As I watch C-SPAN...

...I can't help but feel that this is turning into nothing more then a open forum for Washington to publicly humiliate "the big 3."

I find it disgusting that Congress is spending so much time (and tax money) squabbling about issues that are in the past and making accusations that sometimes are just plain wrong.

I realize that what happened in the past with Detroit is very important, and shows that they are in need of a restructuring from the top down. I do also believe that Detroit KNOWS this. In my opinion they need to simply focus on the solution right now, not what the problem was because they all realize that there was a big problem.

I believe the Government knows something needs to be done soon and that they will loan Detroit the cash. They (government) need to lay their cards are on the table and tell Detroit, "if you need X amount of money this is what we expect or want in return in such and such amount of time." That's it, no more no less. Stop beating around the bush. I do not need to hear from the representative of the union of clean scientists and his opinion on fuel economy or any other party that does not have a direct impact on finding a solution. WHY ARE THEY DEBATING THE MERITS OF GOOD FUEL ECONOMY! Detroit knows fuel economy is the way of the future. It just seems like a waste of time and money.

This of course is based on MY opinion that the government WILL come in and LOAN the money to Detroit. In my opinion this circus atmosphere they have created appears to be wasteful, unproductive and overly humiliating for the extremely important and storied American automotive institution.

It may not matter if they loan the money or not. The U.S. Treasury dept. is talking about loaning them the money and that will side step all this.

In my opinion this circus atmosphere they have created appears to be wasteful, unproductive and overly humiliating for the extremely important and storied American automotive institution.

I agree, but you know there are plenty of folks at home that are just eating this up. :(

I think that is similar to most of America's (therefore their constituents) feelings towards the Big 3. Someone actually said that he heard GM had no new models or redesigns coming out next year!

It really does seem to me that there is a very prevelant hate of the big three by too many Americans (be it the media, congress or public) towards the Big 3. I have also noticed this lately.

I'm still trying to figure out why.....?

Jeff
:think:

It really does seem to me that there is a very prevelant hate of the big three by too many Americans (be it the media, congress or public) towards the Big 3. I have also noticed this lately.

I'm still trying to figure out why.....?

Jeff
:think:

I kind of understand their hatred because it stems from ignorance. They look at it as simply a handout for bad business practices. "Rewarding failure" so to speak. I say I understand because I have the same hatred for those who want to bail out people in over their heads with their homes because of their own faults.

I can think of two things.

1) congress is not the most efficient. They showboat, ramble and essentially drag important and non-important issues alike into a boring circus show. Watching congress is like sticking your hand in a chipper shreader.

2) general public angst towards the Big three is just a reasonable reaction to the facts. What doesn't help is the current economy. Anybody who isn't in the auto industry is looking at this like WTF, i'm getting my butt handed to me and no one is coming to help me. Then they hear the facts of how and why the Big three are in this situation and you can't help but again say WTF. They did this this and this.........now we consider giving them money.

I kind of understand their hatred because it stems from ignorance. They look at it as simply a handout for bad business practices. "Rewarding failure" so to speak. I say I understand because I have the same hatred for those who want to bail out people in over their heads with their homes because of their own faults.

I suppose I should have been clearer.....Hatred BEFORE these loan (I don't want to use the term bailout) talks started. Years and years ago.

I suppose I should have been clearer.....Hatred BEFORE these loan (I don't want to use the term bailout) talks started. Years and years ago.

I would assume that comes from reading things like Consumer Reports and cnn ratings.

I don't mind them giving the Big 3 a hard time as they deserve a lot of it. I just wish they would have gone this far publically with each of the financial institutions who've received Fed loans or included in the bailout. If they had really gotten into AIG, Citigroup and Bear Sterns like they are with the auto companies I think we would be really appalled at what would have been said.

I just wish they would have gone this far publically with each of the financial institutions who've received Fed loans or included in the bailout.

I completely agree. The only criticism I've heard in talking to other people was the AIG resort fiasco. Again, many were simply uninformed about it.

It's congress, the same people who wasted how much time having hearings over baseball steriods.

Because the constitution says congress' duty is to regulate commerce, coin money, declare war and supervise baseball. :rolleyes:

So the big 3 somewhat screwed up but a lot of the immediate problem is sales are down period because the country is Fked. An economy congress helped to screw up.
So now we have congress trying to tell the big 3 what to do.
The same congress who started healthcare and social security programs where you were legally forced to pay taxes in to, yet congress still ran those in to bankruptcy.
This congress is now telling the big 3 how to sell cars, with the obvious disadvantage that no one is legally forced to buy one. :rolleyes:

Stayed tuned as jeffery domer trys to sort it all out in a segment called, can't we all just get along..

It's a big circle of idiocy.

The same people who bitch and moan about there not being any good jobs in our country are the same people that buy foreign cars and beat their drum as to why American cars suck.

Go figure.

It's a big circle of idiocy.

The same people who bitch and moan about there not being any good jobs in our country are the same people that buy foreign cars and beat their drum as to why American cars suck.

Go figure.

