Who would buy a Turbo Kit?

Lets say hypotheitcally that someone came out and said they were going to offer a Turbo kit for the V6 Camaro with;
8 lbs of boost
mild tune to reach good mileage and power
free flow exhaust
efficient intercooler
fitted piping
free flow exhaust
free flow intake
FPR and Fuel pump booster

and it was going to offer a 50% increase in peak power (450 plus hp)

Let's say the retail price was under $4500,

Would you buy it?

Unless for some reason you got stuck with getting a V6 and wanted more power later on what would be the point? For most likely the same amount of money for the V8 you get similar power and a beefier drivetrain all under warranty with room to easily go up in power from there.

Dealer installed so I still have a warranty...I would consider it

With a CR of over 11:1, I don't see 8lbs of boost being an option, unless the the VVT could be programmed to allow some bleeding off of the boost, to prevent the engine from breaking parts. You can barely run 5-6lbs of intercooled boost on the LT1, which "only" has 10.5:1, with any reliability.

With DI and good programming, it can be done.

Even still at 5 lbs of boost from a smaller turbo, you can get about the same hp as the V8, but gas mileage might actually improve over the stock V6 if the tuning is done correct.

With DI and good programming, it can be done.

Even still at 5 lbs of boost from a smaller turbo, you can get about the same hp as the V8, but gas mileage might actually improve over the stock V6 if the tuning is done correct.
:yes: Decent power, and better mileage when you're not on it!

Though I wouldn't buy this from the factory (I'd get the SS for the money...) I would seriously consider this 3-5 years down the road as a GMPP product, or any other aftermarket setup, really.



(I'll be looking for STS to come out with something, specifically.;))

With a CR of over 11:1, I don't see 8lbs of boost being an option, unless the the VVT could be programmed to allow some bleeding off of the boost, to prevent the engine from breaking parts. You can barely run 5-6lbs of intercooled boost on the LT1, which "only" has 10.5:1, with any reliability.

Doesn’t the LT recommend premium? GM says to put regular in the LLT so I think that if you used premium in it you could safely boost it a few more pounds.

I’d love one if it was factory, but I’d be pretty hesitant going aftermarket since DI is so new.

Doesn’t the LT recommend premium? GM says to put regular in the LLT so I think that if you used premium in it you could safely boost it a few more pounds.

I’d love one if it was factory, but I’d be pretty hesitant going aftermarket since DI is so new.

For the LTX based engines, GM recommended premium fuel. My knowledge of DI and forced induction is limited (aka none), so my statements are based on what I have seen with LT and LS based engines. But, with DI and VVT, I'm sure you can get by with more boost, assuming the engine is tuned properly for the set boost level.

:yes: Decent power, and better mileage when you're not on it!

Though I wouldn't buy this from the factory (I'd get the SS for the money...) I would seriously consider this 3-5 years down the road as a GMPP product, or any other aftermarket setup, really.



(I'll be looking for STS to come out with something, specifically.;))

Ouch, if I can ever get some things to fall my way, I would like to offer a turbo kit for the Camaro and other cars.

I would LOVE a V6 Camaro with an APS style TT kit.

Ouch, if I can ever get some things to fall my way, I would like to offer a turbo kit for the Camaro and other cars.
:( Sorry about that...
I just like the whole rear-mount thing...there's something about it......:shrug:

lol.... you guys aint getting a turbo kit with intake/exhaust/intercooler/tuning for under $4500. :lol:.. so why even bother asking?

lol.... you guys aint getting a turbo kit with intake/exhaust/intercooler/tuning for under $4500. :lol:.. so why even bother asking?

You never know, some said we would never see a new Camaro again so why bother asking.

If anyone can deliver a nice and affordable package, GMPP can.

8 lbs of boost?
I would want more like 19 lbs of boost (ala GNs and Solstice GXPs).

I think there would defiantely be a market for it. And as far as some concerns on the Compression ratio, thats the great thing about Direct Injection. You can get away with greater compression pressures. Compare the compression ratio of the LLT to the LS3.

The key to the kit would be weight. If you could get it to still weigh less than the SS, then you'll really have something!

