NikiVee

Clue To Next Monaro

Paul Gover
7 April 2006
www.carsguide.com.au

A hand-picked team of GM Holden's most talented youngsters is working to turn the Chevrolet Camaro concept car into a reality. They could also be creating the next Monaro.

The special taskforce was set up at the start of the year, soon after the Camaro was revealed at the Detroit motor show and is reporting through former GM Holden design chief, Michael Simcoe.

He was in Australia during the Melbourne motor show in February and admitted at the time he was visiting partly to commission some local work on an international project. It now appears that the job is more than just VE Commodore and Statesman tweaking for their planned role as an export money-earner for GM Holden. And the Camaro will sit comfortably on the same basic mechanical package used in the new Australian hero cars.

"The only thing I can say on the record is that our new rear-wheel drive architecture is the main candidate for the future American rear-wheel drive products, including the Camaro Concept," GM Holden chairman Denny Mooney says.

"We have a significant number of engineering and design resources at Fishermans Bend [Victoria] working on the project."

Mooney is careful to avoid any confirmation of a Camaro road car project, even though the car was an overwhelming success at the Detroit show and is considered a certainty for full-scale production. And he will still not discuss the potential impact of the Camaro project on the future of the Holden Monaro, which is now a good idea looking for a body and an engineering team.

It is obvious that the design team at Fishermans Bend has a strong standing within General Motors, thanks to all sorts of successful projects, from the Monaro-based Pontiac GTO to the retro Efijy show car which is now odds-on for a flag waving tour in the US later this year. Simcoe's promotion to a senior role is more evidence. And GM Holden's design director Tony Stolfo is close to Ed Welburn, the company's vice-president of global design.

Mooney says the global platform work is a big benefit to the Port Melbourne design centre, which is now the third-largest in the GM world following an expansion last year which took staff numbers from 107 to 176. While the Camaro project is in its early days, Holden is into the last months of the VZ Commodore and finalising launch plans for the VE and Statesman. Mooney says the final production time is now locked in place and the runout has begun.

"We are low on stock. Our dealers would say now that we are short of stock," Mooney says. "We don't have any issues on runout. Our production lines are fine." But GM Holden is going to face another challenge, as Ford is definitely working on a BFIII Falcon for the final months of 2006.

NikiVee

Not on response? I guess everyone has already seen this article and has already made a comment I suppose.

What this tells me is two things, Any new GTO will look similiar to the Camaro, and two the Camaro will not be a lightweight.

Z284ever

The buzz is that the "Monaro replacement" will be a version of the Camaro.

guionM

Haven't seen the article, but knew Camaro was sent to Holden some time ago (well before the car was shown at NAIAS) for development work.

I'm not so sure about what the next Monaro will or won't be. It all depends on how quickly they want to get Monaro's replacement on the streets, and the direction GTO goes. Holden has had a Monaro replacement designed that was to be part of the big coupes that got delayed last year.

As for Camaro not being a lightweight, I think that's a given. However, I'd wager that although it will be heavier than a comparable 4th gen, the top models will be lighter than the loaded to the teeth GTO-Monaro was.


Here's a few items to think about.

Dennis Mooney is far less of a maverick due to being from GM-North America than Peter Hanenberger was, so I'd expect him to jump on Camaro instead of holding out for the original sized car (I'll be the 1st to admit I might be wrong about him, though).

If Holden goes for a version of Camaro, and GM still intends to have a large coupe (still apparently on as of February) as GTO, there needs to be a car to help build up the volume. Velite? Monte Carlo?

Z284ever

Yup.

The weird thing about a Monte Carlo replacement is, although such a car is apparently still on the books for sometime in the future, nobody is actually working on one.

Big Als Z

I thought about this. If they sent the Camaro Down Under for "development" maybe that could mean that the Monaro will be a Camaro rebadge, and its there to get a more Aussie-Friendly suspension, not to mention skid plates.

Now, what if the GTO isnt a coupe at all? What if we get a quad coupe or even a 4dr coupe (think Aston Rampeed or whatever that was) and no coupe for Pontiac?

Z284ever

Honestly, I don't think a decision has been made.

NikiVee

Everything is up in the air.

formula79

I think the decision on the GTO has been made or will be very soon. Also...been poking around, and it seems like Pontiac has the G8 ready to go...just needs a place to build it.

