Why would it cost a GM employee his/her job to talk about Camaro...
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Why would it cost a GM employee his/her job to talk about Camaro...
It leads me to believe something is happening with our favorite car.To that end, I also beleive that some people on this board have a bit of insight.
What do you think?
What do you think?
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From: At car shows and cruise nights!
Read through this post: http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...threadid=55850
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OK, here's what I have so far......
The concept of this Gag Order so intrigued me that I've gone back over every shred of information, bit and pieces of e-mails, conversations etc... to come to the following conclusions.
Others here have also mentioned parts of these conclusions.
Here's some highlights....in no particular order:
--Lutz tells the media that there is a Camaro in the future.....and then retracts it about two weeks later.
--Ritter tells several journalists and dealers that there is a future Camaro....and then retracts the statement about 20 days later.
--Reuss tells Automotive News that his group is working on a Camaro replacement....and then denies it about a week and a half later.
--Moss talks about the next gen Camaro...and then denies it later.
--Red Planet tells people that he cannot talk about the 5th gen....yet no-one believes him ...........
We've discussed ad nauseum the concept of GM somehow signing over the rights to their copyrights namesake, Camaro so that they are restricted from building the car elsewhere......but wouldn't they also have to sign over ALL of the other f-body monikers too? Not very likely........not gonna' happen.
I'm now 85%+ convinced that my comment earlier in this thread (and posted a few times before....by others too).......
quote:
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That being said, I can imagine a situation that would include a package of incentives given to GM to bring the f-body assembly to the St. Therese plant that would commit GM to the plant for a period of time and not allow the switching of location unless the model was cancelled.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
....is very, very close to the truth.
I can only imagine the wrath that would be suffered (I told you some had already lost their jobs!) by anyone at GM that would cause GM to be square in the crosshairs of the Labor Relations Board, the CAW and even some spill over to the UAW...if what I have gleaned is correct.
What else could cause even Lutz himself to retract what would otherwise be a beacon of hope for some of GM's most faithfull enthusiasts?
I'll ask all of you to please consider this and know that I didn't just pull this out of my @$$ and let's call off the dogs and drop the ram rods that we've tried to beat down GM's door with to get that small crumb of hope.
I now am nearly convinced that the main reason that we have not been told more is they CAN'T!
I also now believe that we might best consider to be careful what we ask for.....to beg, demand, contrive and try to beat an answer out of GM could be extremely counter-productive.
NO-one wants a major labor revolt at this delicate time for our economy or GM's attempt to recover from the Zarrella dark days.
I hope too that no-one thinks that I am trying to grandstand, one-up, brag or pretend to be arrogant enough to blow smoke up your collective @$$e$....I assure you nothing could be further from the truth. I didn't make this stuff up. Have a look back at everything you've read from the all the sources we have and see if you don't agree.
I know this all sounds too James Bond.....too over the top...too simplistic, but sometimes the truth is right there and you just need to clear out the smoke and see the simple facts.
Now is a time for us to be patient and look foward to the possibility that, as Red Planet has told us "Performance is not dead at GM" and comments like "Keep the Faith" just might be all that he / they can share with us, again as he's said before "In time we will all understand what is happening and the reasons behind it".
I also know for a fact that the Camaro has some very big fans in very high places at GM......but you can't turn a ship as large as GM around on a dime and you have to do the best with the mess that your predecessors left you with.......and the pennies the bean counters let you play with.....
Doesn't mean that we can't keep adding our $0.02 worth!!
I now have been given a renewed hope that we will get our 5th gen...............................in all due time......
Case in point!!
The concept of this Gag Order so intrigued me that I've gone back over every shred of information, bit and pieces of e-mails, conversations etc... to come to the following conclusions.
Others here have also mentioned parts of these conclusions.
Here's some highlights....in no particular order:
--Lutz tells the media that there is a Camaro in the future.....and then retracts it about two weeks later.
--Ritter tells several journalists and dealers that there is a future Camaro....and then retracts the statement about 20 days later.
--Reuss tells Automotive News that his group is working on a Camaro replacement....and then denies it about a week and a half later.
--Moss talks about the next gen Camaro...and then denies it later.
--Red Planet tells people that he cannot talk about the 5th gen....yet no-one believes him ...........
