Scan94/95 datalog request
10-13-2016, 08:47 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 186
Scan94/95 datalog request
Hello, Looking for someone to review the attached 1/4 mile data log. Car has a high rpm miss. After looking at the data log I see an issue with the bank 1 fuel numbers. Starts easily and runs well until medium/upper rpm. Any input is appreciated.
DLOG-Save-2016Oct12-192034-.csv
DLOG-Save-2016Oct12-192034-.csv
10-14-2016, 11:24 AM
#2
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 70,650
Re: Scan94/95 datalog request
Downloaded. Odd format, with blank columns. Maybe that's just the 93 format vs. the 94/95 format. Last column on the right indicates there is 1 DTC set part way through the log. Have you scanned it for that code? It is normally shown in the next column on the right which lists the specific DTC in the 94/95 version. The blank columns would contain important info, like PE mode activation, and left and right O2 ready flags. Again, maybe 93 format.
I'll take a quick look at it, but with the missing/blank columns I need to check with GaryDoug to verify all the available 93 info is there.
I'll take a quick look at it, but with the missing/blank columns I need to check with GaryDoug to verify all the available 93 info is there.
10-14-2016, 02:15 PM
#3
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 186
Re: Scan94/95 datalog request
Just checked, shows Code 55. Didn't get a CE light. Also found 1 injector connector on the left side cracked, still plugged in but the metal retainer is missing. Could a poor connection at the injector cause these symptoms?
Thanks for your time and assistance.
Thanks for your time and assistance.
10-14-2016, 07:34 PM
#5
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 70,650
Re: Scan94/95 datalog request
If you had a bad connection on the injector plug, you would have DTC 18.
DTC 55 indicates it was running lean. The O2 readings should confirm that, in the records immediately before the code set. Will indicate if it's a single bank or both banks.
DTC 55 indicates it was running lean. The O2 readings should confirm that, in the records immediately before the code set. Will indicate if it's a single bank or both banks.
10-14-2016, 09:53 PM
#6
Prominent Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Born on the Florida West Coast, now where can I retire?
Posts: 1,505
Re: Scan94/95 datalog request
There are blank items in the table normally because I got lazy adding the 93 stuff;-) And because the file export saves all items, including the blank ones, you get blank columns. Also the 93 setting doesn't show the DTC's.
10-15-2016, 03:55 PM
#8
Prominent Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Born on the Florida West Coast, now where can I retire?
Posts: 1,505
Re: Scan94/95 datalog request
I should clarify something. The 93 setting of the app shows all the data that the 93 pcm sends. There is no PE value reported. I just "got lazy" in spacing the data around the table to make most values in the same place compared with the 94/95 setting. So, when you click on the button to switch years, the table doesn't change a lot.
10-15-2016, 04:22 PM
#9
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 70,650
Re: Scan94/95 datalog request
Questions:
Have you converted to 4-wire heated O2 sensors? Takes forever for the left side O2 sensor to show any signs of life. That is preventing the ECM from going into closed loop. When you started the pull, it was still in open loop.
What are your fan on/off temps? The #1 fan is running all the time, the #2 fan seems to come on at 185*F. Seems too low.
What temp thermostat are you running. Temp never goes below 180*F, which would seem to indicate a stock rating of 180*F. The fans are fighting the t'stat. Just a lot of wasted energy, with the engine possibly running too cool to burn the harmful, acid-producing condensates out of the oil.
Has the knock sensor been tuned out, or possibly "desensitized"? At WOT with the lean readings you have, there should be knock retard, but there is none.
ECM isn't operating in the normal long term fuel correction Cells. It's only using 16 (normal idle), 17 (decel), and 18 (load). 18 is normally only used in open loop, and in some cases when Cell 15 LTFT's are pulling fuel out. Was this something that was done in the tune? I think since the ECM was seeing the very lean condition on the left side O2 sensor, it did not use the normal cells.
DTC 55 sets if you are in Power Enrichment (PE) mode (~WOT) and the ECM sees a serious lean condition. In this case, it was the left side O2 sensor. You normally want the stock, narrow-band O2's in the range of 850-925 mV at WOT. Your right side was in this range, averaging 881 mV with a max of 924 mV. Left side was right near the closed loop part throttle 14.7:1 A/F ratio, with an average reading of 543 mV and a max of 577 mV.
