View Poll Results: All things being equal, which would you buy in 2011
4,000 lbs Camaro
108
65.45%
3,500 lbs Mustang
23
13.94%
I'd buy something else.
34
20.61%
Voters: 165. You may not vote on this poll
Here's a weight poll for you guys.
03-16-2008, 02:16 PM
#92
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Commerce, mi, USA
Posts: 2,139
I think it’s very unfair to critique the 1993-2002 4th Generation F-body in 2008. The market has changed and so have we the buyers. Hindsight is always 20/20 but why pick traits off of a car designed in the late 80’s and early 90’s for a different market and different time.
Ya know I’ve got issues with the door seals on the Ford Model A. I sure hope the 2008 Fusion has that issue resolved.
There are many more reasons why the 4th Gen F-bodies didn’t fare well in the market say after 1996 then the cars style. I also don’t see the constructiveness in listing issues one has with the 4th Gen as somehow a lesson proved and that must be fixed in the 5th Gen. It’s not worth trying to out-think the room as if to fix a long defunct car for the good of the new one. The 4th Gen car wouldn’t sell very well in 2009 but it was never intended to either. The 5th Gen is off in a very different direction so I think it’s safe to say 4th Gen styling issues won’t arise in the 2010 model. So let the 4th Gen rest in peace.
-In just ten years our beloved ’93 Camaro and Firebirds will qualify for collector car status.
Ya know I’ve got issues with the door seals on the Ford Model A. I sure hope the 2008 Fusion has that issue resolved.
There are many more reasons why the 4th Gen F-bodies didn’t fare well in the market say after 1996 then the cars style. I also don’t see the constructiveness in listing issues one has with the 4th Gen as somehow a lesson proved and that must be fixed in the 5th Gen. It’s not worth trying to out-think the room as if to fix a long defunct car for the good of the new one. The 4th Gen car wouldn’t sell very well in 2009 but it was never intended to either. The 5th Gen is off in a very different direction so I think it’s safe to say 4th Gen styling issues won’t arise in the 2010 model. So let the 4th Gen rest in peace.
-In just ten years our beloved ’93 Camaro and Firebirds will qualify for collector car status.
03-16-2008, 03:51 PM
#93
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Chicagoland IL
Posts: 16,179
I think it’s very unfair to critique the 1993-2002 4th Generation F-body in 2008. The market has changed and so have we the buyers. Hindsight is always 20/20 but why pick traits off of a car designed in the late 80’s and early 90’s for a different market and different time.
Ya know I’ve got issues with the door seals on the Ford Model A. I sure hope the 2008 Fusion has that issue resolved.
Ya know I’ve got issues with the door seals on the Ford Model A. I sure hope the 2008 Fusion has that issue resolved.
Here are the Cliff Notes. Doug and I had a side convo about why the 4th gen failed and rear seat leg room.
For more details, you guys may actually want to read a couple of those posts before whining about why-oh-why could anyone possibly want to remark on the 4th gen.
03-16-2008, 04:09 PM
#94
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Commerce, mi, USA
Posts: 2,139
It's probably a good idea to actually read posts before commenting on them.
Here are the Cliff Notes. Doug and I had a side convo about why the 4th gen failed and rear seat leg room.
For more details, you guys may actually want to read a couple of those posts before whining about why-oh-why could anyone possibly want to remark on the 4th gen.
Here are the Cliff Notes. Doug and I had a side convo about why the 4th gen failed and rear seat leg room.
For more details, you guys may actually want to read a couple of those posts before whining about why-oh-why could anyone possibly want to remark on the 4th gen.
But I have a basic disagreement here. I do not believe the 4gen "failed". Did it make scads of owners happy? Yep. Did it help them humiliate and shame many countless multitudes of hapless Mustang and weed-whacker-exhaust import posers? Yep (
). Was it an incredible value for buyers, with great features, safety, road performance and fuel economy? Yep. Did it make a profit for GM's shareholders? Yep (I imagine). So the failure was.... ? And the whole gripe list comparison was IMO, moot.
03-16-2008, 06:41 PM
#95
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,463
It's probably a good idea to actually read posts before commenting on them.
Here are the Cliff Notes. Doug and I had a side convo about why the 4th gen failed and rear seat leg room.
For more details, you guys may actually want to read a couple of those posts before whining about why-oh-why could anyone possibly want to remark on the 4th gen.
Here are the Cliff Notes. Doug and I had a side convo about why the 4th gen failed and rear seat leg room.
For more details, you guys may actually want to read a couple of those posts before whining about why-oh-why could anyone possibly want to remark on the 4th gen.
But before you label my post whining note that I didn’t need to use colorful words like horrendous, ugliest, ghastly or my favorite poo when making my point. I'm sure that's technical jargon never to be confused with whining about the 4th Gen.
Last edited by 99SilverSS; 03-16-2008 at 06:43 PM.
03-16-2008, 08:25 PM
#97
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 208
Welp I skimmed this entire thread, and I will disregard everything except the question the main Poll was made for..