We've discussed ad nauseum the concept of GM somehow signing over the rights to their copyrights namesake, Camaro so that they are restricted from building the car elsewhere......but wouldn't they also have to sign over ALL of the other f-body monikers too? Not very likely........not gonna' happen.
I'm now 85%+ convinced that my comment earlier in this thread (and posted a few times before....by others too).......
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That being said, I can imagine a situation that would include a package of incentives given to GM to bring the f-body assembly to the St. Therese plant that would commit GM to the plant for a period of time and not allow the switching of location unless the model was cancelled.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
....is very, very close to the truth.
I can only imagine the wrath that would be suffered (I told you some had already lost their jobs!) by anyone at GM that would cause GM to be square in the crosshairs of the Labor Relations Board, the CAW and even some spill over to the UAW...if what I have gleaned is correct.
What else could cause even Lutz himself to retract what would otherwise be a beacon of hope for some of GM's most faithfull enthusiasts?
I'll ask all of you to please consider this and know that I didn't just pull this out of my @$$ and let's call off the dogs and drop the ram rods that we've tried to beat down GM's door with to get that small crumb of hope.
I now am nearly convinced that the main reason that we have not been told more is they CAN'T!
I also now believe that we might best consider to be careful what we ask for.....to beg, demand, contrive and try to beat an answer out of GM could be extremely counter-productive.
NO-one wants a major labor revolt at this delicate time for our economy or GM's attempt to recover from the Zarrella dark days.
I hope too that no-one thinks that I am trying to grandstand, one-up, brag or pretend to be arrogant enough to blow smoke up your collective @$$e$....I assure you nothing could be further from the truth. I didn't make this stuff up. Have a look back at everything you've read from the all the sources we have and see if you don't agree.
I know this all sounds too James Bond.....too over the top...too simplistic, but sometimes the truth is right there and you just need to clear out the smoke and see the simple facts.
Now is a time for us to be patient and look foward to the possibility that, as Red Planet has told us "Performance is not dead at GM" and comments like "Keep the Faith" just might be all that he / they can share with us, again as he's said before "In time we will all understand what is happening and the reasons behind it".
I also know for a fact that the Camaro has some very big fans in very high places at GM......but you can't turn a ship as large as GM around on a dime and you have to do the best with the mess that your predecessors left you with.......and the pennies the bean counters let you play with.....
Doesn't mean that we can't keep adding our $0.02 worth!!
I now have been given a renewed hope that we will get our 5th gen...............................in all due time......
Case in point!!
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 564
From: Fletcher, NC, US
Originally posted by phantasm99
I now have been given a renewed hope that we will get our 5th gen...............................in all due time......
I now have been given a renewed hope that we will get our 5th gen...............................in all due time......
The Solstice = Firebird rumor is the only glimmer of hope right now, but even that.. it just doesn't do anything for me. The Solstice is a whole different beast. R.I.P. Firebirds.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 14
From: Richmond, IL
as much as I think and want the f-body to come back, I admit I'll be very surprised to see it in production again. GM seems to be heading more in the direction of trucks. all there car concepts lately have sucked. Who the fawk wants an SSR? NOBODY. The pontiac vibe? wth? thats no sports car.
The new GTO is the only likely replacement for the f-body from what I see... and I think its being made in Australia, and its going to be imported. what ever GM. You lost a loyal customer when you killed the f-body. Only other GM I'll ever buy at this point is the vette.
hell they are stopping production of the s-10 as well!
The new GTO is the only likely replacement for the f-body from what I see... and I think its being made in Australia, and its going to be imported. what ever GM. You lost a loyal customer when you killed the f-body. Only other GM I'll ever buy at this point is the vette.
hell they are stopping production of the s-10 as well!
Last edited by TRU; Jan 16, 2003 at 05:24 AM.
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Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,463
From: SoCal
It is pretty much how phantasm99 put it. I can't say much more than yea he is very close. There is some deeper issues with the legal end of this deal with the CAW. Things that directly prevent the people listed from talking about anything. But remember this no deal lasts forever....
So like I have said on several occasians on this borad this is the quiet time and it needs to be this way. I also said the faithfulness of every F-body owner or lover will be tested. The drought of info will long and cold, so much so that few if any current members whom inhait this board will be here when any new real news breaks.
So like I have said on several occasians on this borad this is the quiet time and it needs to be this way. I also said the faithfulness of every F-body owner or lover will be tested. The drought of info will long and cold, so much so that few if any current members whom inhait this board will be here when any new real news breaks.
