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Could the Camaro SSbe short lived?

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Old Apr 29, 2009 | 10:06 AM
  #1  
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Could the Camaro SSbe short lived?

Theres a artical on AOl about the future of proformance cars. Here is a small part of it.

Disappearing Cars

In a move largely seen as giving in to Washington, General Motors recently closed it High Performance Vehicles division. The HPV team was largely responsible for GM's most exciting cars including the Cadillac CTS-V and the Chevrolet Corvette ZR1.

Bureaucrats have little use for performance-oriented V-8 powered cars, so don't expect cars like the Chevy Corvette, Dodge Viper, Chevrolet Camaro SS, or Dodge Challenger R/T to survive long term. Their survival is no longer tied to customer demand, but to the demands of the government that now controls the product portfolios and development dollars at GM and Chrysler. Recently, GM announced it was killing its Pontiac brand, a concept that seemed to define performance all by itself some decades ago. Now that brand is gone.

Heres a link to the full artical . I don't know if everyone will be able to see it if they don't have AOL

http://autos.aol.com/article/car-new...se/20090429001
Old Apr 29, 2009 | 10:27 AM
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Well i think theres always a demand for sports cars... I dont think GM will completely closed it down. I think they will go back to there drawing table and either make a smaller engine with same power or keep the V8 and try to get more mpg..

I just read an article as well, but for bmw. Stating that the new coming up M3 and M1 or m-series, will reduce there engine size. they mentioned that the next m3 will go back to a V6, not sure if its inline 6 or 6 turbo, but it will produce almost 400hp. while giving them good mpg. the m1 on the other hand will be a V4, they didnt say if it was a turbo, but it will produce 300hp.. Now they also mention all there cars would cut down as much weight as they can to be able to compete with others. And out put that power..

So my point is. Its not only american cars suffering but all over the world. And thats an approach that GM can take, like bmw to be able to keep there sport cars up to date with the economy. So my answer is "No" sports cars wont go away.. As long as people are buying cars.
Old Apr 29, 2009 | 10:44 AM
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Chicken Little speculation by the author.

GM closed the HPV division late last year. They had nothing to do with Camaro.
Old Apr 29, 2009 | 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jg95z28
They had nothing to do with Camaro.
You think Heinricy had no say on the Camaro during its developement? He had a voice in the conversation.
Old Apr 29, 2009 | 12:16 PM
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thats BS. basically now that they got bailed out, it doesnt matter what the people want, its what the govt. wants/feels is right. BS!
Old Apr 29, 2009 | 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by ChrisL
You think Heinricy had no say on the Camaro during its developement? He had a voice in the conversation.
I'm not saying he didn't Chris. The original poster is speculating that the Camaro SS will be short lived because HPV division was closed. Perhaps a more correct response would have been that the Camaro SS was not a HPV divison product.
Old Apr 29, 2009 | 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jg95z28
I'm not saying he didn't Chris. The original poster is speculating that the Camaro SS will be short lived because HPV division was closed. Perhaps a more correct response would have been that the Camaro SS was not a HPV divison product.
i believe thats from the article he got it from. i dont think those are his beliefs.
Old Apr 29, 2009 | 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 2010_5thgen
i believe thats from the article he got it from.
Partially correct; in the article, the author implies that the two are related. The original poster takes it to the next level and asked the question, "Could the Camaro SS be short lived?"
Originally Posted by 2010_5thgen
i dont think those are his beliefs.
Then why ask the question?
Old Apr 29, 2009 | 01:33 PM
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Just wait until the government adds ANOTHER tax for people driving V8 driven vehicles, SUVs and sports cars. Yippy!

Kevin Webb
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Old Apr 29, 2009 | 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jg95z28
Partially correct; in the article, the author implies that the two are related. The original poster takes it to the next level and asked the question, "Could the Camaro SS be short lived?"

Then why ask the question?
With the upcoming CAFE standard of 35 MPG, Even the current 6 cyl camaro won't make the grade. The people on here who doubt that SS might go either are too young or don't remember the 70's. I'm sure there were plenty of people in 72 who thought that the LS6 Chevelle and Hemi Cudas weren't going anywhere too. Goverment regulations killed off the muscle car then and that was without gov ownership in the manufaturers. The camaro and corvette did survive ( if you want to call a 190 hp corvette surviving). You can stick your head in the sand and think nothing will change and a V8 camaro will always be around. But remember that history has a way of repeating. Just take the artical for what it's worth.
Old Apr 29, 2009 | 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Harleyinnc
With the upcoming CAFE standard of 35 MPG, Even the current 6 cyl camaro won't make the grade. The people on here who doubt that SS might go either are too young or don't remember the 70's. I'm sure there were plenty of people in 72 who thought that the LS6 Chevelle and Hemi Cudas weren't going anywhere too. Goverment regulations killed off the muscle car then and that was without gov ownership in the manufaturers. The camaro and corvette did survive ( if you want to call a 190 hp corvette surviving). You can stick your head in the sand and think nothing will change and a V8 camaro will always be around. But remember that history has a way of repeating. Just take the artical for what it's worth.
I'm old enough to remember the 1970s.