Just because someone is not working on a project does not mean it is dead...or not going anywhere...they are just waiting for engineering to finish the chassis so they can dump the design on it.

Z284ever

If you're talking about the "previous" G8, it sure is ready to go. It was to be the upcoming Holden VE Commodore with a grill job.

Apparently, after the NA programs were cancelled/delayed/whatever, Pontiac decided that it really wanted something abit more expressive anyway. Something more along the lines of a MB CLS. Nothing has been approved however. And I don't mean a winkie eye 'nothing's been approved' as in Camaro/Impala either. I mean really 'nothing's been approved'.

BigDarknFast

Thanks for posting, Nikivee.

I wouldn't jump to that assumption. The current GTO had them due to the car bing derived so closely from the Monaro. Anything new being developed will be more universal from the start.

Actually I like my GTO's skid plate due to our lousy Detroit roads and the local wildlife roadkill. But that's just me, I think a lot of folks object to the weight.

hyperv6

Here is Drive.comau has on the first Zeta that will be built. We will see the Commadore in August or Sept. Some clues lie here for the cars we will see here.

Keep in mind This is like a Edmunds of down under so the pictures are crude and the engines size may be wrong. At least it will give you an idea.






. Latest News

VE Commodore secrets revealed


The Sydney Morning Herald
Friday April 7 2006

Holden’s Australian icon, the Commodore, will have more foreign parts to keep prices down and European styling flair to broaden its appeal. But will that be enough to entice buyers away from imported cars, asks JOSHUA DOWLING.


Australia's favourite car - the Holden Commodore - faces its toughest challenge ever when the all-new model goes on sale in August.

The Commodore may have been the biggest-selling car for the past decade but its sales are at a 12-year low. The rising cost of petrol has recently been getting the blame - and the headlines - but it is merely one factor.

Over the past 10 years Australians have been falling out of love with the big Aussie sedan and developed more exotic tastes. Imported vehicles have become more affordable thanks to a dramatic reduction in import tariffs and, more recently, a stronger Aussie dollar.

Ten years ago, imported vehicles accounted for half of all new vehicles sold. Today, they make up more than 70 per cent of new-car sales. A decade ago, imported passenger cars attracted a 25 per cent tariff.

Today it is just 10 per cent - and the Federal Government is looking to drop the import tariff on passenger cars to 5 per cent in 2010, in line with the tariff on recreational vehicles.

With this in mind, the next-generation Commodore will have to be a lean machine cheaper to build and free of any excess cost if it is to survive among the hordes of imports.

It also explains why the next Commodore will be the most multicultural model Holden has ever produced, with more foreign parts than before. Will buyers be able to notice where Holden has cut costs - and corners?

With previous Commodores, Holden boasted about the local content of its cars. Now it refuses to divulge details. Taillights from Korea, fuel injectors from China, wheels made in Thailand, body-moulding tools made in Japan. And that's just a taste.

"We don't discuss that level of detail," is the stern response from Holden's spokesman Jason Laird. "We don't discuss local content."

When pressed, Laird says: "The new car needs to be competitive with every global brand for it to be successful in Australia. What's important is [the Commodore] continues to be Australia's best-selling car and continues to be a major part of the Australian car industry.

"We have the jobs of our Holden staff to consider and the jobs of the supplier industry to consider. Suppliers need to be globally competitive just as we need to be. That means new technology, new innovation and new ways to do business."

But Holden has switched from some local suppliers in favour of foreign suppliers who are cheaper. Holden does not apologise for this.

"This car has to be able to handle the best that Europe and Japan can throw at it. Australia is one of the most competitive car markets in the world," Laird says.

While some local suppliers have been dropped, Holden says it's worth noting that some new suppliers have set up in Australia and created jobs, although Laird is not specific.

"The [next Commodore] has to be competitive. If it's not competitive then that puts the whole system at risk."

Could this be the last Australian-made Commodore? Laird is almost furious at the suggestion.

"We have no plan other than to have Australia's best-selling car," he says. "For the past three years we've invested $1.8 billion on local operations. Find another company that's done that. Find another project worth that. We've spent the equivalent of four Olympic stadiums in the space of three years. We're not going to sit here and justify our existence when the numbers clearly show we mean business. We've made an enormous investment in the future of the company."

Holden believes buyers are looking for an excuse to come back to the Commodore. We'll know soon enough.