I certainly wouldnt. I mean might as well by a SS which you know does the job stock.

I would! Im willing to bet that 3.6 could handle 16psi of boost and 21° of timing on 92 octane and some methanol.

The crank rods and pistons are supposedly very strong, only time will tell.

Since the car already has 2 wide band 02 sensors and individual cylinder knock detectors, tuning should be a breeze once we get around the Direct Injection.

I would love to set the engine target a/f at 10.6 and turn up the boost (safely)

I too know nothing about DI with a turbo added, but thats not going to stop me from learning and trying it out!

WISH LIST:
67BB T-4 GTS TURBO
3 1/2 INCH DOWNPIPE 60MM EXTERNAL GATE
DUAL METHANOL INJECTION
6L90 or beefed up 6L80 transmission
TARGET AIR FUEL RATIO
Some type of recording device to piggy back the stock ecm.

If it cant be done, i will stick a turbo buick motor in it!

BW

I would! Im willing to bet that 3.6 could handle 16psi of boost and 21° of timing on 92 octane and some methanol.

The crank rods and pistons are supposedly very strong, only time will tell.

Since the car already has 2 wide band 02 sensors and individual cylinder knock detectors, tuning should be a breeze once we get around the Direct Injection.

I would love to set the engine target a/f at 10.6 and turn up the boost (safely)

I too know nothing about DI with a turbo added, but thats not going to stop me from learning and trying it out!

WISH LIST:
67BB T-4 GTS TURBO
3 1/2 INCH DOWNPIPE 60MM EXTERNAL GATE
DUAL METHANOL INJECTION
6L90 or beefed up 6L80 transmission
TARGET AIR FUEL RATIO
Some type of recording device to piggy back the stock ecm.

If it cant be done, i will stick a turbo buick motor in it!

BW


16psi is a stretch. I'd say with very optimal tuning and maybe additional alcohol injection, 12 psi might be doable.

However I don't also know what the stock block will take. At optimal flow and intercooling, 16 lbs equals over 650 hp. With that, I'd say a billet crank, rods and forged pistons with a lowered CR would be a good idea unless you like grenades. Then when you get to that point and have enough turbo to feed it and enough fuel (and enough port work) you'll probably be able to go higher. While you're at it, billet cams, upgraded springs and retainers would be a good idea as well. Of course the exhaust and intake would need to be very free flowing.

I think the best way to approach it for affordability and marketability would be a 5-6 lb kit with a smaller turbo for quick spooling and a high flow intercooler and plumbing without kinks or large angles. Then when that is accepted up by the market your customers can help you develop bigger and better systems. You will always get the guys pushing more and more boost through it and trying things here and there, swapping in the bigger turbo, etc.

At only 14.7 lbs, theoretically, you're at 600hp (if you can keep the intake charge temp the same as a unboosted set up and unrestricted flow). IMHO a V6 turbo kit would be optimal to make a lightweight car with stock V8 beating power and not excessive power. 450 hp is not unrealistic. Plus if someone swaps in racing seats, strips the insulation and sound deadener, and swaps the stock body pieces for fiberglass or CF, etc etc, when you add a suspension kit with coil overs and control arms, a tubular K-member and big brakes, you'll have a Camaro V6 that will get better mileage than stock when not in the boost, and a car that will hand a stock SS it's ass at the track.

I know some of you are adding up the figures, so am I. As someone who works with the companies that make CF parts, suspension systems, brake kits, racing seats, and turbo kits, I could put this package together for about 5k at my cost.

16psi is a stretch. I'd say with very optimal tuning and maybe additional alcohol injection, 12 psi might be doable.

However I don't also know what the stock block will take. At optimal flow and intercooling, 16 lbs equals over 650 hp. With that, I'd say a billet crank, rods and forged pistons with a lowered CR would be a good idea unless you like grenades. Then when you get to that point and have enough turbo to feed it and enough fuel (and enough port work) you'll probably be able to go higher. While you're at it, billet cams, upgraded springs and retainers would be a good idea as well. Of course the exhaust and intake would need to be very free flowing.


At only 14.7 lbs, theoretically, you're at 600hp (if you can keep the intake charge temp the same as a unboosted set up and unrestricted flow).


