Vac pump and ring seal

I just completed a vac pump (vp103 gzms) mod and took it (97ss - 383 - D1 - M6) out for a test voyage. It had alot more, and, power came on early and was unexpected. Guess it must be working. I dialed it in @ 1/3 atmosphere vac. Running JE -28cc pistons. I'm confused over how the ring seal works and the differenential pressure path over the ring pack. B.

The oil stays much cleaner (due to better ring seal and less blow-by???). The 2-baffel breather can is not a good selection for a recirc oil system (pump vane oiling fro street/ road use). I've decided to design my own catch can based on a centrifugal principal which should separate the oil mist droplets better.

Performance is like a whole new engine. Much more torque down low, and, faster engine rev acceleration. I did blowout the Random Tech cats (the bricks are loose inside the can). Sound like loose bolts in a can. Happy to offer information. Thanx CamaroZ28.com. B.

Anyone??? OK... Well, I designed a whole new oil/ air separator for the vac pump. A centrifugal design. Better @ removal of oil from the vac/air stream. And, a windage tray to catch and recover the oil to recirc to the vac pump for vane oiling for street use. With FI, I was always disappointed @ the performance untill I did this mod. Best mod I have done relative to performance. Loose everywhere on the street. Tons of fun. I hope that some of you consider this mod on your blown LT1. Thanx Camaroz28. B. (97ss 383 - D1)

Also... Since I do not know the rate of wear on the Vac_pump vanes (GZMS uses carbon fiber), I installed a simple 1/8 npt plug_port in the suction line. I can introduce a small amount of oil into the system to lube pump vanes. This is recirculated from the air receiver to the vac pump suction line. Something GZMS indicates is required for street applications. The vac system still shows good crankcase vac. The front bumper centrifugal vac air reciever handles oil better, and, allows better motor compartment space control. B. Thanx camaroz28.

why not use the inlet side of the D1 to pull vacuum?

There is alot of blowby with the typical centrifugal blower system. Vac pump seals the rings much better since it is pulling a vac (negative pressure) all the time under the piston (About 6 to 8" Hg @ 1200 rpm). Also, with a long 6" rod, the rotating assembly tends to increase the crankcase pressure with rpm. And, what the heck, not many have done this mod with 4th gen blown F_bod. So far, I am very pleased with the added performance. I did not get the information I wanted when I started this mod, but, I am willing to learn and venture on my own. Just offering information which is what camaroz28 is all about. B.

Hey I'd like one if you're offering one for sale. :D Actually I'm going to do the crankcase evac kit. Should be just as good I'd think.

Well, I only made a prototype vac air receiver, but, it would work with an evac kit. I mounted it inside the front bumper (near the Vac pump). With an evac system, the suction line would be a long distance. The vac receiver is only 6" long 3 1/2" dia exhaust tube (9" total length with filter). Capped @ 1 end. Other end has a 1 1/2" tube inserted along the length with a breather filter. I had some exhaust tube laying around, so, fabbed something up with the MIG welder. It was a fair amount of welding. 4th gen F_bodies sure don't have alot of space and usually require custom.

This may be in a bit into left field, but what design did you mimic for the centrifugal oil/air separator? I originally pictured something similar to a vortex protein-skimmer used in aquariums, or more recently in high-end home vacume cleaners.

Interesting idea... most of the vacume pumps I've seen just use a baffled catch can like you mentioned.

I'm awefully tempted to slap a vacume pump on my 396 w/6" rods and 12.5:1 compression. Probably not as big of gains as a blower car would see, especially since it's ring-gapped for NA use, but I'm curious if the large displacement, longer dwell time (6" rod) and high compression can still see some benefits from pulling 15" from the crank case.

Ideally I'd just wait and go dry-sump, lower the engine an inch or so, and tuck it farther back to the center of the car as well... but that's obviously a major project for someone who just got the car on the road 2 months ago. :) I need a summer off. (maybe just a stereo upgrade, or heated seats).

But a vacume pump seems pretty straight forward... weld on some vaccume ports in the valve covers, mount a pump to the AIR Pump slot, etc... not cheap, but it may be worth the ponies. :)

One more question... (in addition to the design-style of that fancy catch can)... do you have low-tension rings in your motor?

