$50 grand* for a Camaro. Is that a good thing?
09-30-2010, 01:55 PM
#16
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I'm all for the concept of a halo car. I'd rather see a halo in the same vein as the Z06 though, that is as not a limited production item for collectors. Yes, Z06 has got the better stuff, and it costs more, but it's volume is only limited by the number of buyers who want it. I don't know what it's current volume is, but there was a time when Z06 sales accounted for 25% of all Corvette sales.
But I also agree, that if Camaro (and Mustang for that matter) gets too far afield from it's original concept, i.e., affordable performance, we may have a problem.
A question for all of us who were at the concept's unveiling in Detroit, in '06, (or anyone else for that matter):
Had GM told us that a V8 5th gen would cost $31,000 to $50,000 plus, would we have been shocked?
But I also agree, that if Camaro (and Mustang for that matter) gets too far afield from it's original concept, i.e., affordable performance, we may have a problem.
A question for all of us who were at the concept's unveiling in Detroit, in '06, (or anyone else for that matter):
Had GM told us that a V8 5th gen would cost $31,000 to $50,000 plus, would we have been shocked?
09-30-2010, 03:44 PM
#17
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Here's Corvette's breakdown. Looks like Grand Sport has sucked the wind out of Z06 sales.
Corvette Coupe 2,605 25%
Corvette Convertible 856 8%
Corvette Grand Sport Coupe 3,211 31%
Corvette Grand Sport Convertible 2,065 20%
Corvette Z06 402 4%
Corvette ZR1 1,348 13%
——–
TOTAL (through April 14) 10,487
Corvette Coupe 2,605 25%
Corvette Convertible 856 8%
Corvette Grand Sport Coupe 3,211 31%
Corvette Grand Sport Convertible 2,065 20%
Corvette Z06 402 4%
Corvette ZR1 1,348 13%
——–
TOTAL (through April 14) 10,487
09-30-2010, 04:14 PM
#19
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Actually Z06 production was only 25% or higher in one year of its production ...that was 2009 when it was at 29% 4876 out of 16956 of total procuction. Last year (2010) was the lowest ever at 4.3 % 518 out of 12194 produced. The car has fallen on hard times. Its best production years were 22% and 24% in 2002 and 2003 during the C5 era which was when the car was priced where it should have been in the market. As far as a $50000 Camaros goes I think GM has lost touch with its consumer. Corvettes and Camaros are way over priced. I ought to know I have been selling them for 25 years. Nice cars but not priced realisticly. Unless they do something the Corvette will die soon. Average age of a new Corvette buyer is 54 years of age. They need to do something to make younger car buyers interested in purchasing a Corvette. The Camaro has taken a lot of business from the Corvette. When cars get to the over $40K level buyers start to get scarce.
Last edited by Vette Pro; 09-30-2010 at 04:18 PM.
09-30-2010, 05:07 PM
#20
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Adjusted for inflation, how is the Corvette any more expensive than what it used to be 10, 20, 30+ years ago?
Actually Z06 production was only 25% or higher in one year of its production ...that was 2009 when it was at 29% 4876 out of 16956 of total procuction. Last year (2010) was the lowest ever at 4.3 % 518 out of 12194 produced. The car has fallen on hard times. Its best production years were 22% and 24% in 2002 and 2003 during the C5 era which was when the car was priced where it should have been in the market. As far as a $50000 Camaros goes I think GM has lost touch with its consumer. Corvettes and Camaros are way over priced. I ought to know I have been selling them for 25 years. Nice cars but not priced realisticly. Unless they do something the Corvette will die soon. Average age of a new Corvette buyer is 54 years of age. They need to do something to make younger car buyers interested in purchasing a Corvette. The Camaro has taken a lot of business from the Corvette. When cars get to the over $40K level buyers start to get scarce.
10-01-2010, 08:24 AM
#23
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It might have been better to have posted this thread in Automotive News/Future Vehicles for a broader conversation, but here goes...
A couple of points here.