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 108
From: Plano,Tx
Originally posted by 99SilverSS
So like I have said on several occasians on this borad this is the quiet time and it needs to be this way. I also said the faithfulness of every F-body owner or lover will be tested. The drought of info will long and cold, so much so that few if any current members whom inhait this board will be here when any new real news breaks.
So like I have said on several occasians on this borad this is the quiet time and it needs to be this way. I also said the faithfulness of every F-body owner or lover will be tested. The drought of info will long and cold, so much so that few if any current members whom inhait this board will be here when any new real news breaks.
I'm going to buy a 05 Mustang, but I might also buy a 06/07 Camaro if GM decides to build it after the CAW mess ends in 05.
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
Backing up what silverSS and phantasm99 posted, the reason behind the gag order isn't that those in GM (especially Chevrolet)don't want to mention Camaro, and it's not that anyone owns the Camaro name, and it isn't that GM has forgotten Camaro. The reason they can't talk about Camaro doesn't directly have anything to do with a potential future Chevrolet Sports Coupe.
I will say look at what has already been said by GM people before it was retracted, and I'll also say Camaro is at the top of someone's priorities.
Take it from a GM basher & sacred cow prodder. GM DOES have a really good reason for not using or mentioning the Camaro name at the present time.
BTW, if it helps, there's an embargo on the use of the name Firebird as well.
I will say look at what has already been said by GM people before it was retracted, and I'll also say Camaro is at the top of someone's priorities.
Take it from a GM basher & sacred cow prodder. GM DOES have a really good reason for not using or mentioning the Camaro name at the present time.
BTW, if it helps, there's an embargo on the use of the name Firebird as well.
Last edited by guionM; Jan 16, 2003 at 11:19 AM.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 8,504
From: Ohio
Originally posted by guionM
Take it from a GM basher & sacred cow prodder. GM DOES have a really good reason for not using or mentioning the Camaro name at the present time.
Take it from a GM basher & sacred cow prodder. GM DOES have a really good reason for not using or mentioning the Camaro name at the present time.
(Feel free to IM me if you don't wanna post it
)
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Joined: Mar 2002
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Just wanted to take a second to clarify one thing....My second post was taken from DOUG HARDEN I just copied what he had originally posted.I wish I could take credit for that information, it was however not mine.
Thanks to IZ28 for posting the link that supplied the answer to my question.
Since the Contract with CAW will expire in 05, is it fair to assume that looking to the 06 model year is on target?
Thanks to IZ28 for posting the link that supplied the answer to my question.
Since the Contract with CAW will expire in 05, is it fair to assume that looking to the 06 model year is on target?
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,180
From: Yadkinville, NC USA
Originally posted by guionM
Take it from a GM basher & sacred cow prodder. GM DOES have a really good reason for not using or mentioning the Camaro name at the present time.
BTW, if it helps, there's an embargo on the use of the name Firebird as well.
Take it from a GM basher & sacred cow prodder. GM DOES have a really good reason for not using or mentioning the Camaro name at the present time.
BTW, if it helps, there's an embargo on the use of the name Firebird as well.
Read very carefully, looking for the words CAW, contract, Camaro, and Firebird. Look at the post date. I got ribbed for this kind of talk in other places... even called "crazy" to think GM would lose the rights to use their "own names". Crazy?
Yeah, crazy.
Like a fox.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 562
From: Mich.
You know whats extremely funny about all this.We are living 63 all over again.BUT back then the Camaro and Mustang were not out yet.We know the vehicles have been around since mid 60's and we think about all the history on both cars but now we have to wait instead of having them come to market with out knowing what they are about.
In April 04 the Mustang will be introduced (provided they dont have any issues like GM did with the 70 Camaro)
It will flood the market as it first did in 64/65.And when the introduction of the new camaro comes Im sure it flood the market as it did in 67 Im sure the new intro will fall on its 40th as well.
But hey Lets not say they are following Fords lead,Just reliving the past with them.
In April 04 the Mustang will be introduced (provided they dont have any issues like GM did with the 70 Camaro)
It will flood the market as it first did in 64/65.And when the introduction of the new camaro comes Im sure it flood the market as it did in 67 Im sure the new intro will fall on its 40th as well.
But hey Lets not say they are following Fords lead,Just reliving the past with them.
