Heavy Snake: Bigger Fangs to bite new Camaro
11-02-2006, 08:44 PM
#61
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,123
An edit and exhaust will give it a good 50 ponies... at least. A new manifold (some consider it a bolt on) would nett it more ponies again.
Anyway, the GM cam in block engine is cheap performance. No good pinning it down to this bolt on garbage. People are free to modify their cars anyway they choose.
No matter what angle people like yourself tend to throw up meaningless arguments.
11-02-2006, 09:32 PM
#62
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 318
Actually, that's really funny 
This is getting messy so I am going to combine the points.
For the average street guy who wants to spend as little as possible and get the biggest HP/TQ numbers, the Mustang is better choice.
Before I explain my opinion, let me reiterate that I do not believe it is a better car. I don't. I do not even like them.
Here's why I believe it is the better choice for the average street guy who wants to spend as little as possible and get the biggest HP/TQ numbers.
- Straight off the showroom floor, it already puts down up to 440rwhp/tq.
- For a minor amount of money, they can add a pulley, change the intake, exhaust and tune to get 550rwhp/tq.
- They don't have to open up the engine to do this.
- They don't have to build a forged engine.
- They don't have to buy and install an expensive pair of heads.
- They don't have to install a camshaft, which requires the entire front rack to be removed on a Corvette. Easier on the 4th gen FBODS.
To get the same horsepower from a C6Z requires the following:
- LT headers
- Exhaust
- Intake
- Camshaft and possible head work
- Tune
Its a lot more complicated and costly. Do I understand that the C6Z is a superior car in every way? Yes. Do I understand it handles better? Yes.
MSRP for the GT500 is roughly $40k. I've seen dealer markup as high as $57k.
MSRP for C6Z is $70k. I have a picture of our local Chevy dealer with markup at $100k.
Right off the bat, there's a $30k difference if either can be had at MSRP. Then compare the difference in prices to get both cars up to 500rwhp. You're looking at roughly $4500 for the parts and labor for the above Z06. LG headers alone are $1,500 and that doesn't include installation. Add $500 for install. Camshaft install will be at least $1,200 with parts and labor. Intake will be about $400 and exhaust will be at least $600. Then add $300 for a tune.
I am not the Ford guru, but my good guess is that the pulley, exhaust, intake and tune could be done for around $1,500.
C6Z -> $70,000 + $4,500 = $74,500.
GT500 -> $40,000 + $1,500 = $41,500.
Its a no brainer if the following is true:
1. You like Mustangs.
2. You want brute street power and are not planning course racing.
3. You can't afford $74,500 worth of investment.
4. Are not willing to go into the engine and would prefer boltons.
How many people would like the above? I believe a LOT will. You don't.
So back to my original statement that got your panties in a bunch. For $41k, the GT500 will be the car to beat. Personally, I believe you have a little chip on your shoulders based on the fear that anything with a Blue Oval on its grille might smoke your Camaro/Corvette. Get over it.
Regarding the "LS7 is maxed out" statement, which also seems to have caused much wailing and gnashing of teeth: The mods such as exhaust, intake and cam are about the extent to which things can be done easily without getting into risky N20 or completely overhauling the engine to facilitate a Turbocharged application.
There seems to be far more options with the Stang's setup. If you want more than the above boltons, you can upgrade to a new SC for a few thousand dollars. Roush is selling one now that touts 700rwhp. Yikes!
Or you could do the same work you do on the LS7 such as different cams(although I haven't heard of many people doing this with the Stangs), better heads, headers, etc.
This is getting messy so I am going to combine the points.
For the average street guy who wants to spend as little as possible and get the biggest HP/TQ numbers, the Mustang is better choice.
Before I explain my opinion, let me reiterate that I do not believe it is a better car. I don't. I do not even like them.
Here's why I believe it is the better choice for the average street guy who wants to spend as little as possible and get the biggest HP/TQ numbers.
- Straight off the showroom floor, it already puts down up to 440rwhp/tq.
- For a minor amount of money, they can add a pulley, change the intake, exhaust and tune to get 550rwhp/tq.
- They don't have to open up the engine to do this.
- They don't have to build a forged engine.