And, while getting this indicated lean condition, the ECM in Cell 18 was adding 14% extra fuel on the left side, and 0% on the right side.
But, no knock retard, which would normally accompany a lean condition. Maybe the low coolant temp prevented the knock.
So, could be a totally screwed up left side O2 sensor, causing a "false" lean on the left side, or it's really running that lean due to some sort of problem with an injector or injector on the left side. Or you have a massive exhaust leak on the left side, before the O2 sensors, or a huge misfire on the left side. Whatever the problem is, it only affects one bank of the engine, so it's not a fuel pressure problem.
Have you converted to 4-wire heated O2 sensors? Takes forever for the left side O2 sensor to show any signs of life. That is preventing the ECM from going into closed loop. When you started the pull, it was still in open loop.
What are your fan on/off temps? The #1 fan is running all the time, the #2 fan seems to come on at 185*F. Seems too low.
What temp thermostat are you running. Temp never goes below 180*F, which would seem to indicate a stock rating of 180*F. The fans are fighting the t'stat. Just a lot of wasted energy, with the engine possibly running too cool to burn the harmful, acid-producing condensates out of the oil.
Has the knock sensor been tuned out, or possibly "desensitized"? At WOT with the lean readings you have, there should be knock retard, but there is none.
ECM isn't operating in the normal long term fuel correction Cells. It's only using 16 (normal idle), 17 (decel), and 18 (load). 18 is normally only used in open loop, and in some cases when Cell 15 LTFT's are pulling fuel out. Was this something that was done in the tune? I think since the ECM was seeing the very lean condition on the left side O2 sensor, it did not use the normal cells.
DTC 55 sets if you are in Power Enrichment (PE) mode (~WOT) and the ECM sees a serious lean condition. In this case, it was the left side O2 sensor. You normally want the stock, narrow-band O2's in the range of 850-925 mV at WOT. Your right side was in this range, averaging 881 mV with a max of 924 mV. Left side was right near the closed loop part throttle 14.7:1 A/F ratio, with an average reading of 543 mV and a max of 577 mV.
And, while getting this indicated lean condition, the ECM in Cell 18 was adding 14% extra fuel on the left side, and 0% on the right side.
But, no knock retard, which would normally accompany a lean condition. Maybe the low coolant temp prevented the knock.
So, could be a totally screwed up left side O2 sensor, causing a "false" lean on the left side, or it's really running that lean due to some sort of problem with an injector or injector on the left side. Or you have a massive exhaust leak on the left side, before the O2 sensors, or a huge misfire on the left side. Whatever the problem is, it only affects one bank of the engine, so it's not a fuel pressure problem.
10-15-2016, 09:39 PM
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 186
Re: Scan94/95 datalog request
Questions:
Have you converted to 4-wire heated O2 sensors? Takes forever for the left side O2 sensor to show any signs of life. That is preventing the ECM from going into closed loop. When you started the pull, it was still in open loop.
No conversion.
What are your fan on/off temps? The #1 fan is running all the time, the #2 fan seems to come on at 185*F. Seems too low.
PCM programmed the fans settings several years ago, not sure of the settings. Prior to using this scan I relied on the temp gauge which normally stays near the center.
What temp thermostat are you running. Temp never goes below 180*F, which would seem to indicate a stock rating of 180*F. The fans are fighting the t'stat. Just a lot of wasted energy, with the engine possibly running too cool to burn the harmful, acid-producing condensates out of the oil.
Reasonably sure the thermostat is just a stock replacement.
Has the knock sensor been tuned out, or possibly "desensitized"? At WOT with the lean readings you have, there should be knock retard, but there is none.
I spliced a resistor into the wire and am able to switch between off [tuned out] and normal operation.
ECM isn't operating in the normal long term fuel correction Cells. It's only using 16 (normal idle), 17 (decel), and 18 (load). 18 is normally only used in open loop, and in some cases when Cell 15 LTFT's are pulling fuel out. Was this something that was done in the tune? I think since the ECM was seeing the very lean condition on the left side O2 sensor, it did not use the normal cells.
Must be in the tune, I provided a list of mods to him, he burned chip and sent it to me. This was several years ago. As you may have guessed computers and tuning are not my strong suit.