I won't vote because making a decision about buying a daily driver based on weight alone is absolutely asinine. Probably the biggest factor in consumer car purchasing in our current market is Price, MPG, Style (both int & ext), and then Performance. Right now I'm looking at possibly buying either a camaro or mustang, and I'm waiting until I can price and test drive both.
A lot of you really need to step back and realize that this is a mass consumer car first, THEN and enthusiast vehicle. Your going to have to resolve yourself to having to make some sacrifices for the sake of the vehicles continued existence.
I won't vote because making a decision about buying a daily driver based on weight alone is absolutely asinine. Probably the biggest factor in consumer car purchasing in our current market is Price, MPG, Style (both int & ext), and then Performance. Right now I'm looking at possibly buying either a camaro or mustang, and I'm waiting until I can price and test drive both.
A lot of you really need to step back and realize that this is a mass consumer car first, THEN and enthusiast vehicle. Your going to have to resolve yourself to having to make some sacrifices for the sake of the vehicles continued existence.
03-16-2008, 09:21 PM
#98
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: manassas, VA
Posts: 808
Absolutely. But weight can impact how good of a consumer car it is as well since it will impact fuel economy, as well as how it feels.
03-16-2008, 09:32 PM
#99
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Posts: 6,166
"Disrespecting" the Camaro? Again, I think you take any and all critiques of the car much too personally. Just like the interior design of the 5th Gen. You'd think guys like Charlie and I walked up and punched your sweetheart square in the gut or something when we pointed out what we didn't like.
You're right though. I'm a Camaro-hater. I'm 29 and have owned 3 Camaros in my lifetime, including 2 4th-Gens, continuously spanning the time since I was 17. You've got me pegged.
By the way, no matter how you slice and dice it, and purdy up the car, the 2001-2002 V6 and Z28 wheels were fugly. No personal offense intended.
You're right though. I'm a Camaro-hater. I'm 29 and have owned 3 Camaros in my lifetime, including 2 4th-Gens, continuously spanning the time since I was 17. You've got me pegged.
By the way, no matter how you slice and dice it, and purdy up the car, the 2001-2002 V6 and Z28 wheels were fugly. No personal offense intended.
Last edited by Z28Wilson; 03-16-2008 at 09:36 PM.
03-16-2008, 10:50 PM
#100
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Commerce, mi, USA
Posts: 2,139
"Disrespecting" the Camaro? Again, I think you take any and all critiques of the car much too personally. Just like the interior design of the 5th Gen. You'd think guys like Charlie and I walked up and punched your sweetheart square in the gut or something when we pointed out what we didn't like.
You're right though. I'm a Camaro-hater. I'm 29 and have owned 3 Camaros in my lifetime, including 2 4th-Gens, continuously spanning the time since I was 17. You've got me pegged.
By the way, no matter how you slice and dice it, and purdy up the car, the 2001-2002 V6 and Z28 wheels were fugly. No personal offense intended.
). Luckily I haven't brought up the Firebird's wheels, I suppose they are "ghastly" too in the minds of the discriminating car connoisseurs here? 
03-16-2008, 11:59 PM
#101
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: SoCal
Posts: 3,463
I was surprised too but that's what they wanted. GM made the decision to use those split 5-star rims in 2000 and while I never liked them there are those that do.
03-17-2008, 12:07 AM
#102
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 284
All my buddies with Mustangs (randing from 99-08) say they like the backseat of fbodys better. Im 5 7 and hit my head on the roof of their cars in the backseat and have no leg room whatsoever, but my buddy who is 6 2 sat in the back, behind a guy who is 6 ft 250 lbs just fine. Both said they had plenty of room.
03-17-2008, 12:11 AM
#103
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,132
Welp I skimmed this entire thread, and I will disregard everything except the question the main Poll was made for..
I won't vote because making a decision about buying a daily driver based on weight alone is absolutely asinine. Probably the biggest factor in consumer car purchasing in our current market is Price, MPG, Style (both int & ext), and then Performance. Right now I'm looking at possibly buying either a camaro or mustang, and I'm waiting until I can price and test drive both.
I won't vote because making a decision about buying a daily driver based on weight alone is absolutely asinine. Probably the biggest factor in consumer car purchasing in our current market is Price, MPG, Style (both int & ext), and then Performance. Right now I'm looking at possibly buying either a camaro or mustang, and I'm waiting until I can price and test drive both.
The fact that a 4000 lb Camaro is beating a 3500 lb Mustang indicates to me that there are a lot of die hard Camaro fans here. I suppose that's not surprising given the name of the website.
For me, there'd have to be a lot wrong with a 3500 lb Mustang or a lot right with a 4000 lb Camaro for me to buy the Camaro in 2011.
I've owned 3 Z28s (currently have 1) and 0 Mustangs, btw, because at the time I bought, the Camaro definitely had the best bang ('85, '98, '02). Had I bought in '87, I'd probably have got the Mustang.
I'm expecting/hoping that the choice in 2011 will not be what's in the poll question.
03-17-2008, 07:30 AM
#105
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Sterling Heights, MI
Posts: 6,166