Shkersprt

im not sure if this has been debated before, but i couldnt find it if it has.

Im looking at a 97 z28 camaro right now, i really think im gonna get it.

Many people say that 6 speed is the way to go.

It's true that it gives you maximum control over the power the car has, but is it really THAT much of a difference over an automatic car? Is it noticable? If a stock 6 speed and a stock automatic z28 lined up against each other...would the difference be that great?

and i would understand if it were strictly a track car. But for a car that im going to use as my everyday car...does it really make a difference? I know in slow imports it does.

ianfromMA

woah....search...and while searching, put the flame suit on, you're gonna get BURNED!!!


i believe, auto + high stall torque converter will rape a standard in a 1/4 mile. auto's have advantage on launch...and well you just can't shift faster than an auto.

standard would have advantage in twisties i think, you have more control over gear selection (obviously...)

i think thats right, but i suck at cars...

Shkersprt

i dont agree with that at all.

i wont get flamed for anything, i'm not advocating either, im simply asking a question.

Downshifting in a 6 speed is different that the way an automatic downshifts, so if two z28's are going 50 mph on the street, and they both hit it, which one has the advantage...if either?

Steve Y

Stock for stock the automatic will be easier to launch and will win most of the time out of the hole. After that, it is all 6-speed (with a good driver). I think the 6-speed has a .1 to .3 second advantage in the 1/4 mile on average.

Stephen 87 IROC

With 2 identical cars in a heads up race, the manual should win just because of the reduced power loss through the transmission.

Since most drag racing is bracket racing where consistancy wins races, the auto will dominate. I can hook an air or electric solinoid onto my shifter and use an rpm switch to shift the tranny at the same rpm every time. I might not be as fast in ET as a manual tranny but speed means nothing in a bracket race.

Now if you want to do road course or autocross racing then a manual transmission is the way to go. You have more control over how the power is transfered to the wheels.

Both transmissions have advantages over the other. It just depends on what kind of racing is being done.

rskrause

An M6 is clearly the way to go. The only exceptions are if you are making huge power, in which case you need a TH400, or you are a very dedicated bracket racer and need the consistency of the automatic. But the OEM auto (4L60E) is not a very stout transmission. If you beat on the car it will break. OTOH, the T56 (manual) is an awesome transmision.

Rich Krause

DanBUCF

If 2 identical cars lined up against eachother, 1 being an A4 and the other being a M6, the M6 is gonna win (not by too much) every time out, no questions asked. This is due to less parasitic drivetrain loss through the manual transmission as well as a 3.42 rear end versus a 3.23 or possibly a 2.73 rear. Thats just what it boils down to no questions asked. However, if the guy with the M6 can't drive his car, more than likely the A4 will win. That being said, the M6 is the stronger car but often times you'll see an identical A4 beating it.

And for those that say an A4 shifts quicker...I beg to differ. I promise you I can outshift just about any 4L60E out there. Not trying to sound cocky, but I know its possible and I do it.

fastcamz28

If the M6 has lower gear ratio than the A4 they are not identical. How do you measure your shift speed so that you know you can "... outshift just about any 4l60E out there." It has been my impression that a computer is faster than a human. Guess I was wrong..... One thing I do know, my A4 won't miss a shift. Same thing cannot be said for a M6.

The truth is, both have their strengths and weaknesses depending on planned use and type of racing. To say one is better than the other, even in drag racing, is to NOT take into consideration the mods that would be done to maximize performance of either trans. If you want to see an approximate comparison between M6 and A4 trannies in bolt-on modded cars, read the results of the 11 car shootout in GM High-Tech Performance, Jan, 2003. A t-56 w/ 4.10 gears @ 3360 lbs was the fastest w/ 1.80 60 ft and 12.42 et. Next was an A4 w/ 3.23 gears @ 3332 lbs w/ 1.74 60 ft and 12.66 et. The rest of the field were heavier (3500-3660 lbs w/ 1 exception). The next 3 fastest times (in the high 12's) were run by A4's. Six of the seven A4's ran faster 60 ft times compared to all of the M6's including the fastest M6 (when comparing the 2 best runs of each car). None of the A4's ran 60 ft time above 2 secs while 2 0f the 4 M6's broke the 2 second time. Does this mean that one tranny is better than the other. Probably not. But it does make a strong case for A4's while not diminishing the benefits of a M6. In sum, it depends on what you like as much as anything. I love my beefed-up A4 and I know it can handle an M6 just fine as I've done it on several occassions. Are there times I wish it was an M6? Sure, it would be a kick to go through the gears like the old days. But for my daily use and racing purposes, I prefer the A4. Doesn't make it better than an M6, just my preference.
Thanks!