DTC 55 sets if you are in Power Enrichment (PE) mode (~WOT) and the ECM sees a serious lean condition. In this case, it was the left side O2 sensor. You normally want the stock, narrow-band O2's in the range of 850-925 mV at WOT. Your right side was in this range, averaging 881 mV with a max of 924 mV. Left side was right near the closed loop part throttle 14.7:1 A/F ratio, with an average reading of 543 mV and a max of 577 mV.
And, while getting this indicated lean condition, the ECM in Cell 18 was adding 14% extra fuel on the left side, and 0% on the right side.
But, no knock retard, which would normally accompany a lean condition. Maybe the low coolant temp prevented the knock.
So, could be a totally screwed up left side O2 sensor, causing a "false" lean on the left side, or it's really running that lean due to some sort of problem with an injector or injector on the left side. Or you have a massive exhaust leak on the left side, before the O2 sensors, or a huge misfire on the left side. Whatever the problem is, it only affects one bank of the engine, so it's not a fuel pressure problem.
Have you converted to 4-wire heated O2 sensors? Takes forever for the left side O2 sensor to show any signs of life. That is preventing the ECM from going into closed loop. When you started the pull, it was still in open loop.
No conversion.
What are your fan on/off temps? The #1 fan is running all the time, the #2 fan seems to come on at 185*F. Seems too low.
PCM programmed the fans settings several years ago, not sure of the settings. Prior to using this scan I relied on the temp gauge which normally stays near the center.
What temp thermostat are you running. Temp never goes below 180*F, which would seem to indicate a stock rating of 180*F. The fans are fighting the t'stat. Just a lot of wasted energy, with the engine possibly running too cool to burn the harmful, acid-producing condensates out of the oil.
Reasonably sure the thermostat is just a stock replacement.
Has the knock sensor been tuned out, or possibly "desensitized"? At WOT with the lean readings you have, there should be knock retard, but there is none.
I spliced a resistor into the wire and am able to switch between off [tuned out] and normal operation.
ECM isn't operating in the normal long term fuel correction Cells. It's only using 16 (normal idle), 17 (decel), and 18 (load). 18 is normally only used in open loop, and in some cases when Cell 15 LTFT's are pulling fuel out. Was this something that was done in the tune? I think since the ECM was seeing the very lean condition on the left side O2 sensor, it did not use the normal cells.
Must be in the tune, I provided a list of mods to him, he burned chip and sent it to me. This was several years ago. As you may have guessed computers and tuning are not my strong suit.
DTC 55 sets if you are in Power Enrichment (PE) mode (~WOT) and the ECM sees a serious lean condition. In this case, it was the left side O2 sensor. You normally want the stock, narrow-band O2's in the range of 850-925 mV at WOT. Your right side was in this range, averaging 881 mV with a max of 924 mV. Left side was right near the closed loop part throttle 14.7:1 A/F ratio, with an average reading of 543 mV and a max of 577 mV.
And, while getting this indicated lean condition, the ECM in Cell 18 was adding 14% extra fuel on the left side, and 0% on the right side.
But, no knock retard, which would normally accompany a lean condition. Maybe the low coolant temp prevented the knock.
So, could be a totally screwed up left side O2 sensor, causing a "false" lean on the left side, or it's really running that lean due to some sort of problem with an injector or injector on the left side. Or you have a massive exhaust leak on the left side, before the O2 sensors, or a huge misfire on the left side. Whatever the problem is, it only affects one bank of the engine, so it's not a fuel pressure problem.
10-19-2016, 11:14 AM
#12
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 70,650
Re: Scan94/95 datalog request
What brand O2 sensors did you buy? Data log shows major amounts of fuel being pulled out to prevent it from running rich. Total reversal from the earlier log. In the idle cell (16) it's pulling out 38% of the fuel on the left side, and 48% of the fuel on the right side, using both the long term and short term fuel corrections.
When you go 100% (WOT) throttle, the ECM defaults to cell 18 and locks the LTFT's and STFT's at 128 (normal, since it was pulling out fuel at part load). As a result, both O2 sensors are pinned to maximum rich readings part of the time, and very close the rest.
When operating at part load in Cell 18, the left LTFT is 108 (as low as it can possibly go) and the STFT is 100. That's pulling 34% fuel out. Right bank LTFT is 108 and STFT drops as low as 88, so it's pulling out 42% of the fuel.
Given the responses in Cell 18 with the LTFT/STFT's locked at 128 seriously over fueling it, and the fact the it has to use the fuel reduction LTFT/STFT's to pull a lot of fuel out, either the O2 sensors are reading artificially high, or there is something seriously wrong with the fuel pressure, MAP sensor, or the injector constants in the program.