FWIW, the 2010 LS3 Camaro has more horsepower than the 1972 LS6 Chevelle and Hemi Cudas ever did. Musclecars are not dead; they have evolved. The energy crisis was supposed to have killed the musclecar, and we now know that didn't happen. As long as mankind is driving on 4-wheels, there will be enthusiasts who want and desire performance. Musclecars will adapt and evolve to the next level. People throw around the upcoming 35mpg ave CAFE requirements as being the deathblow to musclecars just like folks back in the 1970s did about emissions requirements, yet musclecars somehow survived. Heck most cars and trucks manufactured today would fail the 35mpg CAFE model.

The evolutionary progress of technology will adapt. I'm not sticking my head in the sand, I'm opening my mind to the possibilities of our automotive future and simply not wearing a tinfoil hat and waiting for the sky to fall.
Old Apr 29, 2009 | 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jg95z28
I'm old enough to remember the 1970s.

FWIW, the 2010 LS3 Camaro has more horsepower than the 1972 LS6 Chevelle and Hemi Cudas ever did. Musclecars are not dead; they have evolved. The energy crisis was supposed to have killed the musclecar, and we now know that didn't happen. As long as mankind is driving on 4-wheels, there will be enthusiasts who want and desire performance. Musclecars will adapt and evolve to the next level. People throw around the upcoming 35mpg ave CAFE requirements as being the deathblow to musclecars just like folks back in the 1970s did about emissions requirements, yet musclecars somehow survived. Heck most cars and trucks manufactured today would fail the 35mpg CAFE model.

The evolutionary progress of technology will adapt. I'm not sticking my head in the sand, I'm opening my mind to the possibilities of our automotive future and simply not wearing a tinfoil hat and waiting for the sky to fall.
How long did it take for the true muscle car to return? It wasn't till the 4th Gen camaros and firebirds showed up for the real horsepower wars to start up again. So there was a 20 year period when there were no true muscle cars. I guess you didn't go to the website and read the FULL artical. What I posted on here was just a small part of it.
Old Apr 29, 2009 | 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Harleyinnc
How long did it take for the true muscle car to return? It wasn't till the 4th Gen camaros and firebirds showed up for the real horsepower wars to start up again. So there was a 20 year period when there were no true muscle cars.
It didn't take that long. Things bottomed out in the late 70s and early 80s, but by 1982 things were on an upswing and by the mid 80s the Mustang, Camaro, and Firebird were pretty darn quick again. A 1987 Mustang LX 5.0 or a 305 TPI or L98 Camaro or Firebird will be faster than 90% of the "Muscle Cars" produced in the actual muscle car era and they are much better handlers.

So the Muscle Cars didn't take all that long to return to their previous level of performance. By the mid 90s, with the introduction of the LT1, the F-Bodies were freakin' supercars by 1980s standards and faster than pretty much any previous regular production F-Body Ever.
Old Apr 29, 2009 | 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric77TA
It didn't take that long. Things bottomed out in the late 70s and early 80s, but by 1982 things were on an upswing and by the mid 80s the Mustang, Camaro, and Firebird were pretty darn quick again. A 1987 Mustang LX 5.0 or a 305 TPI or L98 Camaro or Firebird will be faster than 90% of the "Muscle Cars" produced in the actual muscle car era and they are much better handlers.

So the Muscle Cars didn't take all that long to return to their previous level of performance. By the mid 90s, with the introduction of the LT1, the F-Bodies were freakin' supercars by 1980s standards and faster than pretty much any previous regular production F-Body Ever.
Thanks for backing me up Eric. Others obviously haven't completed some of the required reading on this website...

Mythbusting Part 1: Fuel Economy standards will doom pony & performance cars
Mythbusting Part 2: The death of performance in the 1970s

Old Apr 29, 2009 | 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jg95z28
Thanks for backing me up Eric. Others obviously haven't completed some of the required reading on this website...

Mythbusting Part 1: Fuel Economy standards will doom pony & performance cars
Mythbusting Part 2: The death of performance in the 1970s

First of all READ THE FULL ARTICAL on the website! Second, as far as Eric backing you up, Here are some horsepower numbers for the mustangs he pointed out. The 82 mustang 5.0 had 157 HP. The 87 LX he mentioned has a whole 225 HP and a 93 mustang cobra had the most since the early 70's with 235 HP. Camaros from that time period were no better with the L98 maxing out at 240 HP.I wouldn't call these muscle car numbers. I would have put my old 69 camaro SS up against any of them and would have kicked there butts.



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