OK, no fights here...just intelligent exchange of ideas.

We have two Camaro performance models. They seem to be creating some friction among us. They also seem to be creating an identity crisis for Camaro....that GM is unable/unwilling to resolve.

Are two, too many? Would it be better if one was dropped?

Or can both be differentiated enough to work well for Camaro?

Is GM even interested in differentiating them?


For the purposes of this dicussion, let's not name names...we'll probably start fighting.

Let's call them.....

Camaro Alpha
...the one that won the SCCA championships in the '60s.

and

Camaro Beta...the one that had an available big block in the '60s.

If this turns into a pissing match...I'll delete this thread.

 

Ford has 3 performance Mustangs, so I don't see why the Camaro can't have 2

I also don't think we should dwell on what happened for 1 or 2 model years almost 40 years ago

 

No idle chatter allowed here buddy...

What is it that you propose?

 

Is that Alpha with a "/"? Just kidding....

Seriously, in all reality GM is going to put these models on a sliding price scale. One more expensive and one less. A straight forward approach would seem to dictate that the more expensive one be the better performer. Would people be willing to pay more for a car with less performance? I'd say No....but....

The only way that they would, IMO, would to have two performance models with different personalities to cater to different crowds that have different performance goals.

What do I think will happen? Bravo will be all out dollars performce and Alpha will be a budget performance model. I wouldn't look down on an Alpha because of this though. Budget performance will be extremely important to a 5th gen and in the end maybe make for a lighter car that would be better suited to autocrossing...especially if a "trak pak" package were available for the corner carvers.

 

Well as much as I hate to say it.... I'd propose that they copy Ford. Ford seems to have a successful formula for making 3 performace mustangs work.

With the Camaro, I'd like to see one with a Ram Air hood, one with a cowl hood. Both have different 17" or 18" rims, different spoilers, maybe even grond effects on one of them.

Performance wise, both could get the LS2 6.0L V8. If one has 10HP more than the other I don't care.
maybe
Camaro A - 375HP
Camaro B - 390HP
C6 Vette - 415HP

Maybe even have one cater to the drag guys and one for the road course guys.

 

Make one of the two performance models AWD!

 

OK..

Which one?

I know you've brought this up before...maybe the time is right to develop this idea further.

 

I say make an IROC, thats better than both of them so they dont have anything left to get in a pissing contest about

But seriously, I dont see a problem with having two performance models, even three if they wanted to make the RS halfway respectable again.

I think they should make ones of them a little more rare though and offer a different engine package for it. I think the Z should be the basic top of the line package, with the high power LS1, and then the SS should get a bigger hp engine say an LS6. Or vice vera. But I really think teh SS should get the higher power engine since thats they way it was back in the day.

Then the IROC should get a sb 427

 

a) one model

b) LSx stroker

c) Cobra slaying performance

d) I don't care what you call it!

 

Camaro Alpha comes with the standard V8.

Camaro Beta comes with the somewhat higher rated V8.

But to make each model unique, Alpha will be the only model to have the "track package" as an option.

Beta will be the only one to get a "sport appearence" (i.e. ground fx, hood etc.) package.

I know this is off topic, but I think in order it is also important to make the Alphas and Betas also have a different front clip than that of the base V6 car.

 

Gentlemen,

Even the mighty Corvette has basically two performance models (the base convertible, FRC and T-top cars), and it could be considered a single-use toy in some cases.

Camaro has to appeal to a broader spectrum, so I figure more iterations are possible.

 

I dunno... doesn't matter really... that just fall sinto the naming game thing.

It would differentiate the two though, therefore giving a reason to the existance of both, without "devalueing" the other....

 

I posted this in another thread:


"I've pretty much spent the better part of my life ( since I was six years old, in fact, when I saw my first '67 Camaro), following Camaro's, ups and downs...it's successes and failures.....and think IMHO, I have a pretty good handle on where and what Camaro needs to be, to be successful.




Camaro NEEDS three basic models:

1) The Budget GT.

Fun. Affordable. Good looking. A joy to drive and own. Beautifully put together.

2) The Luxury GT.

Fast. Powerful. Comfortable. Upscale. High option content. If you're gonna have a Nav system....this one should have it.

3) The Performance GT.

Very fast. World class braking and handling. Serious look. Content limited."


I really and truly believe in this formula for Camaro. Every successful Camaro generation used this formula to great advantage.

Which one (Alpha or Beta) goes where?

 

1) Budget GT. Here is your base model. V6 power. Basic bells and whistles with lots of trim and gadget options.

2) Luxury GT. Fully loaded to the max, no nonsense, all the bells and whistles. Comes with a Supercharged V6 or normally aspirated V8. Few trim options other than convertible or t-top coupe, automatic or six speed. Upgraded suspension over the base model.

3) Performance GT. Here is your no nonsense Cobra slayer. With options it can be built up like the Luxury GT, but it doesn't have to be. Comes with a large displacement stroker or supercharged V8. 6 speed is standard, automatic optional. Upgraded suspension over the Luxury model. Some luxury items are optional (leather, power seats, pw, pl, etc.)

Some items would be standard across the board, i.e. AC, Interm. Wipers, etc. Others would be available options on all three models, e.g. power leather front buckets (although these would be standard on the Luxury GT.)

As for naming these models.... should I even go there?

To be honest, I'm getting tired of this pissing match of Z/28 vs. SS, slash vs. no-slash, etc. I just want Camaro back.

1) Camaro
2) Camaro RS
3) Camaro SS



And just to make the Z/28 camp happy. For 2007 there would be a limited edition special "trim" package for the Performance GT model with special graphics and badges, etc... in other words...

4) Camaro Z-28 40th Anniversary Edition.

The differences between 3 & 4 would be purely cosmetic... their performance, equal.

So sue me!

 

In regards to the no-nonsense Cobra slayer. I'd like to see GM go the way of the turbo V8. Cobra vs. Camaro, Blower vs Turbo. Even if it's slightly more expensive, the turbo would open up the turbo F-Body market, differentiate the Camaro model it is in from any other and be very sought after like the Turbo T/A's of the 3rd gen era but now more common. Superchargers are everywhere and far outnumber turbos. If GM puts together a well done turbo LSx in the high end Camaro, good things are going to happen in our camp again. I think that goign turbo for the high end performance model will open many new doors for the Camaro. Cobra can play with its pulleys and its HP draining blower, I think we'd like the efficiency turbo can offer and ability to just throw on a boost controller and call it a day.