Great post man, i got to hand it to you for taking the time to bring up some very great points.

I wasnt suggesting those items i listed should be in a kit for the average guys, maybe what i meant or should have said, is those are the parts that i would use and try myself before offering a kit for the new camaro.

First and foremost, we have to figure out how much power the engine will take boosted, if it scatters at 6psi, maybe the rods arent as strong as intended.

Since we are dealing with a new breed of technology, we are all on a new learning curve... This motor is getting away with 11.3:1 on 87 octane making around 311 horsepower in a 3700 lb car, that its incredible!

Personally, i wouldnt worry about porting and polishing, swapping in camshafts, reconfiguring new pistons..

I would be more interested in back pressure before and after the intercooler, then in the exhaust to find the optimum sized combination.

Certainly the new block is stronger than the old 3.8 that came in the Turbo buicks, we normally can get 600HP to the TIRES in a stock block with nothing but a girdle, rods and pistons.

The late 1985 all 86,87 and 88 3.8 na motors were only rated for around 130hp,:lol: That same block handles over 600 to the tires now with a 70mm turbo, 83# injectors, and the boost turned up.

This 3.6 has to be stronger than the old 3.8, just look at what the FWD 3.8 guys are doing with the newer FWD block, its alot stronger due to its design.

Anyway, if the block is the same design as the series II 3.8, i think it could take alot of power.

With the methanol injection, your MAT's can be 5-10 degrees above ambient with the right setup. www.alkycontrol.com Good friend of mine and i have his kits on 5 of my turbo buicks, soon to be on my 9K 89 TTA


I cannot wait to see what happens when someone finally boosts a 3.6 DI injected car. Maybe we sould try it on a 08 3.6 DI CTS and see how it handles the power:yes:

BW

I definitely would. Pricing is key tho.

Great post man, i got to hand it to you for taking the time to bring up some very great points.

I wasnt suggesting those items i listed should be in a kit for the average guys, maybe what i meant or should have said, is those are the parts that i would use and try myself before offering a kit for the new camaro.

First and foremost, we have to figure out how much power the engine will take boosted, if it scatters at 6psi, maybe the rods arent as strong as intended.

Since we are dealing with a new breed of technology, we are all on a new learning curve... This motor is getting away with 11.3:1 on 87 octane making around 311 horsepower in a 3700 lb car, that its incredible!

Personally, i wouldnt worry about porting and polishing, swapping in camshafts, reconfiguring new pistons..

I would be more interested in back pressure before and after the intercooler, then in the exhaust to find the optimum sized combination.

Certainly the new block is stronger than the old 3.8 that came in the Turbo buicks, we normally can get 600HP to the TIRES in a stock block with nothing but a girdle, rods and pistons.

The late 1985 all 86,87 and 88 3.8 na motors were only rated for around 130hp,:lol: That same block handles over 600 to the tires now with a 70mm turbo, 83# injectors, and the boost turned up.

This 3.6 has to be stronger than the old 3.8, just look at what the FWD 3.8 guys are doing with the newer FWD block, its alot stronger due to its design.

Anyway, if the block is the same design as the series II 3.8, i think it could take alot of power.

With the methanol injection, your MAT's can be 5-10 degrees above ambient with the right setup. www.alkycontrol.com Good friend of mine and i have his kits on 5 of my turbo buicks, soon to be on my 9K 89 TTA


I cannot wait to see what happens when someone finally boosts a 3.6 DI injected car. Maybe we sould try it on a 08 3.6 DI CTS and see how it handles the power:yes:

BW


Well, after trying a few times to get into my other email account to retrieve my old password, I gave up and re-registered.

The problem is the old 3.8L blocks were iron, and the new 3.6L is aluminum. Granted while I do think with girdles and inserts it will take the power, even a 6 lb kit would make a really fast car. Also, a correctly matched turbo at 6 lbs will make more power than a wrong sized turbo would at 10 lbs. You're right about back pressure as well. The IC needs to be optimum for the boost amount, not too big, not too small.