As engineers put the finishing touches on the most important Commodore ever made, fleet managers were shown the vehicle at a special preview in Sydney this week.



Based on information we've gathered from fleet managers who've seen the car and other industry contacts, we've learned that the VE (the new Commodore's model code) is the most radically different Commodore in the 26-year history of the nameplate.

Holden has designed, engineered and developed the car from scratch. Every model Commodore - from the VB launched in 1978 to the VT of 1997 - started life as a European Opel sedan that was heavily reworked to become an Australian Commodore.

hyperv6

part II

Since General Motors' European division Opel killed off its large rear-drive sedan (it was originally called the Commodore, then the Senator and then the Omega) three years ago, Holden has been faced with the proposition of developing the car itself.

The Australian outpost of GM is not completely alone, of course, with significant assistance coming from GM engineers around the world and, in particular, the United States (some Holden insiders say there is a little too much input from GM representatives from the US).

The US involvement in the VE largely stems from the fact that the next generation of Commodore derivatives are expected to be assembled in North America, as well as Elizabeth in South Australia.

The Statesman could be built and sold in the US as a Buick, which is why the VE has had some significant changes under the skin. For example, to accommodate US requirements the fuel tank has been moved from under the boot to under the rear seat, among other modifications that enable the VE to meet international regulations.

As part of the grand plan of GM's global product chief, Bob Lutz (he's the bloke who did the deal to sell the Monaro to the Yanks as a Pontiac GTO) Holden is now the centre of excellence for GM's global low-cost rear-drive vehicles. In other words, other than Cadillac and Corvette, Holden is the rear-drive expert for the rest of the GM world.

The next Commodore will have roughly the same size interior as the current model but its exterior dimensions are said to have grown by about 15cm to accommodate new safety equipment (such as "curtain" airbags) and more stringent side impact regulations.

As these computer-generated images show, the bulging wheel arches and starchly creased waistline give the VE an upmarket Audi feel. The front wheels have been pushed forward for better road-holding.

To help fill the massive wheel arches the fleet-pack Executive's standard wheel size has grown from 15-inches to 16-inches and the SS is expected to get 19-inch wheels as standard.

Expect to see the base car powered by just one version of the 3.6-litre V6 - the high output version - with power said to be up from 190kW (as used in the SV6 and Calais) to 200kW.

For the 6.0-litre V8, Holden is said to have found another 5kW (bringing it up to 265kW), although it's worth pointing out that the new number is what the engine was quoted in all US documentation as having in the first place. Perhaps Holden deliberately under-called the power of the 6.0-litre fitted to the VZ so that it appeared there was a power gain with the all-new model.

It is not yet clear whether the 6.0-litre's fuel-saving technology - displacement on demand - will be available from day one on V8-powered VE models. Holden, as with most makers, doesn't play all its cards at once at new-model time, so displacement on demand (which shuts down up to four cylinders under light loads or when cruising downhill) may be held up Holden's sleeve until Series II time, about a year after launch.

Unfortunately, such fuel-saving technology can't come soon enough for Holden as the VE is said to have piled on the kilos - up by 130kg-140kg more than the VZ - which, if true, would put it on par and perhaps even heavier than its arch rival, the Ford Falcon.

Weight is such an issue for the VE that, in addition to a standard five-speed automatic gearbox on V6 models, the V8s are expected to get a six-speed auto as standard - both with taller ratios to help open-road fuel economy. The Holden V8's six-speed auto is said to be GM-made while the sporty HSV is said to be getting the world-class, German-made ZF six-speed auto (the same one used in the latest performance Falcons).

Brakes have also come under scrutiny. To help cope with the VE's extra weight, V8 model Commodores will get 330mm front discs, which are bigger than the premium front discs recently fitted to the VZ 6.0-litre range.

The V6 models are expected to get the brakes that Holden has just fitted to the SS and other 6.0-litre VZ models, while the larger vented rear discs on those models will become standard fare on the rear of the entire VE range.

HSV is said to be fitting six-piston AP Racing calipers as standard across its VE range but with larger diameter discs than currently on the VZ. Both Holden and HSV have opted for the biggest brakes possible because it is difficult to tamper with the brakes (such as fitting larger calipers or discs) when the car is equipped with an electronic stability program (ESP).



