Big Als Z

First off, what you linked to talks about the M5, not M3.
It says right friggin there, the M3 is for enthusiasts! WHAT DO YOU THINK THE Z28 IS FOR, MY GRANDMA!?!?!
Ford gets it, and thats why they were running 2011 GT's against M3's to fine tune the car.
Camaro is not.
I dont want Camaro to actually go head to head with the M3, I want the Camaro to be the best sports coupe in the market, thats all. And that means that performance wise, the M3 needs to be the focus as it is the best in its class.

Camaro is selling well for one reason, pent up demand for the damn thing.
If the car was really knocking socks off, the V6 would be selling and 2x the rate the V8 is. The Camaro IS a good car, but there are a few faults with it, some that can be fixed, and some that cannot.

Great, Im glad you like the fact of a 2 ton, nose heavy, understeering car as a true performance car, but I also assume that if GM just put a 572 engine in the front of the damn thing, you would be equally as impressed and happy.
You can buy the car, yes, thats fine. But my comment was on the fact that Charlie wants a Camaro that is a cut-rate M3, not a Camaro that is targeted towards the M3 and not a Camaro that wants to take on all of BMW.
I guess its maybe ignorance on everyone's part?
What Charlie and people like him want is not a 60k Camaro, but a Camaro Z28 that keeps to the history of the Z28, back to the roots. A street version of a light weight race car, with a potent engine, fantastic steering feel, and the ability to corner and stop on a dime.

IMO, I think it would be easy for the Camaro team to cut 150lbs off the SS for a specific, low volume Z28. I think that this could be done for a race-ready Z28 for less then it would cost to make this purposed Z28.

Is the M3 that far of a target for the Camaro? The M3 comes in at 3700lbs, has a 414hp V8, but is also about a foot shorter, several inches thinner, and a few inches lower. Yes, the Camaro has a higher starting weight, but really the M3 is a bit of a pig. Its a smidge 150lbs off the SS, and the SS has a lot more size to it. M3 also uses carbon fiber for the roof, tons of aluminum, etc etc to offset the weight of the heavier V8 and equipment.

150lbs is easy work to remove! And the best part is you still have a world class V8 engine under the hood, with tons of room for improvement without the additional cost and weight of a supercharger. So what you could make is a 450hp Camaro Z28, coming in around 3700lbs, with a world class chassis, revised and tighter steering, and considering the weight loss, a marginal if any loss in fuel economy!
Makes no sense to me...really it doesnt.

SSbaby

You need to go right back and re-read what you didn't.

The article relates to the M3... as the enthusiasts machine. It needs revs. It's tiny. It's high tech. It's got handling. It needs to uphold it's own character.

Pent up demand? Don't confuse your opinions with fact. If the Camaro weren't such a hit, there'd be no pent up demand.

DrewSG

It depends how much weight can be trimmed off the Camaro. Down to ~3600lbs? I would take that over a bloated GT500 fighter.

Z284ever

I don't begrudge anyone for wanting this car. Like I said previously, every one will be sold, probably for list plus. It's too bad that GM won't be able to get more people's money though. The SVT Boss really sounds like it's going to hit my sweet spot. The problem for me of course, is that what I REALLY want is a Z/28. And I just don't mean "a car" with Z/28 emblems either.

Anyway, enjoy it. At least Camaro's model hierarchy will finally be straightened out again.

SSbaby

I understand what folks here are saying and I think it's great for GM to at least entertain the idea.

I'd love a 'GM' M3 more than anyone. Though I'm not sure if GM has ever had a car in the mold of the M3. Perhaps GM's Alpha platform could spawn a true M3 rival but I'm not sure that a Camaro would be/should be that car? When I think of Camaro, I think unashamed muscle car, not a lightweight BMW rival.

Part of the M3's character, besides its technology and handling, is its engine which revs to 8500rpm. There is not a production GM engine that revs that high. I don't know that a GM car would even capture the same spirit of the M3 with a smallblock under the hood?

Btw, I think it is a huuuge stretch to say a Mustang is a true M3 rival purely on the basis of similar kerb weights. That's where the comparison ends.

2010_5thgen

mines lowere about 2" all the way around with pedders Xa kit.

2010_5thgen

i found a company that made a all carbon fiber camaro shell. thats a way to start to cut the weight back http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...%3Den%26um%3D1

Z284ever

I wonder what it's cost and actual weight savings would be.

All that stuff is interesting, but I'm not the type of guy who's looking to buy a new car and then radically re-engineer it. Not too many people are.

CLEAN put it best earlier in the thread. The fact is that this Camaro cannot directly compete with SVT's upcoming Boss. Not as an overall package.

I sure would like it to beat or at least have some performance parity with the 2011-2012 GT500 though. Frankly, I just don't know how that'll happen either.

I think this Camaro just needs to be accepted for what it is. A large, stylish, not very nimble coupe.

2010_5thgen

you act like there is no aftermarket for this car in correcting the flaws. you should drive one with suspension mods and full exhaust. ive still got a few thiongs do to do mine and right now i can tell it handles way better and has much more power just from headers and a catback. not even an intake. sligh mods is all it takes. not even $3k.

Z284ever

Why would I spend $30....$40.....$50K knowing that I need to go to the aftermarket to attempt to "correct it's flaws"?

2010_5thgen

werent you the one saying you would buy a z28 to mod the motor any way?

Z284ever

Seems like everyone on this board attributes every quote they've ever heard to me.

The short answer is NO.

2010_5thgen

sorry. i thought you were the one saying in the other thread that you would want to run more boost on the lsa if it were in the z.