The new Camaro will likely bring an end to.......
03-30-2006, 04:47 PM
#31
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,428
Re: The new Camaro will likely bring an end to.......
I can see you guys are worrying about the nose of the car, with the grill almost cuping the air.
This can be solved by placing a vent on the sides of the grill, that exit right in front of the tire.
I made a chop using paint on my computer. Its not as good as some of you guys can do with photoshop, but I'm sure you will get the idea.
....almost looks exotic.
This can be solved by placing a vent on the sides of the grill, that exit right in front of the tire.
I made a chop using paint on my computer. Its not as good as some of you guys can do with photoshop, but I'm sure you will get the idea.
....almost looks exotic.
03-30-2006, 05:38 PM
#32
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 109
Re: The new Camaro will likely bring an end to.......
Originally Posted by SSCamaro99_3
Aerodynamics is not intuitive.
Drag coefficient is effected by so many little things its almost impossible to estimate just by looking for anything other than VERY simple bodies like flat plates and cylinders. The Reynolds number you're operating at has a huge effect. Depending on the specific shape of the body, drag coefficient can change depending upon your velocity because it shifts to a different Reynolds number regime. Thats all not to mention vortex effects, flow separation, boundry layer separation and any number of strange and unusual aerodynamic effects that may be going on.
03-30-2006, 06:53 PM
#33
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Annapolis MD
Posts: 2,802
Re: The new Camaro will likely bring an end to.......
Originally Posted by nova
I'll be happy to lend my Fundamentals of Aerodynamics book to anybody who disagrees. Let them see just how counter-intuitive it can be.
Drag coefficient is effected by so many little things its almost impossible to estimate just by looking for anything other than VERY simple bodies like flat plates and cylinders. The Reynolds number you're operating at has a huge effect. Depending on the specific shape of the body, drag coefficient can change depending upon your velocity because it shifts to a different Reynolds number regime. Thats all not to mention vortex effects, flow separation, boundry layer separation and any number of strange and unusual aerodynamic effects that may be going on.
Drag coefficient is effected by so many little things its almost impossible to estimate just by looking for anything other than VERY simple bodies like flat plates and cylinders. The Reynolds number you're operating at has a huge effect. Depending on the specific shape of the body, drag coefficient can change depending upon your velocity because it shifts to a different Reynolds number regime. Thats all not to mention vortex effects, flow separation, boundry layer separation and any number of strange and unusual aerodynamic effects that may be going on.
03-30-2006, 08:00 PM
#34
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: manassas, VA
Posts: 808
Re: The new Camaro will likely bring an end to.......
Originally Posted by 5thgen69camaro
So can the back pressure from the front grille be channeled through the engine bay then out the back of the cowl and over the windshield?
As people are trying to explain, aerodynamics is counter intuitive. Want a great example. Modern trucks are designed to be more aerodynamic with the tailgates UP than down. The bed holds air, which creates a nice big boundary layer (i know, not quite teh right application of the term) so air coming over the cab smoothly exits back. Open the tailgate and you create a low pressure area in the bed since air coming over the top spills down to the floor of the bed.
Aero is way too complex to estimate by looking, as some in this thread have already said. Sometimes adding a vent (like dropping the tailgate) costs you more energy in air movement than just letting the air build pressure and create a cushion that keeps more air from coming in. That air cushion becomes you 'grille cover'
03-30-2006, 08:10 PM
#35
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Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 1,531
Re: The new Camaro will likely bring an end to.......
While I wouldn't say aerodynamics aren't important, I wouldn't place as much emphasis on them as some others. There seems to be a tradeoff between, aero, design, and cost. They could make it a bulbous car with a wonderful Cd, but who would want to buy that? They could use a number of solutions like the plates under the Corvette, but they might add cost.
I'm sure the aero wizards will gin up some good ideas to help. I've seen a couple areas on the 4th gen cars where that was done. In the end appearance counts for a lot as well. Mustang has been getting worse figures for a while now. It hasn't seemed to make a dent in their sales.
I'm sure the aero wizards will gin up some good ideas to help. I've seen a couple areas on the 4th gen cars where that was done. In the end appearance counts for a lot as well. Mustang has been getting worse figures for a while now. It hasn't seemed to make a dent in their sales.
03-30-2006, 08:32 PM
#36
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Annapolis MD
Posts: 2,802
Re: The new Camaro will likely bring an end to.......
Originally Posted by notgetleft
The base of the windshield is a high pressure area (take a look at where nascar cars breathe from). Even worse so with a steeper windshield. You can't vent to a high pressure area (well, you can, if you're venting even higher pressure, but...)
As people are trying to explain, aerodynamics is counter intuitive. Want a great example. Modern trucks are designed to be more aerodynamic with the tailgates UP than down. The bed holds air, which creates a nice big boundary layer (i know, not quite teh right application of the term) so air coming over the cab smoothly exits back. Open the tailgate and you create a low pressure area in the bed since air coming over the top spills down to the floor of the bed.