- They don't have to buy and install an expensive pair of heads.
- They don't have to install a camshaft, which requires the entire front rack to be removed on a Corvette. Easier on the 4th gen FBODS.
To get the same horsepower from a C6Z requires the following:
- LT headers
- Exhaust
- Intake
- Camshaft and possible head work
- Tune
Its a lot more complicated and costly. Do I understand that the C6Z is a superior car in every way? Yes. Do I understand it handles better? Yes.
MSRP for the GT500 is roughly $40k. I've seen dealer markup as high as $57k.
MSRP for C6Z is $70k. I have a picture of our local Chevy dealer with markup at $100k.
Right off the bat, there's a $30k difference if either can be had at MSRP. Then compare the difference in prices to get both cars up to 500rwhp. You're looking at roughly $4500 for the parts and labor for the above Z06. LG headers alone are $1,500 and that doesn't include installation. Add $500 for install. Camshaft install will be at least $1,200 with parts and labor. Intake will be about $400 and exhaust will be at least $600. Then add $300 for a tune.
I am not the Ford guru, but my good guess is that the pulley, exhaust, intake and tune could be done for around $1,500.
C6Z -> $70,000 + $4,500 = $74,500.
GT500 -> $40,000 + $1,500 = $41,500.
Its a no brainer if the following is true:
1. You like Mustangs.
2. You want brute street power and are not planning course racing.
3. You can't afford $74,500 worth of investment.
4. Are not willing to go into the engine and would prefer boltons.
How many people would like the above? I believe a LOT will. You don't.
So back to my original statement that got your panties in a bunch. For $41k, the GT500 will be the car to beat. Personally, I believe you have a little chip on your shoulders based on the fear that anything with a Blue Oval on its grille might smoke your Camaro/Corvette. Get over it.
Regarding the "LS7 is maxed out" statement, which also seems to have caused much wailing and gnashing of teeth: The mods such as exhaust, intake and cam are about the extent to which things can be done easily without getting into risky N20 or completely overhauling the engine to facilitate a Turbocharged application.
There seems to be far more options with the Stang's setup. If you want more than the above boltons, you can upgrade to a new SC for a few thousand dollars. Roush is selling one now that touts 700rwhp. Yikes!
Or you could do the same work you do on the LS7 such as different cams(although I haven't heard of many people doing this with the Stangs), better heads, headers, etc.
11-02-2006, 09:44 PM
#63
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 318
Mostly yes....I haven't read 50...its more like 30. But I'll give the benefit of the doubt.
I consider that a bolton too. Are you talking intake manifold or exhaust manifold?
Agreed - cheap to manufacture, that is. Which is a testament to its popularity and applications.
Cheap to mod? Nope. Sorry guy. Ask people how much a H/C costs to have done on an LSx engine. Its FAAAR north of $1,500.
I am sorry...I didn't understand I had to ask your permission to decide what to talk about. I'll make a note to myself for next time
Of course. And people are free to vote as they please...and wear what want to wear...and listen to their favorite kind of music...and practice their religion.
What's your point?
Now this one made me laugh too...I love the old "people like yourself" comment.
Go back to your room.
MY PREDICTION: This thread is about 3 posts away from getting locked. And I also must admit that I am beginning to feel like an arrogant ***. But I can't help myself. Maybe the thread lock or permanent ban will do the trick.
A new manifold (some consider it a bolt on)would nett it more ponies again.
Anyway, the GM cam in block engine is cheap performance.
Cheap to mod? Nope. Sorry guy. Ask people how much a H/C costs to have done on an LSx engine. Its FAAAR north of $1,500.
No good pinning it down to this bolt on garbage.
People are free to modify their cars anyway they choose.
What's your point?
No matter what angle people like yourself tend to throw up meaningless arguments.
Go back to your room.
MY PREDICTION: This thread is about 3 posts away from getting locked. And I also must admit that I am beginning to feel like an arrogant ***. But I can't help myself. Maybe the thread lock or permanent ban will do the trick.
Last edited by greg_nate; 11-02-2006 at 09:48 PM.
11-03-2006, 03:23 AM
#64
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 3,123
Now this one made me laugh too...I love the old "people like yourself" comment.