I think combining a great tune with boosted Fuel and 6 lbs of boost, it'd be a fun car and get close to 400 hp. This would be an optimal entry level kit. To test it, I would put it to 6 lbs to base line the power, then test it at 7, 8, 9, and keep going until it pops. Then find out what broke, fix it with a upgraded part and do it again. I really don't think it would pop at 6 lbs. That is less than 1.5 times normal pressure.

Where are you located? I'd like to try it out on a CTS with a manual.

I know the old 3.8s were stout. My friend Art and I built one that broke an 87 Hardtop chassis using a stock knife edged crank, 350 forged rods and forged pistons. It was later put into a tubbed full chassis car that ran a 9.06
Before the swap in the street car with three passengers it ran down a 750rr :death:

I don't think an all out kit is the best route to go at first. However there will be the guys like yourself building up an engine to take 15-20 lbs of boost, and if I developed a kit that was used as the basis for them, all the better.

600 hp is an aweful lot of power. 300hp subjected to perfectly intercooled 14.5 lbs of boost with the right fuel supply, is 600 hp. The 2002 Ferrari 360 Modena had 390 hp. The 2004 Corvette had 350. 390 hp out of a low cost kit for the new Camaro would be a success. Especially when you know how to make them for low cost in low numbers (like I do).

The scary thing is when you say 311 off 87 octane. Would than then be 320 with premium? Or 410 hp on 5 lbs, 640 on 14.5 lbs? Crazy

I definitely would. Pricing is key tho.
This is absolutely true, or has at least been historically. The 3.8L aftermarket for Fbodies was always a pretty small niche... and a lot of the stuff we got was either piggy-backed off of the LT/LS cars or from development for the 3.8L W-Bodies. One of the problems was that the segment was very price sensitive. An FI kit that costs $6000 just wouldn't sell very well to 4th Gen V6ers. Who knows how the 5th will play out. If GM steps up with some decent dealer install kind of packages then perhaps we will see a fair amount of "performance enthusiasts" opt for the V6. Ultimately it will be sales numbers that determine what we can get from the aftermarket.

This is absolutely true, or has at least been historically. The 3.8L aftermarket for Fbodies was always a pretty small niche... and a lot of the stuff we got was either piggy-backed off of the LT/LS cars or from development for the 3.8L W-Bodies. One of the problems was that the segment was very price sensitive. An FI kit that costs $6000 just wouldn't sell very well to 4th Gen V6ers. Who knows how the 5th will play out. If GM steps up with some decent dealer install kind of packages then perhaps we will see a fair amount of "performance enthusiasts" opt for the V6. Ultimately it will be sales numbers that determine what we can get from the aftermarket.

Well,

I am talking to a guy who may finance a CNC pipe bender/cutter for me. With this, I'd offer budget stainless exhaust packages for a lot of different cars. If it gets going, the Camaro 6 and 8 will be one of the first few cars we'll do. Then if we can get some money coming in from that, he'll finance a turbo kit with exhaust. I know for a fact I can make the retail price 4500 or less, with intercooler, programmer and a good turbo, in addition to the other basic parts needed.

I definitely would. Pricing is key tho.

:yes::yes::yes:

5 years all V6 Camaros where slow.... 7-8 psi was considered the max

now you have v6 Fbody and FWD cars (same block different top end) in the MID 8'8

you have fully stock Fbody's in the high 11's :eek:

man FWD cars in the 9-10-11's and few V6 fbodys in the 11's

ons NA v6 Fbody made a 12.48

Racer doolittle has one NA 3800 II in the high 11's

so whne you say no boost? i say BS until proven impossible

5 years all V6 Camaros where slow.... 7-8 psi was considered the max

now you have v6 Fbody and FWD cars (same block different top end) in the MID 8'8

you have fully stock Fbody's in the high 11's :eek:

man FWD cars in the 9-10-11's and few V6 fbodys in the 11's

ons NA v6 Fbody made a 12.48

Racer doolittle has one NA 3800 II in the high 11's

so whne you say no boost? i say BS until proven impossible


Who said "no boost" ?

The guy backed out for the cnc machine, but I am still looking to get this done. Even at 7 lbs boost for the base Camaro, with proper intercooling that's a healthy 30 mpg 400 hp car.