As long as foreign cars are built in the US and domestic car companies outsource, I don't see a problem with that.

As long as foreign cars are built in the US and domestic car companies outsource, I don't see a problem with that.


People have a choice to buy what they want, but they are awful hypocritical when they complain about the results of their own actions.

I don't disagree with you in philosophy, but how would buying a camry cause americans to lose jobs?

We should want as many plants as we can get here, no matter the name plate. More jobs = better for everyone.

It's congress, the same people who wasted how much time having hearings over baseball steriods.

Because the constitution says congress' duty is to regulate commerce, coin money, declare war and supervise baseball. :rolleyes:



:lol: I was just thinking about MLB when watching a little of the Big 3 hearings and how much they are alike from the Senate Committee side. They just love to make a big show on our tab.

I don't disagree with you in philosophy, but how would buying a camry cause americans to lose jobs?

IMO, the order of "best to the American Economy", car purchases would be:

1) American nameplate build in USA.
2) American nameplate built out of USA.
3) Foriegn nameplate built in USA.
4) Foriegn nameplate built out of USA.

You may question the rankings of 2 & 3 as many would, and my answer is that while purchasing a foriegn nameplate car that was built in the US (Camry in your example) does help those workers of Toyota at that plant, buying an American nameplate car built outside of the USA supports a U.S. company that provides MANY MANY times more jobs to the USA than the foriegn competitors.

IMO, the order of "best to the American Economy", car purchases would be:

1) American nameplate build in USA.
2) American nameplate built out of USA.
3) Foriegn nameplate built in USA.
4) Foriegn nameplate built out of USA.

You may question the rankings of 2 & 3 as many would, and my answer is that while purchasing a foriegn nameplate car that was built in the US (Camry in your example) does help those workers of Toyota at that plant, buying an American nameplate car built outside of the USA supports a U.S. company that provides MANY MANY times more jobs to the USA than the foriegn competitors.


Exactly. I think you have it listed correctly, where does the profit go? If it comes here, good for the corporation and all the other jobs it supports. If it goes to some other country, all we get are a few hundred manufacturing jobs.

I guess I'm just much less of a fan of outsourcing than you are, but I see your point.

I guess I'm just much less of a fan of outsourcing than you are, but I see your point.


Oh, do not get me wrong... I *HATE* when I see American car companies build vehicles outside the USA.

Hate it.

But it's still the lesser of several evils, IMO.

If you notice, my current vehicles are all assembled in the USA, though I have owned or leased other GM vehicles built out of the US (99 Z28, 02 Monte SS, 04 GTO) in the past.

IMO, the order of "best to the American Economy", car purchases would be:

1) American nameplate build in USA.
2) American nameplate built out of USA.
3) Foriegn nameplate built in USA.
4) Foriegn nameplate built out of USA.

You may question the rankings of 2 & 3 as many would, and my answer is that while purchasing a foriegn nameplate car that was built in the US (Camry in your example) does help those workers of Toyota at that plant, buying an American nameplate car built outside of the USA supports a U.S. company that provides MANY MANY times more jobs to the USA than the foriegn competitors.


This thread: http:
//www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=491386&highlight=pittsburgh+post+gazette (http://www.camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=491386&highlight=pittsburgh+post+gazette)

Makes me agree with that order.

I don't disagree with you in philosophy, but how would buying a camry cause americans to lose jobs?

It may be BUILT in the USA, but consider the following:

Where were the parts made?
Where was the car designed?
Where was it engineered?
Where were the parts engineered?
Where is the management team located?
Where are the service manuals written?
Where are the marketing people located?
Etc., etc.

They may have some support in the US, but most of it is based outside the country. Guess what, it takes people working to do this stuff.

I don't mind them giving the Big 3 a hard time as they deserve a lot of it. I just wish they would have gone this far publically with each of the financial institutions who've received Fed loans or included in the bailout. If they had really gotten into AIG, Citigroup and Bear Sterns like they are with the auto companies I think we would be really appalled at what would have been said.

+1 :yes:

It may be BUILT in the USA, but consider the following:

Where were the parts made?
Where was the car designed?
Where was it engineered?
Where were the parts engineered?
Where is the management team located?
Where are the service manuals written?
Where are the marketing people located?
Etc., etc.

They may have some support in the US, but most of it is based outside the country. Guess what, it takes people working to do this stuff.

Do you know the answers to all of those questions personally? Do you know where the parts are made for US manufacturers?

Do you know the answers to all of those questions personally? Do you know where the parts are made for US manufacturers?

I would actually like to see a list of said compaonents with the manufacture of each item and all the data. I can bet that even cars MADE in the US are at least half foreign parts.

I would actually like to see a list of said compaonents with the manufacture of each item and all the data. I can bet that even cars MADE in the US are at least half foreign parts.

I would think so, too. The other thing is that the ones made in the US contribute to our GDP.

Just look at the window of a new car. There's a sticker that tells you how much of the parts are at least North American in origination.

Do you know the answers to all of those questions personally? Do you know where the parts are made for US manufacturers?