I have a 1/16, 1/16, 3/16 ring package (not low tension) with NA gapping for longitivity on the street. I've read several debates online about the benfits of a vacume pump for NA, standard tension rings.

Did you measure crank case pressure with the pump off? What's the max pressure it's set to pull? (i assume you have a valve limiting the max pressure).

I assume you wouldn't care about vacume at idle and cruise, as there shuoldn't be much blow-by and any vacum you pull is probably just loading the engine unnessesarily. Is there any way to tune the vacume curve (outside of buying smaller/larger pumps and adjusting the max pressure via a valve?).

Definite conversation piece. :)

Anyone know if large turbo diesels benefit from a vacume pump? Seems like an obvious upgrade to a Duramax pick-up or a long-haul rig.

I have std tension plasma moly rings on JE -28cc bower pistons. The vac pump receiver is based on industrial fugative dust separator designs I have done in the past.

As an Engineer, I don't really understand why a linear baffeled design is used in most aftermarket products. Oil (in mist form) is not easy to separate with a linear flow design. Vessel geometry cannot maintain high air velocity required for oil separation. I dropped $80 dollar for the one I purchased. Maybe I can sell it. I've found it does not work well for my application.

In the past, I used a VAC port on the blower suction side for crancase vac. Over time, some oil would still pass thru and make a mess of everything. That was with use of a baffeld catch can/ so-called separator. As reinterated, these designs do not maintain high air velocity for oil extraction. Some (most) of the oil mist is separated in the intercooler and intake manifold and create a mess before combustion chamber injestion. They also do not move adequate volumes of air from the crankcase.

I also designed/ fabed my own regulator. Could not find one that fitted my engine configuration. @ present, I have it adjusted @ 12" Hg vac for a wet sump oil system. Dry sumps can handle higher vac levels.

GZmotorsports has alot of information on vac pump application. I got many ideas (and parts) from these people. B.

you get any pics of this ????

Photobucket.com Ref LT1...

Photobucket.com Ref LT1...

i'll try try that ,,no link ??

crap ,,,,,,,,,,,:(:(:(:(

Anyone??? OK... Well, I designed a whole new oil/ air separator for the vac pump. A centrifugal design. Better @ removal of oil from the vac/air stream. And, a windage tray to catch and recover the oil to recirc to the vac pump for vane oiling for street use. With FI, I was always disappointed @ the performance untill I did this mod. Best mod I have done relative to performance. Loose everywhere on the street. Tons of fun. I hope that some of you consider this mod on your blown LT1. Thanx Camaroz28. B. (97ss 383 - D1)

Care to share your design fabrication pictures?

Sorry, no pics of the prototype oil separator yet. Here is a link to multiple pics I took @ fab and install. I have mode changes to the system, which are the vac pump receiver (oil separator). The GZMS unit did not work well for me. From multiple road tests, the vane oil system is working. How good I will not know untill this winter when I can disassemble the pump and measure the pump vanes. B.
http://s306.photobucket.com/albums/nn244/mzgp5x/vac_pump%20app%204th%20gen/?action=view&current=vac_reg_covermt.jpg

you have any pics of your mandrel for the vac pump?

Here is what I did...
Purchased a standard drive from GZmotorsports.
Made a 1.48" extension. ( Round 2" piece with a dowel pin/ 1.48" long))
Made a pilot on each piece to center the assembly. Note... the GZMS piece was re-machined due to excessive eccentricity.
I use a special hub that fits into the stock LT1 hub ( now I use a Thunder racing LT1 hub - Pioneer Mfg. They are a very nice piece with a key)
Since I run on the street (set-up for road racing), I do not use an agressive rpm drive (about a 65% drive). I followed the GZMS recommendations. For drag racing I would use a larger pulley on the pump (a 70% + DRIVE).
My GZMS pump (VP103) is mounted to the Rt. motor compartment Frame rail. I made a spring tensioner to load the single V-belt which is driven off the crank shaft.
So far, I am happy with the set-up.
With a wet sump system, you need a pressure regulator to allow 1/3 atmosphere vac. I made my own due to clearance problems.
I fabricated my own receiver tank since GZMS tank did not flow well for me, and changed the mount to inside the front bumper facia.
I'm not sure of your set-up, but, possibly i could offer help if you need assistance. I would not want to carry this communication over the camaroz28 site.
The vac system requires that you re-locate your rad forward with a FI application (I have a Procharger D1). It was alot of work, but worth it since it takes alot of heat off the engine compartment. I have since gone to Evans NPG waterless coolant for additional cooling (read HP1425 book). Don't understand why I have not seen interrest on camroz28 web-site, but WTH???
Yes, I like my system as I have it configured for FI. I have not seen any other system here in MI. Most people don't care anyway (alot of "shiners" here), and, they don't really know what they are looking at. SO... I'm not so hyped about what I did anymore, but, it works good.
Hope this helps. B.