Most VE models are expected to have ESP as standard, given that the technology has been largely attributed to reducing the number of crashes and saving lives since it became widely available on new cars sold in Europe. An ESP system detects if the car is going too fast in a corner or in slippery conditions and cuts engine power and applies the brakes accordingly.

ESP came into the spotlight recently when Holden's head of safety, Laurie Sparke, was caught off-guard when asked by the ABC's 7.30 Report why ESP wasn't an option on the base model Commodore. He didn't have an answer.

It may be too late for ESP to be added to the base model VE with just four months to go before launch but if it is available on a VE Executive, we can probably thank those few moments of publicly funded television.

Other than safety items such as ESP and curtain airbags, equipment levels are expected to remain the same as the VZ for each model (apparently buyers will initially be lured by the all-new body shape).

In a last-minute cost-cutting attempt consideration was given to taking some equipment out of the cars. But the former head of sales and marketing, Ross McKenzie, apparently put a stop to that and said at a board meeting: "I don't care how you save the money but you're not taking a single feature out of the car."

Which is why there will be more foreign parts in the Commodore than ever before.

"There's no point building the world's best car if no-one buys it," says one Holden insider. "How many people would pay $40,000 for an Executive? Exactly."

That said, prices across the VE range are expected to increase by between 1 and 3 per cent. Holden creeps up the price with every model change, so a full model change will most certainly lead to a price rise. Holden needs to recoup its significant investment cost, said to be close to $1 billion - the biggest investment on a Commodore.

The VE was, at one point, supposed to be on sale in February-March this year. The former boss of Holden, Peter Hanenberger, brought the VE program forward six months because he was worried about the impact the heavily revised Falcon would have on VZ sales. (It would have proven to be a prudent move, as the VZ is struggling, with sales nearly 20 per cent below what they were a year ago.)

But Holden engineers struggled to meet this deadline, especially now that every major decision must be approved by the high-ups at GM in the US. So, the new American boss of Holden, Denny Mooney, pushed the VE back to its original release date of August-September 2006.

Holden engineers have used every extra minute they've been given, with the VE undergoing several changes in the last 12 months of its gestation. In addition to one last attempt at weight-saving, Holden has worked on improving quality in every department, from interior plastics to exterior panel fit.

The VE is said to have world-class panel gaps, after Denny Mooney took a trip to Japan to visit the company that makes most of the tooling used to assemble the VE.

Holden knows that the VE must be a car that will delight the senses, which is why there will be a strong emphasis on design, quality and European feel.

The only problem is: the bigger, heavier and (likely) thirstier Commodore will arrive in a market that has turned its back on big Aussie sedans, the meat-and-three-veg of the automotive world. Given that our palates have changed, the new Commodore will need something more than special sauce.

Related article: New Statesman coming sooner than expected




Please don't judge all of what GM is doing just on these pic's and info. This is limited info at best but does give some insite to the program. I did note the crude pic's they offer has similar traits to the early GTO drawings from last year. This may not mean much but large wheel well and sharp body lines were similar.



Early GTO drawing. I am sure much has changed here.

ZaphodBeeblebrox

That pic was the planned next-gen GTO (per rlsedition on LS1GTO - he was the former head of the next-gen GTO, but quit GM after Zeta was killed/suspended last March). Just picture the VE Monaro with the GTO's nose and you have what was to be the G8.

I'm not sure that the Camaro will become the Monaro. Similar underpinnings, built at the same plant in North America, but the platform is capable of bigger/longer-length vehicles.

I actually floated the idea of a quad-coupe GTO when I got the call from Pontiac asking me what I liked and didn't like about my GTO. After dealing with a co-worker's Element, which has the suicide doors, I can say that, in tight corners, the Quad doors suck/is not an advantage over a standard 2-door.

I have heard (indirectly) from someone who is reputable on this discussion board that the next-gen GTO won't be a quad coupe, but it will be "badass".

The other thing I have heard is that Pontiac will only get one Zeta. As much as I love the GTO, I think Pontiac needs a 50k-75k/yr. RWD sedan to replace the Grand Prix (and Bonneville, RIP) more than a 15k-20k/yr GTO. After seeing a Magnum do a wicked burnout yesterday, I have NO PROBLEMS with a GTO having more than 2 doors.

2000SilverLS1

i don't think the number of doors really means anything there... sounds like the existance of torque to me.