Go back to your room.
MY PREDICTION: This thread is about 3 posts away from getting locked. And I also must admit that I am beginning to feel like an arrogant ***. But I can't help myself. Maybe the thread lock or permanent ban will do the trick.
Go back to your room.
MY PREDICTION: This thread is about 3 posts away from getting locked. And I also must admit that I am beginning to feel like an arrogant ***. But I can't help myself. Maybe the thread lock or permanent ban will do the trick.
YOU (yes, YOU) made that comment and you locked yourself in the toilet.
11-03-2006, 08:16 AM
#65
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Earleville, MD
Posts: 182
Here goes: Best bang for the buck. With simple boltons, guys are already getting 550rwhp from the Stang - and its only been out a couple of months !!!
Here's why I believe it is the better choice for the average street guy who wants to spend as little as possible and get the biggest HP/TQ numbers.
Here goes: Best bang for the buck. With simple boltons, guys are already getting 550rwhp from the Stang - and its only been out a couple of months !!!
You are not going to get 550rwhp with simple boltons from an LS1, an LS6, an LS2 or even an LS7. Even the allmighty LS7, which I agree is a rocking engine, requires a new camshaft to get to 500+rwhp mark in a Vette.
Guys are getting 550rwhp with 402s that include a big cam and a nice set of heads...but again, we are not talking boltons here. We are talking a complete new engine.
Here's why I believe it is the better choice for the average street guy who wants to spend as little as possible and get the biggest HP/TQ numbers.
Here goes: Best bang for the buck. With simple boltons, guys are already getting 550rwhp from the Stang - and its only been out a couple of months !!!
You are not going to get 550rwhp with simple boltons from an LS1, an LS6, an LS2 or even an LS7. Even the allmighty LS7, which I agree is a rocking engine, requires a new camshaft to get to 500+rwhp mark in a Vette.
Guys are getting 550rwhp with 402s that include a big cam and a nice set of heads...but again, we are not talking boltons here. We are talking a complete new engine.
You can't race dyno numbers.
You remind me of a lot of guys I used to see out at the car shows. They would put this big dyno sheet up in their windshield for everyone one to see. But once the show was over and it was money time those guys either disapeared real quick or just became friendly spectators.
You have to take the chassis into account along with the motor.
We still haven't seen how long these new GT500 motors will hold up to the hp levels either. If they start chucking rods, pistons or bearings there might be some very unhappy people out there.
They will need more than the 50rwhp difference to make up for the weight disadvantage.
11-03-2006, 09:51 AM
#66
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Brighton, IL
Posts: 694
I completely agree with greg_nate here. Unless GM puts a full forged blower motor in the next Camaro then the car to beat will remain the Terminator Cobra and the GT500. I find it odd that so many people find it hard to believe that an FI motor is easier to mod than a NA motor. Can you get a NA motor to make the same kind of power as an FI motor? Yes. No one's arguing that but its going to cost more as well as make the motor less streetable. A pulley and a tune takes about 20 minutes and $500 and nets you about 100 rwhp. Neither of which affect driveability. There is nothing that you can do to a NA motor to net similar gains in that time frame much less for that price. From what I have read that is all that greg_nate is trying to get across.
On a side note, why are some of you bringing into the argument the cost of the car itself? That's pointless. Does the guy who paid $18k for his '02 Camaro gonna cry foul if he gets beat by a guy that paid $33k for his '02 Camaro just because it cost more?
P.S. If you think that the next Camaro is going to weigh considerably less (300+ lbs) then either you are foolish or sadly mistaken. Which is yet another reason for GM to put a FI motor into the 5th gen.
On a side note, why are some of you bringing into the argument the cost of the car itself? That's pointless. Does the guy who paid $18k for his '02 Camaro gonna cry foul if he gets beat by a guy that paid $33k for his '02 Camaro just because it cost more?
P.S. If you think that the next Camaro is going to weigh considerably less (300+ lbs) then either you are foolish or sadly mistaken. Which is yet another reason for GM to put a FI motor into the 5th gen.