I'm all motor and have planty of room etc.

My only concern now is a mandrel. I am using a keyed hub but the damper assembly is the ATI unit. I have an alt. on the pass side on the bottom.

I was going to get the kit to put the pump on the driver side head. saw your pics and everything also.....they helped some but my set-up is alot simpler than yours, I just bracket race. And I have alot more room so I think it will be easier too

I agree, Rt side of car is where you want it.
I think you would not need the 1.48" spacer since you do not have to clear the blower pulley drive (I run a 7.625"pd 12 rib pulley).
I would stay with the VP103 since it has fitting ports on the side and not the rear of the pump. Possibly you could use a round (cylindrical) spacer mount with a 7/16 fine thread clearance insert inside the hub with a 1/8 roll pin for a torque arm.
The regulator is easy to design, size the spring force and piston for 1/3 atmosphere. (5 psi) I stuffed mine in a valve cover 1.25" port. Yes, I could fabricate a second unit. I have tested it and it works well. GZMS was also asking how I did it. Very simple, and adjustable zero to 1 atm.
I think you could mount the pump to the front of the engine (3/8 - 16 thread mounts all over the place.) I fabricated all my own stuff, and, hope you can do the same.
I would try to place the pump low so you can clear the stock rad assembly, but, it is very tight inside a 4th gen MC with the way gm designed the rad system. There is not much room for an air receiver can. I still think the bumper is an ideal location. I fabricated mine from spare 3 1/2" exhaust pipe I had.
I would not do what I did for a NA aplication, but, I think you would be very happy with the increase in cylinder pressure.
I think it is the only way to go for a FI application even though alot of people still think exhaust/ intake evac is the easy solution. FI systems always ingest alot of oil with the evac method. I don't like blow-thru MAF systems on the pressure side since they tend to fail from oil passsage. Also, the intake manifold ingests alot of oil. Quite a mess. B.

With a wet sump system, you need a pressure regulator to allow 1/3 atmosphere vac. I made my own due to clearance problems. That's about 10" of vacume? sounds right... most manufacturers suggest 10" to 12" for max benfits without oiling isssues. How'd you make the tank?
I have since gone to Evans NPG waterless coolant for additional cooling (read HP1425 book). Don't understand why I have not seen interrest on camroz28 web-site, but WTH??? because it's been used with mixed success by several members and those they know. I saw two cars equpped with Evans, but they both ran hotter than a similarly equipped water coolant (by design). Frankly, you may have a coolant that resists boiling out to hotter temps, but the problem is that you STILL have the increased heat in the engine bay. Having an engine that runs 200* or 230* coolant means oil temps near 230 or 260*F respectively.

This means the engine bay gets radiated additional heat, the plastics and rubber hose have to be watched more carefully, and of course there are the ring gaps and other engine clearances that tighten-up at higher heats as everything expands. If you run synthetic oil and have a stock block (with generous OEM gaps/tolerances) you'll probably be fine... but for those running higher compression ratios and tighter ring gaps this could be a problem in hot summer trips.

Personally I use a 165 stat, e-pump, and 2" core radiator for my 396... I don't see the need to go with more expensive coolant and the accessories that go with it. Anything that keeps the opti and electrical harness cooler is a better solution IMO... and Evan's coolant just doesn't do that. Going out of your way to run hotter temps than normal isn't a great idea IMO.

No, I don't have an overheat problem. I ran a 160*F also with water glycol. It would run about 185*F steady state. I like Evans NPG. It's all there in HP books 1425 (Ray Bohaz). I have an aftermarket be-cool rad. It took 3 1/2 gal. (32.50/gal) The 2nd gen gm small block WP requires that the bypass port be plugged. So, I did that. No thermostat.