Aero is way too complex to estimate by looking, as some in this thread have already said. Sometimes adding a vent (like dropping the tailgate) costs you more energy in air movement than just letting the air build pressure and create a cushion that keeps more air from coming in. That air cushion becomes you 'grille cover'
As people are trying to explain, aerodynamics is counter intuitive. Want a great example. Modern trucks are designed to be more aerodynamic with the tailgates UP than down. The bed holds air, which creates a nice big boundary layer (i know, not quite teh right application of the term) so air coming over the cab smoothly exits back. Open the tailgate and you create a low pressure area in the bed since air coming over the top spills down to the floor of the bed.
Aero is way too complex to estimate by looking, as some in this thread have already said. Sometimes adding a vent (like dropping the tailgate) costs you more energy in air movement than just letting the air build pressure and create a cushion that keeps more air from coming in. That air cushion becomes you 'grille cover'
03-30-2006, 10:08 PM
#37
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17
Re: The new Camaro will likely bring an end to.......
I love the dialogue about areodynamics and I do not have the tools to argue it...you guys seem to be doing great.
I will say this; I hit 160MPH once in my 02 SS Coupe and all I can say is...
STUPID STUPID STUPID
I'd prefer an all attitude 12 sec quarter mile car that handles twisties like it was on rails (I've heard that before
) and I'll settle for a little less top speed.
Give me handling and torque, save the aerodynamics for the Air Force.
...which brings up and interesting point. I was reading an article somewhere recently about the design of the 5th gen. One of their inspirations was modern military aircraft like the B2, and F22 Raptor. Anugular beasts that excude function over form.
I will say this; I hit 160MPH once in my 02 SS Coupe and all I can say is...
STUPID STUPID STUPID
I'd prefer an all attitude 12 sec quarter mile car that handles twisties like it was on rails (I've heard that before
) and I'll settle for a little less top speed. Give me handling and torque, save the aerodynamics for the Air Force.
...which brings up and interesting point. I was reading an article somewhere recently about the design of the 5th gen. One of their inspirations was modern military aircraft like the B2, and F22 Raptor. Anugular beasts that excude function over form.
03-30-2006, 10:55 PM
#38
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 112
Re: The new Camaro will likely bring an end to.......
I'm a noob at this aerodynamics stuff but it fascinates me.
I was under the impression that higher drag is good for making a car stable at highspeeds, that it works kinda like downforce, and a high power car that has a lot of drag would be more stable than a low powered very "slippery" car because of the extra drag.
I was under the impression that higher drag is good for making a car stable at highspeeds, that it works kinda like downforce, and a high power car that has a lot of drag would be more stable than a low powered very "slippery" car because of the extra drag.
03-30-2006, 11:13 PM
#39
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 17
Re: The new Camaro will likely bring an end to.......
Originally Posted by TAEnvy
I'm a noob at this aerodynamics stuff but it fascinates me.
I was under the impression that higher drag is good for making a car stable at highspeeds, that it works kinda like downforce, and a high power car that has a lot of drag would be more stable than a low powered very "slippery" car because of the extra drag.
I was under the impression that higher drag is good for making a car stable at highspeeds, that it works kinda like downforce, and a high power car that has a lot of drag would be more stable than a low powered very "slippery" car because of the extra drag.
03-30-2006, 11:36 PM
#40
2010 Camaro Moderator/Disciple
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Chester, NY
Posts: 1,087
Re: The new Camaro will likely bring an end to.......
Originally Posted by RussStang
The speed limiter on an F-Body with z rated tires is 162 mph. With the limiter removed, the 4th gens were good for around 170 flat out. At least, that is what SLP got stock ones to do.
03-30-2006, 11:39 PM
#41
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Annapolis MD
Posts: 2,802
Re: The new Camaro will likely bring an end to.......
Originally Posted by ssheets
...which brings up and interesting point. I was reading an article somewhere recently about the design of the 5th gen. One of their inspirations was modern military aircraft like the B2, and F22 Raptor. Anugular beasts that excude function over form.
03-30-2006, 11:41 PM
#42
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Location: Exton, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,011
Re: The new Camaro will likely bring an end to.......
Originally Posted by chrisL
IIRC, the actual number was 172 mph. I have the video somewhere. It was a 99 Firehawk with the speed limiter removed.
03-30-2006, 11:42 PM
#43
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Location: Exton, Pennsylvania
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Re: The new Camaro will likely bring an end to.......
Originally Posted by 5thgen69camaro
They are that angular shape to reduce their radar signature. Wouldnt it be sweet if 5th gen reduced that radar signature when smokey was waiting for you behind his favorite tree radar in hand at the end of the month? I know its rediculous but I can dream cant I?
03-30-2006, 11:47 PM
#44
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Location: Annapolis MD
Posts: 2,802
Re: The new Camaro will likely bring an end to.......
Originally Posted by RussStang
That would definetly help me out alot with the local law enforcement.