11-03-2006, 11:45 AM
#67
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 318
Look at my sig: Four Chevys - A 1st, 3rd and 4th gen Camaro and a Vette. All of them modded to some extent, two of them heavily modded.
Nowhere does it mention a Ford. Yet the responses to this thread seem to believe that I am some kind of Ford lover who is out to bash GM.
Just because I like Chevy doesn't mean I have to deny the good work put out by another manufacturer. I have first hand experience with what it takes to mod our platforms. Its no joy ride in comparison to the FI platforms. I've even raced a couple Cobras with the H/C Vette. I won both times, but it was very close - one of the Cobras was slightly modded, and the only reason I won was because we went deep into the triple digits. If we would have raced from a dig, he would have pulled me from the start, and I would not have been able to reel him in.
He had a pulley, tune and intake. He said it cost $1,200 total and took an afternoon to install. By comparison, I have spent several thousand on heads, cam, long tubes, exhaust, intake, ported TB, tranny work and a few tunes. All in all, my car has been in the shop several weeks for these upgrads. I won't mention the cost involved because compared to $1,200 its embarrasingly high.
I find it surprisingly odd as well.
[/quote]
Unfortunately, I have a feeling the 5th gen will be a heavy weight too. The new Zeta Holden which is the same platform the Camaro will be using weighs in at 3900 lbs. I don't think we're gonna get a featherweight Camaro guys.
Nowhere does it mention a Ford. Yet the responses to this thread seem to believe that I am some kind of Ford lover who is out to bash GM.
Just because I like Chevy doesn't mean I have to deny the good work put out by another manufacturer. I have first hand experience with what it takes to mod our platforms. Its no joy ride in comparison to the FI platforms. I've even raced a couple Cobras with the H/C Vette. I won both times, but it was very close - one of the Cobras was slightly modded, and the only reason I won was because we went deep into the triple digits. If we would have raced from a dig, he would have pulled me from the start, and I would not have been able to reel him in.
He had a pulley, tune and intake. He said it cost $1,200 total and took an afternoon to install. By comparison, I have spent several thousand on heads, cam, long tubes, exhaust, intake, ported TB, tranny work and a few tunes. All in all, my car has been in the shop several weeks for these upgrads. I won't mention the cost involved because compared to $1,200 its embarrasingly high.
I find it odd that so many people find it hard to believe that an FI motor is easier to mod than a NA motor. Can you get a NA motor to make the same kind of power as an FI motor? Yes. No one's arguing that but its going to cost more as well as make the motor less streetable. A pulley and a tune takes about 20 minutes and $500 and nets you about 100 rwhp. Neither of which affect driveability. There is nothing that you can do to a NA motor to net similar gains in that time frame much less for that price.
P.S. If you think that the next Camaro is going to weigh considerably less (300+ lbs) then either you are foolish or sadly mistaken. Which is yet another reason for GM to put a FI motor into the 5th gen.
Unfortunately, I have a feeling the 5th gen will be a heavy weight too. The new Zeta Holden which is the same platform the Camaro will be using weighs in at 3900 lbs. I don't think we're gonna get a featherweight Camaro guys.
11-03-2006, 04:00 PM
#68
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 279
Actually, that's really funny
This is getting messy so I am going to combine the points.
For the average street guy who wants to spend as little as possible and get the biggest HP/TQ numbers, the Mustang is better choice.
Before I explain my opinion, let me reiterate that I do not believe it is a better car. I don't. I do not even like them.
Here's why I believe it is the better choice for the average street guy who wants to spend as little as possible and get the biggest HP/TQ numbers.
- Straight off the showroom floor, it already puts down up to 440rwhp/tq.
- For a minor amount of money, they can add a pulley, change the intake, exhaust and tune to get 550rwhp/tq.
- They don't have to open up the engine to do this.
- They don't have to build a forged engine.
- They don't have to buy and install an expensive pair of heads.
- They don't have to install a camshaft, which requires the entire front rack to be removed on a Corvette. Easier on the 4th gen FBODS.
To get the same horsepower from a C6Z requires the following:
- LT headers
- Exhaust
- Intake
- Camshaft and possible head work
- Tune
Its a lot more complicated and costly. Do I understand that the C6Z is a superior car in every way? Yes. Do I understand it handles better? Yes.