They were desgined and built by the same supplier as almost every other make. ;)

:lol:

They were desgined and built by the same supplier as almost every other make. ;)

:lol:

That's what I assumed as well.;)

They were desgined and built by the same supplier as almost every other make. ;)

:lol:

Of the 35 most popular U.S.-built 2008 and 2009 models — based on sales through May 31, 2008 — 43 percent of GM, Ford and Chrysler contenders had domestic content ratings of 75 percent or higher. In comparison, just 25 percent of the Nissan, Honda, Hyundai and Toyota models on the list achieved that.

Of the 35 most popular U.S.-built 2008 and 2009 models — based on sales through May 31, 2008 — 43 percent of GM, Ford and Chrysler contenders had domestic content ratings of 75 percent or higher. In comparison, just 25 percent of the Nissan, Honda, Hyundai and Toyota models on the list achieved that.

But all of the; V6 Honda engine valves, 4cyl Toyota engine valves, and Kia, Honda, and Hyundai AWD units, are built within 10 miles of my house in SC. :lol:

...I can't help but feel that this is turning into nothing more then a open forum for Washington to publicly humiliate "the big 3."

Congressional hearings are nothing more than a show to try and make the people of the land believe that our elected officials actually care about us.

Of the 35 most popular U.S.-built 2008 and 2009 models — based on sales through May 31, 2008 — 43 percent of GM, Ford and Chrysler contenders had domestic content ratings of 75 percent or higher. In comparison, just 25 percent of the Nissan, Honda, Hyundai and Toyota models on the list achieved that.

I actually had a friend of mine tell me that his aunt was upset when she found out that a large majority of the parts in her Acura came from the states/Canada. She perceives parts for automobiles made in Japan to be superior. Sad I know.

Im glad I am not the only one watchign this. screaming at the TV about the BS the reps are saying the the CEO's. ANd seeing them cower like kids getting reprimands.
Rick and the rest try to put up arguments but its ignored. and one of the guys wanting to kill this has foreign nameplates in his state..wonder why???

I wish one of them would of said wait a min thats just a flat out lie..but when your begging for money then you really cant stand your ground.

The gov will be the ruin of this country

will??? how bout already did and has ..hahaha

Our gov't......wasteful and unproductive, hate for the Big 3....no way!! I can't believe it...! QFT>>>"The gov will be the ruin of this country"! A gov't elected by the people, so IMO it's the people who are even more at fault, for the ruination of this country!

Im glad I am not the only one watchign this. screaming at the TV about the BS the reps are saying the the CEO's. ANd seeing them cower like kids getting reprimands.
Rick and the rest try to put up arguments but its ignored. and one of the guys wanting to kill this has foreign nameplates in his state..wonder why???

I wish one of them would of said wait a min thats just a flat out lie..but when your begging for money then you really cant stand your ground.

It's all power-play and deception.

The automakers have to humbly ask for money but some members of Congress believe it's well within their jurisdiction to make inaccurate generalizations and personal attacks towards the respective CEOs.

Meanwhile, others are there as puppets for the banks... and they will not support the automakers' plight.

Our gov't......wasteful and unproductive, hate for the Big 3....no way!! I can't believe it...! QFT>>>"The gov will be the ruin of this country"! A gov't elected by the people, so IMO it's the people who are even more at fault, for the ruination of this country!

Dont blame the people..it is the goverment. We lost control of our right as a people a while ago and now people are realizing it, well maybe a few are most are not. This last presidential election was a shame reguardless of who you voted for. Its almost like a most populat in class honor now get to be president.
Just totally bizzare how we think we run this country yet we have no control over it.

Change?? yea change all right..to less of we the people and more wethe controlled and uninformed.

It's all power-play and deception.

The automakers have to humbly ask for money but some members of Congress believe it's well within their jurisdiction to make inaccurate generalizations and personal attacks towards the respective CEOs.

Meanwhile, others are there as puppets for the banks... and they will not support the automakers' plight.

yea and the banks just have to say...... fk you guys were are going to close doors, if you bitc.hes don't give us cash we'll F you in the A.

AHHAAHHAHAHH screw you!

Dont blame the people..it is the goverment. We lost control of our right as a people a while ago and now people are realizing it, well maybe a few are most are not. This last presidential election was a shame reguardless of who you voted for. Its almost like a most populat in class honor now get to be president.
Just totally bizzare how we think we run this country yet we have no control over it.

Change?? yea change all right..to less of we the people and more wethe controlled and uninformed.

the dems are just going to sit around their camp fire saying " the reps did it"

It really does seem to me that there is a very prevelant hate of the big three by too many Americans (be it the media, congress or public) towards the Big 3. I have also noticed this lately.

I'm still trying to figure out why.....?

Jeff
:think:

Perception... The media promotes the perception of the domestics as negative. And the average american is too ignorant to figure out the truth.

I don't believe Chrysler should get a bridge loan as their parent, Cerberus, is not in any financial trouble. Therefore I agree with this Congressman's viewpoint...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122879883156890981.html?mod=yahoo_hs&ru=yahoo