a rain shower shows up makes this little dance a bit more time-pressed.

As i said, with a few more relays the 4th gen system is really nice and I worry GM is taking a step backwards by using 4 windows. If it's automated (i.e. drop the windows hydralicly with the top's motor, or at least electrically relay the top switch to the rear windows and DON'T provide separate switches for them since you'll only ever use them for dropping/raising the top).

Automating circuits like this isn't al that hard or expensive and can really bring out some class.

(If they can soleinoid-lock the top instead of hand grips there's no reason the top couldn't be dropped from the remote ).

Folding hard-tops may be "fancy-cool" and pretty expensive to do, but automating what's already designed should be easier and give it serious pop in the convertible market place. And yes, the vert market IS different... vert owners I know, myself included, don't decide on a model and then check if it's a covertible... that's not a cheap feature to upgrade to... they look at all the convertibles available compare them that way. I seriously think the reason 4th gen verts were so rare isn't that f-body owners don't like verts, it's that most vert owners don't need that much muscle (hense all the miatas, S2000, etc... that sell like hot cakes in comparison). If you want to sell verts to more than just f-body guys you need to bring in others who normally wouldn't consider a muscle car by executing a GREAT convertible package. That means automating circuits and obvious styling both top up and down (which I think they nailed if those 4 windows doesn't spoil the effect with too many buttons or a top down "dance").

Boy I hope Scott reads these posts... they have a real chance at nailing this thing with the right package.

 

Yeh seriously. I have a friend who has a green 4th gen vert and he said the car was perfect, except of the windows, the window motors always gave out . GM should have solved this problem and i hope there wont be any BS problems anymore. THe way GM is paying attention to the car, i think there gonna make sure every screw is tight and everything in the car works

 

ummm.. to be fair, my 4th gen vert has 1/4 million miles and the passenger window died a few months ago. That's not bad considering it's size and the windows weight. I'd feel better about it though if GM had relays for the motors (though their newer vehicles tend to do this regularly) and managed to size a larger unit for such a big window. The window issue I had wasn't repeated failures, just that they're slow in normal operation. Without an express-down feature for the passenger window, the wait was even more noticable/annoying when dropping the top. :/

with express-down/up on the widows and top I could care less if it's slow (though now that I've done relay mods to both windows that's not a problem anymore).

 

Consider yourself lucky. My 4th gen has less than 60k miles and I've replaced the driver's window motor twice.

 

A single large long and heavy door? Like how people were complaining from the last 2 generations? And then no c-pillar with a wrap around heavy rr glass like the last 2 generations?

The arms for the rr suspension are attached to the rr cradle and doesnt have anything in frt of the tire. The G8's rr door is close to the rr wheel opening. But the 2 door has a longer rr axle to door distance, so does the CTS coupe. It's more to do with a longer wheelbase and not suspension that makes the doors closer to the wheels. If the 4th gen didn't keep the same floor pan, the wheelbase would've been longer and the door would've been farther from the rr wheel and the overhangs wouldn't have been so long.

 

I had a 1997 Cavalier convertible and the 1/4 windows in that car ONLY went up and down with the top. There wasn't a manual up/down for them.

Does the Mustang 'vert require you to manually roll down the rear windows? If so, that's dumb. They should go down with the top - I agree with you there (the option to manually open and close them is nice, too, but when the top goes the quarter windows should too).

Other than small sports cars like the Miata and S2000, I don't think that there are hardly any two window convertibles out there right now. Every other car I can think of has 4.

 

Yep. The rest of us will be getting Z28's and leaving you in our dust.

 

Just had one of these as a rental in Vegas... all four windows automatically roll down before the roof opens when you hit the button for the top; however, each window does have its own switch on the drivers door which was nice because you were able to roll up all four windows to reduce the wind noise. This makes taking that annoying cell phone call possible at lower speeds.

 

Thanks. That answers my question. That's as it should be.

 

FWIW my ex's 98 Mustang Convertible had the 4 switches on the door for the windows and the top did not pull them down. I wish the 4th gens came with an express down passenger side window, but that's my only complaint.

But on her Mustang, having the 4 switches meant driving with the top up and front windows up but the "shark fins" could come down. It would get a lot of good circulation in the cabin without really rustling things around or messing up her hair. Also, if you rolled them down during light/medium rain on the highway, you barely got any water in the car as well, where cracking the front windows would let more water in and would also have more wind noise.

I for one like the 4 separate switches, but don't think it should put all 4 windows down, just the shark fins. Just give the other two windows an express down function.

 

Well if you dont like having 4 windows thats another issue. I loved being able to roll down my rear 1/4 windows in my 69. I was hoping for roll down 1/4 windows just like the ones you see here to be available on the coupe.

The B Pillar in the coupe is bigger than the weather stripping you see here. Not only that, but with roll down rear 1/4 windows you notice something really cool. Where the B pillar usually is passenger seat, that your eye line usually stops at is gone. Now granted this is the vert so that opens alot of line of sight but its really noticible in a coupe.

Anyway, having 2 door windows and 2 roll down 1/4 windows. means a wider field of view not less. Without them your vision stops at the B Pillar. The door windows would be the same which are almost 4th gen in length, but where the 1/4 windows are would be the rag top. Now if you agree you would like the windows to extend your feild of view past the length of the doors, you need a weather stripping to seal between the two pieces of glass. Thats what we have here.

Sorry, roll down 1/4s was a cool 69 feature I was hoping would make it on the coupe. I get tho weight savings and structure but still not thrilled about loosing that....

 

That's a new feature... I drove a 2002 that didn't do that. It had 4 separate switches for each window, and yes, it only have express down for the drivers side. What a PITA that was. At least they automated it later, but the very existance of the switches for the rear 2 windows looks like crap. Instead of linking them to the top I suppose they could relay them to the side windows... then they go up/down together and don't need the rear switches.

As your example points out, a 2 window solution is probably the best solution. .

 

Ah but if they also offer the Z28 in a Convertible...