MSRP for the GT500 is roughly $40k. I've seen dealer markup as high as $57k.
MSRP for C6Z is $70k. I have a picture of our local Chevy dealer with markup at $100k.
Right off the bat, there's a $30k difference if either can be had at MSRP. Then compare the difference in prices to get both cars up to 500rwhp. You're looking at roughly $4500 for the parts and labor for the above Z06. LG headers alone are $1,500 and that doesn't include installation. Add $500 for install. Camshaft install will be at least $1,200 with parts and labor. Intake will be about $400 and exhaust will be at least $600. Then add $300 for a tune.
I am not the Ford guru, but my good guess is that the pulley, exhaust, intake and tune could be done for around $1,500.
C6Z -> $70,000 + $4,500 = $74,500.
GT500 -> $40,000 + $1,500 = $41,500.
Its a no brainer if the following is true:
1. You like Mustangs.
2. You want brute street power and are not planning course racing.
3. You can't afford $74,500 worth of investment.
4. Are not willing to go into the engine and would prefer boltons.
How many people would like the above? I believe a LOT will. You don't.
So back to my original statement that got your panties in a bunch. For $41k, the GT500 will be the car to beat. Personally, I believe you have a little chip on your shoulders based on the fear that anything with a Blue Oval on its grille might smoke your Camaro/Corvette. Get over it.
Regarding the "LS7 is maxed out" statement, which also seems to have caused much wailing and gnashing of teeth: The mods such as exhaust, intake and cam are about the extent to which things can be done easily without getting into risky N20 or completely overhauling the engine to facilitate a Turbocharged application.
There seems to be far more options with the Stang's setup. If you want more than the above boltons, you can upgrade to a new SC for a few thousand dollars. Roush is selling one now that touts 700rwhp. Yikes!
Or you could do the same work you do on the LS7 such as different cams(although I haven't heard of many people doing this with the Stangs), better heads, headers, etc.
This is getting messy so I am going to combine the points.
For the average street guy who wants to spend as little as possible and get the biggest HP/TQ numbers, the Mustang is better choice.
Before I explain my opinion, let me reiterate that I do not believe it is a better car. I don't. I do not even like them.
Here's why I believe it is the better choice for the average street guy who wants to spend as little as possible and get the biggest HP/TQ numbers.
- Straight off the showroom floor, it already puts down up to 440rwhp/tq.
- For a minor amount of money, they can add a pulley, change the intake, exhaust and tune to get 550rwhp/tq.
- They don't have to open up the engine to do this.
- They don't have to build a forged engine.
- They don't have to buy and install an expensive pair of heads.
- They don't have to install a camshaft, which requires the entire front rack to be removed on a Corvette. Easier on the 4th gen FBODS.
To get the same horsepower from a C6Z requires the following:
- LT headers
- Exhaust
- Intake
- Camshaft and possible head work
- Tune
Its a lot more complicated and costly. Do I understand that the C6Z is a superior car in every way? Yes. Do I understand it handles better? Yes.
MSRP for the GT500 is roughly $40k. I've seen dealer markup as high as $57k.
MSRP for C6Z is $70k. I have a picture of our local Chevy dealer with markup at $100k.
Right off the bat, there's a $30k difference if either can be had at MSRP. Then compare the difference in prices to get both cars up to 500rwhp. You're looking at roughly $4500 for the parts and labor for the above Z06. LG headers alone are $1,500 and that doesn't include installation. Add $500 for install. Camshaft install will be at least $1,200 with parts and labor. Intake will be about $400 and exhaust will be at least $600. Then add $300 for a tune.
I am not the Ford guru, but my good guess is that the pulley, exhaust, intake and tune could be done for around $1,500.
C6Z -> $70,000 + $4,500 = $74,500.
GT500 -> $40,000 + $1,500 = $41,500.
Its a no brainer if the following is true:
1. You like Mustangs.
2. You want brute street power and are not planning course racing.
3. You can't afford $74,500 worth of investment.
4. Are not willing to go into the engine and would prefer boltons.
How many people would like the above? I believe a LOT will. You don't.