Remember in the late '90's when Supra, 300ZX, RX7, etc., quickly increased in price, from mid $30K to $50-ish K? Those guys made afew bucks for a very short period of time and then as they increasingly left their traditional buyer base behind......sales literally fell off of a cliff, overnight. All of those models were eventually discontinued. Even after Toyota desperately dropped the price of it's Supra (by like $10K), it was too late. The brand damage was done.
It took years for Nissan to gather itself and redo a new 350Z re-aimed and re-imaged at it's traditional buyers. Supra never returned/recovered and the cheaper RX8 became the defacto RX7 replacement. In other words, Toyota, Nissan and Mazda screwed themselves and destroyed those strong brands by moving their sporty cars too far from their traditional buyers. Maybe a lesson to note here.
Beyond that, let's say we're in a new reality now, where going forward, the performance versions of the Camaro will be in the $35K-$60K range, and that's where they stay. In that case, it's probably time for Chevy to develop a new performance/sporty model in the $17K-$30K range to replace Camaro's previously inhabited slot.
Chevy should tread carefully here.
A couple of points here.
Remember in the late '90's when Supra, 300ZX, RX7, etc., quickly increased in price, from mid $30K to $50-ish K? Those guys made afew bucks for a very short period of time and then as they increasingly left their traditional buyer base behind......sales literally fell off of a cliff, overnight. All of those models were eventually discontinued. Even after Toyota desperately dropped the price of it's Supra (by like $10K), it was too late. The brand damage was done.
It took years for Nissan to gather itself and redo a new 350Z re-aimed and re-imaged at it's traditional buyers. Supra never returned/recovered and the cheaper RX8 became the defacto RX7 replacement. In other words, Toyota, Nissan and Mazda screwed themselves and destroyed those strong brands by moving their sporty cars too far from their traditional buyers. Maybe a lesson to note here.
Beyond that, let's say we're in a new reality now, where going forward, the performance versions of the Camaro will be in the $35K-$60K range, and that's where they stay. In that case, it's probably time for Chevy to develop a new performance/sporty model in the $17K-$30K range to replace Camaro's previously inhabited slot.
Chevy should tread carefully here.
Last edited by Z284ever; 10-01-2010 at 08:49 PM.
10-01-2010, 09:58 AM
#24
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Here's Corvette's breakdown. Looks like Grand Sport has sucked the wind out of Z06 sales.
Corvette Coupe 2,605 25%
Corvette Convertible 856 8%
Corvette Grand Sport Coupe 3,211 31%
Corvette Grand Sport Convertible 2,065 20%
Corvette Z06 402 4%
Corvette ZR1 1,348 13%
——–
TOTAL (through April 14) 10,487
Corvette Coupe 2,605 25%
Corvette Convertible 856 8%
Corvette Grand Sport Coupe 3,211 31%
Corvette Grand Sport Convertible 2,065 20%
Corvette Z06 402 4%
Corvette ZR1 1,348 13%
——–
TOTAL (through April 14) 10,487
10-01-2010, 11:49 AM
#25
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I think GM is taking advantage of the huge following that Camaro has. You can compare the price of a mustang to the price of a camaro, but the mustang has been made forever. This is the first time we've seen camaro since 02, so I think they are thinking people will just want a piece of history, and pay more than the over produced (similarly optioned) mustang to get it.
Me and a guy I used to work with would always get into heated debates about mustang vs camaro. One day I said look dude - lets play a game, count the mustangs. We drove around and counted every mustang we saw on the road. I'm not kidding you, after about 30 minutes we saw easily 20+ mustangs. Then we counted for camaros. We saw 1 fbody. I think there's something to be said there... I don't think anyone that has the cash to buy a car in the 40-50k price range will sweat an extra few grand, but I could be wrong.
Me and a guy I used to work with would always get into heated debates about mustang vs camaro. One day I said look dude - lets play a game, count the mustangs. We drove around and counted every mustang we saw on the road. I'm not kidding you, after about 30 minutes we saw easily 20+ mustangs. Then we counted for camaros. We saw 1 fbody. I think there's something to be said there... I don't think anyone that has the cash to buy a car in the 40-50k price range will sweat an extra few grand, but I could be wrong.
Last edited by young maro; 10-01-2010 at 11:51 AM.
