Z28SORR

I think the fact that GM closed the plant and tore it down was intended to be a clear sign that the new Camaro will NOT be built in CA. Also BL says it wont be!

Z28SORR

I thought this had been discussed already. I read that BL was impressed with Holden's ability to build several models on one assembly line. And wants to bring this system to the US.
Or are you speaking specifically for production of the Camaro.

RhinoSS

St. Therese wasn't the only Canadian plant that GM had.

Z28SORR

True, but it's the only one that built Camaro's!!

LT1 PWRD

GM closed St-Therese because:

A) The quality numbers just weren't good. (Near bottom of the list of all GM plants)

B) The sales just weren't there anymore and that plant wasn't even running at half capacity. A camaro could never sell enough to keep it going.

C) The land was worth lots of $$$ and the plant located too far from Detroit or Oshawa. It made no sense to have it in a remote location.

D) The car needed a redesign to meet new regulations and GM didn't see it as being worthwhile.


GM announced Oshawa plant #2 would close because:

A) The UAW convinced GM that Canada had to take a bigger hit of the previously announced 25000 job losses. In return they gave concessions on health care benefits. The CAW got cocky and gave up little in the last contract so this decision was very political.

B) Even though Plant#2 has the greatest quality/productivity, it IS an old plant and may require more money than some plants in the US that were scheduled to close.

C) The plant layout is somewhat strange and inneficient. It makes more sense to have 1 HUGE flex manufacturing plant than having 2 smaller plants that would both have to be outfitted with the latest technology.

D) The Canadian dollar is rising too fast. If the dollar got even with the US greenback or surpassed it, GM would have put all this money into Canadian plants and the production costs may be higher. GM might have announced the closure but many factors over the next 3 years will determine if it will actualy happen.


Trust me, I sure wished it would be built in Oshawa #2 since I work there.

jakef2003

Actually I think you are wrong on all 4 parts. I know for sure on the first one.

1. I remember Scott saying the F bodies won several awards for thier qaulity.

amean94ta

dumb topic it was said way back in 2002 that it would never be made in canada again and that it was a major factor in deciding to stop producion in the first place

5thgen69camaro

Im going to have to find my white book did they mean 1984?

This concept sounds more and more like an improvement the more I hear

LT1 PWRD

I really doubt I'm wrong....convince me!

My current supervisor worked in Ste-therese for 15 years and I have 4 former Ste-Therese employees in my group and these topics resurface everyday. Everyone is still bitter about the plant closure.

I remember seeing some PPH (problems per 100 cars) stats and Ste-Therese was near bottom of the list. Oshawa has been dominating those stats for the past few years.

If the F-body ever won awards for Initial Quality, I'd sure like to see some proof of that. IT SURE DOESN'T SHOW IN MY car.

91_z28_4me

The 82-92 Camaro's were not built in Canada. It was VanGuys and another plant.

morb|d

the city is actually called Van Nuys. that made me laugh though.

91_z28_4me

I live in Kentucky we don't do no book lear'in here.

Z28SORR

Quality can be fixed!

As models become older the sale volume usually declines. Thats why you redesign the car, every ten years or so. This is why FORD redesigned the Mustang. Why was there no marketing of the Camaro for at least the last five years. "A camaro could never sell enough to keep it going" I assume you mean in a plant by itself. So move it to another plant!!! GM does have
other models that sell less than a 100,000 units per year.

Can't comment on this. Certainly possible. But doesn't explain the political rumors.

All cars continually need to be redesigned, to meet new standards. They didn't stop producing pickup trucks when they had to move the gas tank from the back to the center. The market for high performance sports coupes is no different today then it was in 2002. So why is it worthwhile now, but not then??

[/QUOTE]

These all sound like excuses not reasons. None of the supposed problems with the Camaro just suddenly occured out of nowhere. The Camaro didn't exist in a vacuum. GM knew the Camaro needed a update, they new about the complains, and they knew about the new regs. They knew the demand for HP vehicles was on the increase all across the board. So why would they then kill one of the most popular HP vehicles of all time.
No, there is more to this then simply an aging vehicle. If they had released this new concept in 2002 it would have made just as big a splash then, as it has today.

morb|d

you missed about 3 months worth of discussion a year to a year and a half ago. the problem is as long the plant was there, it was a CAMARO plant. the CAW had GM's ***** in a vice. so no, it wasn't possible to move Camaro production as that would breach the CAW contract and get GM into all sorts of penalties and troubles.

that saying about the devil in the details... it's especially true when it comes to GM and their myriad of deals and contracts. things that are "obvious" fixes aren't all that obvious when you dig in and discover the "gotchas".

the whole point to get across here, is it was necessery to KILL Camaro, to convince the CAW to level the plant. no plant, no contract, no problem. understood?

91_z28_4me

There are tons of reasons why GM wanted out of the St. Therese plant. If you wanna know then search it is all here, about 1.5 years ago. The only reason that GM put the F-cars into the plant to begin with is that the Canadian local government put HUGE money out there to keep it open.