So back to my original statement that got your panties in a bunch. For $41k, the GT500 will be the car to beat. Personally, I believe you have a little chip on your shoulders based on the fear that anything with a Blue Oval on its grille might smoke your Camaro/Corvette. Get over it.
Regarding the "LS7 is maxed out" statement, which also seems to have caused much wailing and gnashing of teeth: The mods such as exhaust, intake and cam are about the extent to which things can be done easily without getting into risky N20 or completely overhauling the engine to facilitate a Turbocharged application.
There seems to be far more options with the Stang's setup. If you want more than the above boltons, you can upgrade to a new SC for a few thousand dollars. Roush is selling one now that touts 700rwhp. Yikes!
Or you could do the same work you do on the LS7 such as different cams(although I haven't heard of many people doing this with the Stangs), better heads, headers, etc.
For the "average guy" who wants to go fast on a budget, he wouldn't consider the GT500 in the first place because it's a pig at almost 4000 pounds. People are struggling to get them into the 12s stock because of the weight and the torque management.
The "average guy" that you have in your scenario wouldn't even consider the Z06. So why are you comparing the two? The average guy that you describe would actually be better off buying an old Foxbody and putting $10k into it to make it a 10 second car.
And who cares if you can put out 550 rwhp in the GT500 with just a few simple bolt-ons? The Z06 doesn't NEED 550 rwhp to hang with the GT500 because of the huge weight difference. It would only need 480 or 490 rwhp, and you can get that with a simple tune.
Actually forget dyno numbers - what's the fastest a GT500 has ran bone stock? Someone has already gotten a 11.2 @ 127 out of a bone stock Z06, and 11.0 @ 128 on a tire. You'll see 10 second Z06s in the next few months here that are stock with just a tune or just a DR. How much $$$ would it take to get a pig like the GT500 into the 10s?
I just think it's silly to compare the two. The Mustang isn't in the same league as the Z06, and the bottom line is that you have to spend money to make it as fast as a Z06 and at the end of the day it's still a POS Mustang.
11-04-2006, 05:18 PM
#72
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
Posts: 5,308
For the "average guy" who wants to go fast on a budget, he wouldn't consider the GT500 in the first place because it's a pig at almost 4000 pounds. People are struggling to get them into the 12s stock because of the weight and the torque management.
And who cares if you can put out 550 rwhp in the GT500 with just a few simple bolt-ons? The Z06 doesn't NEED 550 rwhp to hang with the GT500 because of the huge weight difference. It would only need 480 or 490 rwhp, and you can get that with a simple tune.
Actually forget dyno numbers - what's the fastest a GT500 has ran bone stock? Someone has already gotten a 11.2 @ 127 out of a bone stock Z06, and 11.0 @ 128 on a tire. You'll see 10 second Z06s in the next few months here that are stock with just a tune or just a DR. How much $$$ would it take to get a pig like the GT500 into the 10s?
And who cares if you can put out 550 rwhp in the GT500 with just a few simple bolt-ons? The Z06 doesn't NEED 550 rwhp to hang with the GT500 because of the huge weight difference. It would only need 480 or 490 rwhp, and you can get that with a simple tune.
Actually forget dyno numbers - what's the fastest a GT500 has ran bone stock? Someone has already gotten a 11.2 @ 127 out of a bone stock Z06, and 11.0 @ 128 on a tire. You'll see 10 second Z06s in the next few months here that are stock with just a tune or just a DR. How much $$$ would it take to get a pig like the GT500 into the 10s?
. But it wasn't "cheap", and it wasn't "easy" either 
. Certainly wasn't ~$1200 pulley & tune = 10 second GT500 
.There have been some good arguments in this thread, and there isn't really a "right side" or "wrong side" to things ... it's differing opinions and perspectives IMO
.Greg Nate, I hear a lot of what you're saying, but you can't make a blanket statement like "the 2007 GT500 is going to be the car to beat" and expect people to leave it alone!?