Idle is all over the place too. With a target idle RPM of 825, it seems to surge up and down between 900-1000 RPM, and the IAC counts actually respond by going in the wrong direction in many cases. Can't understand that at all.
Do you have cam specs? The MAP reading seems a bit high (meaning low vacuum) for a "small" cam.
When you go 100% (WOT) throttle, the ECM defaults to cell 18 and locks the LTFT's and STFT's at 128 (normal, since it was pulling out fuel at part load). As a result, both O2 sensors are pinned to maximum rich readings part of the time, and very close the rest.
When operating at part load in Cell 18, the left LTFT is 108 (as low as it can possibly go) and the STFT is 100. That's pulling 34% fuel out. Right bank LTFT is 108 and STFT drops as low as 88, so it's pulling out 42% of the fuel.
Given the responses in Cell 18 with the LTFT/STFT's locked at 128 seriously over fueling it, and the fact the it has to use the fuel reduction LTFT/STFT's to pull a lot of fuel out, either the O2 sensors are reading artificially high, or there is something seriously wrong with the fuel pressure, MAP sensor, or the injector constants in the program.
Idle is all over the place too. With a target idle RPM of 825, it seems to surge up and down between 900-1000 RPM, and the IAC counts actually respond by going in the wrong direction in many cases. Can't understand that at all.
Do you have cam specs? The MAP reading seems a bit high (meaning low vacuum) for a "small" cam.
10-19-2016, 04:39 PM
#13
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 186
Re: Scan94/95 datalog request
Sensors are Delco AFS-21.
Comp Cam 227/233 112 525/534
Today I checked the fuel pressure with a mechanical gauge and found the gauge in the car to be inaccurate, pressure with the vacuum line pulled was on the high side at about 50 lbs. I have an adjustable regulator and was able to bring the pressure down to 43-44 lbs.
Also replaced the TR6 plugs with BR6EF, TR6's looked a bit wet from too much fuel.
Car has Ford 30 lb injectors and is supposed to be tuned as such.
Is 50 lbs. at wot high enough to cause problems? Thanks again.
Comp Cam 227/233 112 525/534
Today I checked the fuel pressure with a mechanical gauge and found the gauge in the car to be inaccurate, pressure with the vacuum line pulled was on the high side at about 50 lbs. I have an adjustable regulator and was able to bring the pressure down to 43-44 lbs.
Also replaced the TR6 plugs with BR6EF, TR6's looked a bit wet from too much fuel.
Car has Ford 30 lb injectors and is supposed to be tuned as such.
Is 50 lbs. at wot high enough to cause problems? Thanks again.
10-19-2016, 05:44 PM
#14
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 70,650
Re: Scan94/95 datalog request
Is the AFPR an Aeromotive?
Running at 50 PSI, compared to stock 43.5 PSI causes the injectors to flow 7.2% extra fuel. The Ford injectors are flow rated at 39.15 PSI. That means with stock LT1 pressure, they will flow 31.6 #/HR. If the tuner didn't pick that up, running at 50 PSI instead of 39.15 would cause them to flow 13% extra fuel.
Neither of those cases would account for the amount of fuel the ECM is pulling out.
Running at 50 PSI, compared to stock 43.5 PSI causes the injectors to flow 7.2% extra fuel. The Ford injectors are flow rated at 39.15 PSI. That means with stock LT1 pressure, they will flow 31.6 #/HR. If the tuner didn't pick that up, running at 50 PSI instead of 39.15 would cause them to flow 13% extra fuel.
Neither of those cases would account for the amount of fuel the ECM is pulling out.
10-19-2016, 11:07 PM
#15
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: PA
Posts: 186
Re: Scan94/95 datalog request
Regulator is Holley. Gauge in car is Autometer [electric] I probably adjusted the pressure using the defective gauge.
No exhaust leaks, or anything mechanical, do you think I may need another tune?
As far as I know there isn't anyone near me that tunes these cars. At least with this scanning software I might be able to get something half way decent via mail order. Thanks again.
No exhaust leaks, or anything mechanical, do you think I may need another tune?
As far as I know there isn't anyone near me that tunes these cars. At least with this scanning software I might be able to get something half way decent via mail order. Thanks again.