DanBUCF

I was inferring that if you take 2 "IDENTICAL" cas i.e. same weight, engine, mods, etc...but one of the 2 cars has a stock A4 and the other has a stock M6. Under those circumstances, the M6 will be the quicker car as long as there is no driver error or the driver drives like a 8 year old girl.

As to how I know I can outshift an A4? I can't back that up w/any kind of concrete #'s. I've been in and driven dozens of A4 cars at the track and i can promise you the computer won't shift as quickly as I can. You can either believe me or come along for a ride.

Stephen 87 IROC

I'll assume your above post was referring to this. 2 identical cars can't have 3.42 gears in one and 3.23 in the other. That means they're not identical

Making them even more identical would mean having the same weight. A manual tranny car is slightly lighter than an automatic. Even with the weight of the flywheel and clutch and automatic transmission is still very heavy.

Also an M6 is too much tranny for drag racing. It's really just a 4 speed with 2 overdrives. You should never need the OD in a 1/4 mile race unless your gearing is all wrong. The A4 isn't much better for the same reason. OD is a small weak gear and in a drag race it could fail plus there's a higher power loss through OD gears because of the reduced torque multiplication.

TedH

Let me put it this way, pound for pound and everything being equal, there are extremely few people in this world who can drive well enough to have he manual come out on top. You can draw your own conclusions from this and maybe you truly are the next Ronnie Sox, but I doubt it (no offense).

Auto's will be easier to bracket race and probably more trouble free on a reasonably stock or moderately modded vehicle that sees a combination of street/strip use.

Hey, six speeds are fun but after having raced both the automatic is much easier and I'm not replacing clutches all the time.

Javier97Z28

That pretty much sums it up

Tell that to so many M6 drivers who's feelings I've hurt

darrens99formul

I agree but the other side to that coin is the M6 is not very friendly to the stock 10 bolt and the automatic is. So while the M6 is paying a few grand for a 12 bolt rear end the A4 is paying a few grand for a better tranny. While the M6 is paying for 4.10's, clutch and a shifter the A4 is getting a high stall torque converter, shift kit and tranny cooler.

They both spent a lot of cash but I'd guess 99 of 100 times the high stalled automatic wins the 1/4 mile race. So maybe, just saying maybe the M6 isn't quite so clearly the way to go for a bolt-on car that frequents the drag strip. In fact if I was to want a low 12 second car without touching the internals of my engine or using N20 I'd say the automatic was a better choice for that particular goal.

Torque converters make all the difference in the world. I'm counting the days till mine goes in.

Steve Y

Also, the trans. gearing of the M6 is 2.66, 1.78, 1.30, 1.00, .75 and .50. The gearing for the A4 is 3.06, 1.63, 1.00, and .70. So that is another non identical variable. So it would be really hard to compare two identical cars, M6 vs. A4. You would have to set them up with the same rear end, same tranny ratios, same weight, and then what stall speed would the A4 get?

I think a better real world comparison would be a bone stock 3.23 geared A4 LS1 vs. a bone stock 3.42 geared M6 LS1 (of the same year, mileage, state of tune, etc). I bet most of the time, most drivers would do better in the 1/4 mile with the A4 car.

Here is an interesting thing: on the same day I ran my car (see sig.) a bone stock (with removal of the air silencer only) '00 Mustang GT auto. vert. ran a 14.1 at 99.7 mph. He had a half tank of gas, spare, jack etc. still in the car and the driver weighed the same as me. My car ran a 14.0 at 101 that day. But I had all the mods in the sig. So his car was heavier had less mods and still ran within a tenth. I'm not the greatest driver, but at least average. Moral of the story, get the automatic unless you really enjoy banging gears. The automatic is more consistent, easier to drive, easier to launch, never misses a gear, put less stress on parts and is probably cheaper in the long run.

Antz97ZNJ

6spd all the way