If you want to talk about "bang for the buck", well, I'm not arguing that the FI isn't a good route, but good "bang for the buck" could be a used LS1 or a used '03/'04 Cobra? And if you simply want the "car to beat", then budget and complexity of mods goes out the window ... if a full scale, forged re-build is required before supercharging an LSx engine, then so be it. The end result will still (IMO) blow away the competition. But just because the Ford doesn't require (initial) forging before it can go bumping up boost with a pulley, doesn't mean it's the end all, be all of "Car to Beat" .At the end of the day, if the 5th-gen comes out NA, then we all know what the options are for pumping out more power, even if simply "bolt-on" isn't the answer. But if we get a 6.2 L FI motor ... great! I hope GM does their homework and builds the short-block strong enough to handle GT500 ***-kicking power!!
11-04-2006, 05:49 PM
#73
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 279
Well, the Evolution boys already had a lot of time & money sunk into their GT 500, and they were only JUST into the 11's (11.81 at that point). Then they put more work and parts into the car, and I believe they finally got into the 10's . But it wasn't "cheap", and it wasn't "easy" either . Certainly wasn't ~$1200 pulley & tune = 10 second GT500 .
There have been some good arguments in this thread, and there isn't really a "right side" or "wrong side" to things ... it's differing opinions and perspectives IMO.
Greg Nate, I hear a lot of what you're saying, but you can't make a blanket statement like "the 2007 GT500 is going to be the car to beat" and expect people to leave it alone!? If you want to talk about "bang for the buck", well, I'm not arguing that the FI isn't a good route, but good "bang for the buck" could be a used LS1 or a used '03/'04 Cobra? And if you simply want the "car to beat", then budget and complexity of mods goes out the window ... if a full scale, forged re-build is required before supercharging an LSx engine, then so be it. The end result will still (IMO) blow away the competition. But just because the Ford doesn't require (initial) forging before it can go bumping up boost with a pulley, doesn't mean it's the end all, be all of "Car to Beat" .
At the end of the day, if the 5th-gen comes out NA, then we all know what the options are for pumping out more power, even if simply "bolt-on" isn't the answer. But if we get a 6.2 L FI motor ... great! I hope GM does their homework and builds the short-block strong enough to handle GT500 ***-kicking power!!
. But it wasn't "cheap", and it wasn't "easy" either . Certainly wasn't ~$1200 pulley & tune = 10 second GT500 .There have been some good arguments in this thread, and there isn't really a "right side" or "wrong side" to things ... it's differing opinions and perspectives IMO
.Greg Nate, I hear a lot of what you're saying, but you can't make a blanket statement like "the 2007 GT500 is going to be the car to beat" and expect people to leave it alone!?
If you want to talk about "bang for the buck", well, I'm not arguing that the FI isn't a good route, but good "bang for the buck" could be a used LS1 or a used '03/'04 Cobra? And if you simply want the "car to beat", then budget and complexity of mods goes out the window ... if a full scale, forged re-build is required before supercharging an LSx engine, then so be it. The end result will still (IMO) blow away the competition. But just because the Ford doesn't require (initial) forging before it can go bumping up boost with a pulley, doesn't mean it's the end all, be all of "Car to Beat" .At the end of the day, if the 5th-gen comes out NA, then we all know what the options are for pumping out more power, even if simply "bolt-on" isn't the answer. But if we get a 6.2 L FI motor ... great! I hope GM does their homework and builds the short-block strong enough to handle GT500 ***-kicking power!!
11-09-2006, 10:03 AM
#75
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 273
Actually forget dyno numbers - what's the fastest a GT500 has ran bone stock? Someone has already gotten a 11.2 @ 127 out of a bone stock Z06, and 11.0 @ 128 on a tire. You'll see 10 second Z06s in the next few months here that are stock with just a tune or just a DR. How much $$$ would it take to get a pig like the GT500 into the 10s?
I just think it's silly to compare the two. The Mustang isn't in the same league as the Z06, and the bottom line is that you have to spend money to make it as fast as a Z06 and at the end of the day it's still a POS Mustang.
I just think it's silly to compare the two. The Mustang isn't in the same league as the Z06, and the bottom line is that you have to spend money to make it as fast as a Z06 and at the end of the day it's still a POS Mustang.
Last edited by JP2005; 11-09-2006 at 10:10 AM.