Alright, let's try one more time...there's nothing to tool if you're taking an existing engine and putting it in an existing car.

And I don't think GM has the luxury of writing off customers as irrelevant idiots nowadays. I know the Japs don't.

 

No, let's not.

I could try explaining the facts to you surrounding the idea that doing something as "simple" as dropping an LS7 into a Camaro involves a whole LOT of investment, not to mention the piece price increase due to the way the motor is built and the components within it...

But it'd just be a waste of time.

You go ahead and believe what you want.




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That applies to more than just Charlie. Everyone should keep that in mind.

People who want four seats in their muscle car are idiots?

I love Corvettes, and I love Camaros too. Given the choice (and the finances), I'd buy a Z28 and a Corvette. Would that make me an idiot?

 

#1) People buy what fits. Some people cannot or do not want a two seater car because they want to take more than just one passenger period. (<---that was a little redundant wasn't it?)

#2) I want to humor the idea of an LS7 in a Z-28 so lets do a little comparison exercise assuming the following.

-7.0L blocks are already in supply and will cost no more than an LS3 block.
-It will be built with the same quality components that will be going into the LS3 already in production
-It will be built along side the LS3 in the same manor and fashion.
-LS3 heads will be used with little change other than LS7 Springs and retainers.
-The only real difference will be the short block assuming that every other part will be LS3 spec.

So my first question is this, what are the specs of of the rotating assemblies for both motors i.e. what are the differences in cranks, rod lengths, and piston diameters.

 

Hey, I'd love an LS7. But to get that magic 7 liter displacement requires a vey expensive block.

 

if im not mistaken the ls3 and ls9 share most stuff.. the ls7 is kinda unique.. or so i believe.. correct me if im wrong on that..
so that being said, would the ls3 heads even work on the ls7?

 

Can't assume that. Because the LS3 is higher volume, it pays off tooling faster than the LS7. Second, because of the VERY low line rate for the LS7, additional investment would be required to add additional volume - which it can't pay off as fast as the LS3 can.


LS7's have different pistons, titanium rods and a different crank - $$$.



Can't be without investment... again, investment it can't pay down as fast. The LS3 line will be highly automated, the LS7 line is not. Automation doesn't like added complexity - it is ideally suited to putting together one variant, very fast, with very little human input.


See above. The two really costly differences are the rods and crank, although the LS7 does have a different bore (4.125" vs. 4.060").

Other differences:

Much greater lift cam in the LS7...
Bigger valves in the LS7, and they're also titanium on the intake side ($$$).
LS7 heads have CNC machined ports.

 

If "work" means bolt up (with some attendant mods...), then yes.

They have a significant problem though...

LS7's have much more valve lift, and spin faster. The valve train in the LS3 would float at the RPM's the LS7 can turn with ease, and then some valves would have "up close and personal" encounters with some pistons.

 

I think that some people here think "LS7" is an appropriate term for any 427ci LS engine. Others here clearly know that is not the case. An LS7 is a specific engine, and it only comes one way. That's the way it comes in the Z06.

A non-LS7 427 (perhaps without all of the titanium bits or the forged crank, and with a lower redline due to those changes) isn't feasible because it wouldn't be high-enough volume to warrant building a production line for it -- it wouldn't pay itself off before the engine itself was outdated. I'm guessing such an engine would make 450-475hp, which simply isn't enough of a power advantage over the LS3 to make it worthwhile from the consumer standpoint.

The actual LS7 seems to be the best option if we stay NA. No new development -- just increase production capacity. GM sold about 7,000 Z06's in 2007, and I think it's safe to assume that Z28 would sell in similar (probably smaller) numbers. Accordingly, GM Powertrain would need to double the pace. Doubling the build rate of a hand-built, CNC-machined engine probably means doubling the number of people building them, and doubling the number of CNC mills. Neither of those things seem entirely out of the question.

So, LS7 makes some sense.

But then, look at the LSA. It's maybe 200 pounds heavier, but it makes 52 more horsepower and it's already being built on an automated production line. It also costs less, which leaves more money on the table for a carbon fiber hood and forged wheels to offset some of the weight. That's one heck of a business case!

 

It honestly does look like the best option.

Those of us who want to go straight, VERY quickly, would also appreciate the "factory forced induction" aspect of the motor.




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Give it up. The Z06 is about $25,000 more than a base Corvette coupe. GM just announced a $15.5 billion loss for second quarter. A big dog Z28 Camaro is not very important to GM right now or in the near future.

 

Does not compute.

A Z28 would be the most profitable of all the Camaros (like the Z06 is and ZR1 will be for Corvette). Profit is extremely important to GM right now.

 

And a big dog Z28 Camaro would steal sales from the Z06 and ZR1.

 

That is debateable considering all that goes into making a stout 550 HP car. And it isn't like they're going to build 50,000 of these Z28s a year. Ok, they might be the most profitable on a per-unit basis but if there will only be 5,000/year who cares? The development of the car might negate any profit from it.

I SERIOUSLY don't think a guy who walks into a Chevy dealer looking to buy a $70,000 or $100,000 Corvette has much interest in walking out with a Camaro.

 

This is what I do for a living. The investment you're talking about is a new clean air tube, new exhaust manifolds, a few brackets, and calibration of the new package. It's the lowest possible investment you could get away with for a new variant of a vehicle. It's considered negligible.

All the unique engine parts you're talking about...connecting rods, pistons, etc. ...are purchased from suppliers. No investment to buy more.

And just to clarify...this is not a $15k engine. It's $15k if for a crate engine. You don't want my estimate of what this engine really costs GM to make, because you'd puke. Let's put it this way...when GM sells a Z06, they're not losing money.

And when Ford sells a GT500, they're not losing money, either.

A GT500 customer is a lost GM customer.