Rage

Those LS1 times seem more like LT1 times to me. 13.3 is about right for the LS1. I have several friends with LS1's and they all ran mid to low 13's stock.

SunsetHawkSelena

pony cars are pony cars and the traditional competition will always be the Mustang, but we all know that there are a LOT of cars out there competing with the mighty Camaro. frankly, i don't care what other cars are out there in it's market segment, cuz the only one i'm buying is CAMARO!

and as far as the 4th gen LS1s are concerned... i am a drag strip junkie and i much rather look at my experience than what anyone else "tells" me. you know what they say, believe some of what you see and none of what you hear...

with that said, a stock auto with 2.73 gears (standard) will run high 13's all day long. i have seen many at our local drag strip do the same and my 2002 formula was a testament to that (13.8-13.9 consistently). it wasn't a ringer car and dyno'd 290 HP to the rear wheels in stock form. it was the slowest stock 4th gen i've owned.

a stock auto with 3.23 gears (optional) will run mid 13's all day long. i have seen many at our local drag strip do the same and my husband's old 99 Z28 was a testament to that (13.4-13.5 consistently). i don't think he ever dyno'd that car tho.

there also isn't any tangible difference in running times from base model V8's to high-end V8's no matter what anyone tells you. an SS is not faster than a Z stock for stock. i have NEVER seen that happen. maybe a tenth, but that's so insignificant it could be driver related.

my 2002 firehawk with 3.42's and a six-speed ran a best of 13.3 in stock form. and i have seen many other stock six-speeds run low 13's with decent driving. i have even seen some hit high 12's, but that is with one of those crazy bastards behind the wheel that really knows how to drive. that's not as common, but it's not imposible either. most six-speeds will range from low-to-mid 13's depending on the driver.

however, i have NEVER NEVER NEVER seen a stock LS1 fbody run a 14 second pass (unless the tires went up in smoke or someone missed a gear), but on any run where the car hooked you were guaranteed a 13 second pass.

i have been drag racing at the local tracks since i was 19 (1998) and that was also the time when LS1's ruled the tracks. i have seen many races and run many myself and if you can show me a 4th gen that runs 14's on a good run (not a botched one), i'll give you $100.

don't forget, GM is also famous for underrating their horsepower. it is a well-known fact that all those LS1's that were rated at 305, 320, etc were dynoing that and more to the rear wheels instead of to the flywheel. so it's not surprising to me that the cars are running what they do. i think most magazines just punch a formula into a computer to come up with their 1/4 mile times. but that's just a guess, cuz if they were driving the cars i know they would have a different outcome.

PS i have also run 2 350Z's on the street (i know, bad girl) but they were revving to me and asking for it. and i beat both by about 2-3 car lengths in my Hawk which is stock except for a cutout.

out in the real world it's put up or shut up. and for me that is the best way to determine who's the top dog and who's all bark and no bite and i'm confident the new Camaro will not merely hold its own, but blow the competition's doors off like it always has

Robert_Nashville

I have to disagree; whether Nissan will hit the mark or not, the GT-R it aimed at an entirely different and more affluent audience than the Camaro and I would suggest that there will be very, very little cross-shopping between the Camaro and the GT-R.

I would suggest that those who routinely buy/would buy from Chevrolet, Dodge and Ford cars of similar configuration/price point are the real competition for the Camaro (at least if we are talking about who will buy the car)…performance measurements are one thing and you can bring many vehicles into the picture but once you are beyond raw performance it’s another matter.

Some individuals will, of course, but most of those who will buy a GT-R, Infiniti, Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, Acura or Lexus are probably not going to consider a Camaro, Mustang, Challenger or Charger when they are shopping.

Robert_Nashville

SunsetHawkSelena;

Sorry, you can claim personal experience all you want and that along with $3.50 will get you a coffee at Starbucks.

That aside, the 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 tenths (depending on who you believe) of a second 1/4 time differences being argued about here are not the holy grail of automotive performance for many people - not everybody who buys a car is interested only in stop light to stop light or 1/4 mile runs.

Ken S

4th gen's routinely beat out many cars in SCCA T2 roadracing, WITH an air restrictor.

Unless they really mess something up with the 5th gen, raw laptimes around a roadcourse will probably be outstanding.

The "feedback and feel" though? who knows.

