Base Vette and Camaro engine info?

[greg_nate]

Read this link...say's 450hp for each.

http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/foru...ad.php?t=64611

OR Here...

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=39431


Quote from the article...

CC: So are you going to do your own versions of the new Camaro?
Saleen: It's not legally official right now, but that's what we're hoping for.

CC: What kind of upgrades will you make, have you seen the engine GM is using in the Camaro?
Saleen: I hope I don't get in trouble with GM for saying this, but they're using a 6.2 liter 450 horsepower engine for the premium V8 in the 2009 Camaro and the base Corvette. The base V8 will probably be a detuned version of the same 6.2. So we'll just upgrade the 6.2 liter V8 to Saleen level specifications. We're going to upgrade the 6.2 liter V8 if we're given the legal chance by GM. Our base model should have around 485 horsepower, and expect our Extreme Supercharged Camaro to have over 600 horsepower.

[Casull]

Just FYI, I posted this info about a week ago.

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=479806

[greg_nate]

Originally Posted by casull

Just FYI, I posted this info about a week ago.

http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=479806

Thanks for the catch. Sorry for the repost

[Robert_Nashville]

If this point has been discussed before then I aoplogize for bringing it up again but if it hasn't been specifically addressed I'd apprecitate some info...

It all its history, I can't recall a time when the Camaro/Firebird was ever allowed to have the same or more HP than the Corvette. Of course, it's fairly recent history that essentially the same enging was used in both vehicles but even then, the F-bodies were not allowed to produce the same HP and I would say for good reason...after all, if I'm paying $10-$15-20K more for a Corvette I expect to get the top in HP.

I know all the claims about the LS1 simply being underrated and that may well be but I've seen dyno runs for many LS1 F-bodies and from LS1 Corvettes and the Corvettes have consistently put more HP to the ground; so underrated or not, I would still contend that the 'Vette will always have more.

That said, I don't understand the basis for these rumors and stories I keep reading wich either directly or in a round about way, seem to suggest that the Camrao will have the same or even more HP than the Corvette.

Could some one clear this up for me?

Thanks!

[blue 79 Z/28]

maybe its just time for that stupid rule to die.... that and its only the base vette.

[Dest98]

The LS2 GTO was rated @ 400hp, maybe the rule is already dead.

[fredmr39]

Originally Posted by greg_nate

Thanks for the catch. Sorry for the repost

I don't think it's a repost... I'm sure some that didn't care about Saleen, etc. didn't open the other thread -- I bet this will be news to some people now that the title actually suggests engines...

[msgZ28]

Originally Posted by Robert_Nashville

If this point has been discussed before then I aoplogize for bringing it up again but if it hasn't been specifically addressed I'd apprecitate some info...

It all its history, I can't recall a time when the Camaro/Firebird was ever allowed to have the same or more HP than the Corvette. Of course, it's fairly recent history that essentially the same enging was used in both vehicles but even then, the F-bodies were not allowed to produce the same HP and I would say for good reason...after all, if I'm paying $10-$15-20K more for a Corvette I expect to get the top in HP.

I know all the claims about the LS1 simply being underrated and that may well be but I've seen dyno runs for many LS1 F-bodies and from LS1 Corvettes and the Corvettes have consistently put more HP to the ground; so underrated or not, I would still contend that the 'Vette will always have more.

That said, I don't understand the basis for these rumors and stories I keep reading wich either directly or in a round about way, seem to suggest that the Camrao will have the same or even more HP than the Corvette.

Could some one clear this up for me?

Thanks!

There were several times in the cars' history when the Camaro had the same/more hp than some Corvettes. Remember in the 60's/70's when you could get a base Vette with a lowly 350 and there was what, the 396 Camaros, the 454 Chevelles, and some others, all of which made way more power than the base/mid level Corvettes. It has just been a recent thing that they "can't" and it needs to stop.

[Ray86IROC]

I know all the claims about the LS1 simply being underrated and that may well be but I've seen dyno runs for many LS1 F-bodies and from LS1 Corvettes and the Corvettes have consistently put more HP to the ground; so underrated or not, I would still contend that the 'Vette will always have more.

Same dyno, same day, both in new running condition, true apples to apples test the LS1 in the Fbodies will on average match the Vette LS1. There's always exceptions but they're definitely both pretty close on average.

Case in point, scan of a dyno test article from 98 on a TA and Vette:
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/s/jstriet/dynoarticle.jpg

(my web space isn't working well, shows stock dyno of 98 TA and 98 Vette, both 6spds, both with few miles. 292 rwhp for the TA, 285 rwhp for the Vette which should be within the margin of error from one dynorun to the next, power is virtually identical).