10-01-2010, 12:27 PM
#26
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They have incentives on them but they sure are not selling. We have 65 new ones on the lot and 6 ZR1s in the show room...they are sitters not sellers. The ZR1 sold great the first year because everyone who wanted the baddest Corvette ever built bought one. After that the car has to swim in the pond with all of the exotics cars. Those cars are all fast and the people who buy them want cars that turn peoples heads. A year later they are driving something else that turns peoples heads. The ZR1 looks like a Grand Sport, a Z06 or at 200 feet it is just another Corvette. It has great performance numbers but it is a fish in the wrong pond. It looks too much like any other Corvette coming down the road. I would be surprised if it is produced after this year. The Grand Sport sells because it looks like a Z06 and comes in at $20K less than the Z06. The new Z06 market is dead as a door nail. The C6 has been around since August of 2004 it is getting long in the tooth. Corvette buyers are repeat buyers and most of them have a C6 in the garage already. They are not motivated to purchse something that they already have. The Corvette market will not be viable until the next generation comes along. But if the economic conditions do not improve the car will never sell like it used to. The Camaro SS priced in the mid 30K range is stealing sales from the Corvette. GM is pricing the Corvette out of the market.
10-01-2010, 01:19 PM
#28
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X 2. I disagree.
The Corvette is still very reasonably priced, relatively speaking.
But it is getting a little old, as he mentioned. On top of that, almost ALL sports cars are down big time (as is the entire auto market as a whole compared to the big 16 million / year rates of a couple of years ago).
The Corvette is still very reasonably priced, relatively speaking.
But it is getting a little old, as he mentioned. On top of that, almost ALL sports cars are down big time (as is the entire auto market as a whole compared to the big 16 million / year rates of a couple of years ago).
10-02-2010, 12:18 AM
#30
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It might have been better to have posted this thread in Automotive News/Future Vehicles for a broader conversation, but here goes...
A couple of points here.
Remember in the late '90's when Supra, 300ZX, RX7, etc., quickly increased in price, from mid $30K to $50-ish K? Those guys made afew bucks for a very short period of time and then as they increasingly left their traditional buyer base behind......sales literally fell off of a cliff, overnight. All of those models were eventually discontinued. Even after Toyota desperately dropped the price of it's Supra (by like $10K), it was too late. The brand damage was done.
It took years for Nissan to gather itself and redo a new 350Z re-aimed and re-imaged at it's traditional buyers. Supra never returned/recovered and the cheaper RX8 became the defacto RX7 replacement. In other words, Toyota, Nissan and Mazda screwed themselves and destroyed those strong brands by moving their sporty cars too far from their traditional buyers. Maybe a lesson to note here.
Beyond that, let's say we're in a new reality now, where going forward, the performance versions of the Camaro will be in the $35K-$60K range, and that's where they stay. In that case, it's probably time for Chevy to develop a new performance/sporty model in the $17K-$30K range to replace Camaro's previously inhabited slot.
Chevy should tread carefully here.
A couple of points here.
Remember in the late '90's when Supra, 300ZX, RX7, etc., quickly increased in price, from mid $30K to $50-ish K? Those guys made afew bucks for a very short period of time and then as they increasingly left their traditional buyer base behind......sales literally fell off of a cliff, overnight. All of those models were eventually discontinued. Even after Toyota desperately dropped the price of it's Supra (by like $10K), it was too late. The brand damage was done.
It took years for Nissan to gather itself and redo a new 350Z re-aimed and re-imaged at it's traditional buyers. Supra never returned/recovered and the cheaper RX8 became the defacto RX7 replacement. In other words, Toyota, Nissan and Mazda screwed themselves and destroyed those strong brands by moving their sporty cars too far from their traditional buyers. Maybe a lesson to note here.
Beyond that, let's say we're in a new reality now, where going forward, the performance versions of the Camaro will be in the $35K-$60K range, and that's where they stay. In that case, it's probably time for Chevy to develop a new performance/sporty model in the $17K-$30K range to replace Camaro's previously inhabited slot.
Chevy should tread carefully here.
The Camaro RS should probably get an optional FI V6...that should fill the gap in performance/value...as long as it doesn't cost as much (or more) as a 1SS equipped car.