Robert_Nashville

True but I don't think anybody is questioing that an F-body can be fast. However, when you start talking about SCCA club racing, even the T2 group, you are dealing with modifications from stock which is a bit off the point of the thread or what has been discussed up to this point.

99SilverSS

Well again my point is leave the magazines on the shelf which includes the MSRP. Remember that is a suggested price. Also too when I walked into a Chevy dealer in early 2002 and ordered a Z28 you get some incentives and with a little talking, prior Chevy owner and customer of that dealer you can get the price down. Not to mention GM was giving out 0% financing at that time too. So is my experience the norm, maybe or maybe not.

Let me also say the reason we always compare 1/4 times and 0-60 or top speed is because its easy to benchmark those figures. Even you with the magazine in hand can bench race the 350Z vs. F430 if you want. But to compare handling you really need to be at the same track. I won't even specify at the same day or time.

So I'm sorry again that the 350Z's apparent strong point (handling) isn't very well documented or comparable. And maybe your looking in the wrong place for respect for the car you like but this is a Camaro site. To me the 350Z is a great car but I've driven them and they are not a Camaro and thats what we like here. It seems to be a higher priced car with a bit less performance straight line or whatever. So maybe you would have better luck defending them on a Nissan site.

Robert_Nashville

Duplicated; sorry!

Robert_Nashville

”Incentives” come and go and trying to compare the purchase price of a new vehicle based on anything other than MSRP is a fool’s errand. Do you think a Chevy dealer is the only kind of dealer that offers a “deal” on the cars the dealership sells? For that matter, do you really want to crow about “incentives” offered on a Camaro to get them to sell?

MSRP is not a matter of "magazines"; it’s a matter of the price stated by the manufacturer, knowledge of which is fully and equally available to anybody who wants to know and is the only consistent basis on which to compare relative prices of vehicles. As to your assertion that the Z is overpriced, even in 2007, you can buy a 350Z for the same or less as a similarly equipped Z/28 sold for five years ago which means the assertion about the Z being higher priced is simply wrong. Yes, you can pay quite a lot of money for a 350Z if you want to go crazy but no more so than you could spend on a Z/28 or SS in 2002 if you wanted go just as crazy.

So long as the "figures" support your opinion, apparently.

The 350’s handling is well documented – you just don’t want to admit it since it challenges your opinion about it. As I said in earlier posts in this thread, I have owned and competed in both a 2000 Z/28 and a 2004 350Z in dozens of Solo2 events and hotlaps around our superspeedway – based on my own experience and my own course/lap times my 350Z (stock) is faster on both the autocross course and the speedway than my Z/28 was (also stock) and, even though you don’t like the sources, every published source supports that admittedly personal experience.

I understand this is a Camaro/GM site and I understand the desire to defend the Camaro but some of you are “defending” it when no assault has been launched against it! All that’s been said is that the 350Z is, on a price and performance basis, on par with the Z/28 which is a true statement even though we can argue about specific ¼ mile times, and 0-60 and skid pad, etc, etc. forever.

I’ve also said, several times now, that I don’t consider the 350Z to be market competition with the Camaro which was the original question in the thread…they are different vehicles with quite different configurations and aimed at a different market segment…some crossover, yes but not a direct competitor any more than the Z4/S2000/or Boxster is direct competition for the Camaro.

Finally, continuing to wine about and deride all magazines as being wrong and biased doesn’t make the assertion any more valid.

GRNcamaro

my thoughts are that competition of a car is what other cars people will consider when looking at a car. for that camaro it will be the mustang and the challenger. i dont think the 350z would fit here would some people consider it yes, will most probly not.

i have always thought people buying muscel cars were more concerend about going fast in a strait line then around a track . but what do i know becuase i think comparing a camaro to a 350z stupid to.

T56LS102

Im surprised no one has brought up the evo that is going to be right there with the new Camaro

Robert_Nashville

The Evo is a fairly impressive vehicle but certianly a very different car in many respects than the Camaro...I guess it all depends on what one means by "competition".

T56LS102

True but the evo X that is coming out the same time the camaro will be out and will also have over 300 HP.

You will be looking at two low 13 sec cars
just one will handle a lot better then the other!

Dest98

blue 79 Z/28

neither is autocrossing cones in a parking lot where smaller, nimble shopping carts win put these cars on a real race course and comapire. to the nurburgring!!!