Same article (on a page I didn't scan) had a test on the 98 305hp DOHC 4.6 Cobra as well, it put out 256 rwhp. Obviously the LS1 in the Fbody was not putting out a mere 305hp like Chevy claimed. The LS1 made just shy of 40 more rwhp than its true 305 hp Ford counterpart.

[Stewie]

Originally Posted by Robert_Nashville

It all its history, I can't recall a time when the Camaro/Firebird was ever allowed to have the same or more HP than the Corvette.

I've been through that debate before. Since 1982 there are three years where this happened.

1990-91 Z28/IROC-Z 245hp, Corvette non ZL-1 245hp (from sales brochure)
1996 Camaro SS 305hp, Corvette w/auto 300hp

I still believe that the top 5th gen model will get the same engine that the base corvette gets.

[CLEAN]

My factory LS6 intake equipped 6sd '01 Formula put down 307/330. I've very rarely seen a 6sp C5 put that down at the wheels.

[Robert_Nashville]

Originally Posted by CLEAN

My factory LS6 intake equipped 6sd '01 Formula put down 307/330. I've very rarely seen a 6sp C5 put that down at the wheels.

So...what does this really boil down to...what is a person really getting for the extra twenty grand he spends on a 'Vette??? If I'm going to put out that much more money I expect more than just two less seats, and a different body.

I don't want to get overly simplistic...I realize the differences are more than that but still...if I had just put out that much more money for a "Vette and then heard that the Camaro was going to have the same engine with the same HP (and maybe even more if the boasts can be believed); I'd be really pissed.

Am I the only one who sees that as an issue?

[Ray86IROC]

The paper rating and the lighter weight (making it slightly faster still) and better handling of the Vettes seems to have gotten the job done well enough through the years. I mean the Fbodies have had very very similar true power output since 93, the Vette and Fbody LT1s were similarly putting down virtually identical power then too. You don't hear too many Vette owners complaining over the years.

I know my good buddy who went from a LS1 Fbody to a LS1 Vette certainly felt like he was upgrading significantly regardless of virtually identical power, and I certainly agreed. The C5 is nicer than the Fbody in virtually every way. The great handling and just overall feel of the car makes it seem far superior IMO.

I'm sure Vette guys who aren't Camaro enthusiasts don't know about, or don't put much stock in the claims of underrated Fbodies anyway.

Since everyone is thinking the weight of the 5thgen is likely to increase at least a little over the 4thgen, even if the 5thgen gets the same LS3 or whatever as the Vette the gap between the two should actually increase over previous offerings. The Vette is about as light as ever and the 5thgen will be on the heavy side...

[greg_nate]

Originally Posted by Ray86IROC

I know my good buddy who went from a LS1 Fbody to a LS1 Vette certainly felt like he was upgrading significantly regardless of virtually identical power, and I certainly agreed. The C5 is nicer than the Fbody in virtually every way. The great handling and just overall feel of the car makes it seem far superior IMO.

I'm sure Vette guys who aren't Camaro enthusiasts don't know about, or don't put much stock in the claims of underrated Fbodies anyway.

I am one of those guys. Traded in the '02 SS for an '04 Vette. The SS didn't have many mods - intake and exhaust. The Vette is now modded to the gils, but even stock, there was no comparison to the Camaro - and nor should there be. They are two completely different cars with different purposes. Since the Vette, I have now acquired a family, and the idea of a 4 seater Camaro sounds really good to me - thus my interest in the 5th gens.

I'd be willing to bet anyone that the 5th gen will have a base Vette engine. I highly doubt GM will be sandbagging the good Camaro nameplate when they have put so much effort into its revival.

[greg_nate]

Originally Posted by Robert_Nashville

I don't want to get overly simplistic...I realize the differences are more than that but still...

Yes the differences are more than that - considerably more than that. Leap-years more.

Your concerns are about the engine only...if you are so concerned about the engine, then go buy the crate engine and stick it in a rusty Gremlin chassis. Using your logic, that's the cheapest [b]and best[/] route. Screw the Camaro and the Corvette...just pick up a Gremlin from the junkyard for $100, and drop in a $9,000 LS7. You'll be the best on the block.

Trust me, people are basing their decision to buy a Vette on what engine is under the hood. Sure, there are few, but the mass majority of Vette buyers are buying it simply because it is a Vette - not a Camaro, not a WRX, not a Viper, not a 350Z. Its a Vette. Period.