Canadian Pricing

As many of you well know, Canadians have been getting raped in terms of pricing when it comes to cars, books, CDs etc...

Given the strength of the Canadian dollar (and the fact that it will most likely remain strong, at or above parity, for the next dew years relative to the US dollar), do you think GM will start adjusting their prices more fairly? And please don't get me going on how it is the dealerships that set the price, I am talking MSRP - Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price - which GM has total control over.

I mean the top end loaded Camaro (not 'Maro!!!:mad:) will not be cheap...but if my memory serves me (based on previous years pricing gaps), it will be 10k or more here in Canada than in the US.

I realize that the Canadian market is much smaller than the US, but the Camaro will need every sale it can get to remain viable...and overcharging Canadians will hurt sales...IMHO.

The excuses for the price differential are lame to say it kindly (and don't you dare point out shipping/delivery...it is being built 45 minutes from my house!!!), but more to the point, if the Canadian dollar is at parity for the next year or so, than there is no reason other than corporate greed to keep a price difference.

I for one will not buy the Camaro if that kind of pricing is allowed to continue. I will send a message with my wallet. (I for one have no problems with the exterior, interior or anything else SOME people seem to be nitpicking about...the car is damn near perfect!!!:bow:)

Thoughts anyone? Scott? Jason?

BTW: Forgive me in advance if this has been posted about before...I am actually doing the budgeting now to see when I can actually buy one...

the MSRP should be pretty standard across the line i thing now that it is comparable in value (which is sad for both of our money). However in the end it WILL be the dealer who is going to rape you. you can find the price of a brand new car vary by a few thousand dollars all over the US.... So the pricing here is screwed as well. Take the Z06 vette.. I talked with the GM people. they listed it at $60,000 MSRP... dealers were selling them at $100,000. (can't remember the year that was.. i think 2 years ago maybe..i suck at timelines) I am sure the camaro will be similar because it will be a big thing again.

If the Camaro is priced considerably more in canada than in the U.S. I will either buy from the States or not at all. No B.S.

I wouldn't be too concerned. You made a great point about our market, it's small compared to the U.S. but that may be an advantage, remember, Chevy has a ton of competitors in our market. Last year I leased a Truck and used the companies competitors as leverage. I'm only paying $250/month on a Dodge Ram 4X4 with a HEMI at 0% lease. I've always preferred Chevy, but the dealer was a huge dick to me because the Silverado and Sierra had new models out so they wouldn't budge on price. Now it's not fair to compare the truck market to a sports car market, but the bottom line is that cars need to be sold. Every car on a dealers lot represents a loan from the bank, they have to move it. My suggestion is when you go in, look poor, bring your wife and tell her to bitch and moan about the car, compare the car to the Mustang, Challenger, Charger, don't include Japanese or European cars because that's another segment of the market. When I leased my truck I sat in the lease managers office for 2 hrs. He went from $350 a month to $250 because he "found" some new dealer incentives. This is a buyers market, DO NOT FORGET THAT!

The only thing I know I'll get screwed on in a Camaro is the Lease Rate, but hey! some dealers are willing to lease a vehicle through their dealership at 0% to 2%.

Anyways, right or wrong, that's my 2 cents.

It has been debated before, but car manufactures don't adjust MSRP overnight based on the currency value of one country over another. Say the Canadian dollar dropped 30% tomorrow. Would you expect the car manufactures do adjust the price so soon? I would think not.

All that being said, I bet the car is priced well in Canada when it is released since it will be new. But, I won't expect it to be a great deal for a fully loaded one either. You are comparing the US dollar vs the CA dollar. Depending upon where the components come from on the car, the price maybe the same as an equivalent Mustang today, but just a lot more expensive in the US.

It has been debated before, but car manufactures don't adjust MSRP overnight based on the currency value of one country over another. Say the Canadian dollar dropped 30% tomorrow. Would you expect the car manufactures do adjust the price so soon? I would think not.

All that being said, I bet the car is priced well in Canada when it is released since it will be new. But, I won't expect it to be a great deal for a fully loaded one either. You are comparing the US dollar vs the CA dollar. Depending upon where the components come from on the car, the price maybe the same as an equivalent Mustang today, but just a lot more expensive in the US.

But that's my point..if the Canadian dollar holds up over the next year (consistently at parity or above), than the argument over build costs is nullified since the currencies are of equal value. Thus MSRP should be about the same. That is not the case now. As I write this the CAD is $1.01 USD...but a Chevrolet Malibu LTZ MSRPs at $33,610 CAD and $27,445 USD (prices taken from gmcanada.com and gm.com respectively - without any options) - That's 24%!!!

Mind you the CAD has been hovering at parity for months now, how long until the prices start to even out? Months? Years? I still go into book stores and see the prices on the back be way off for example, and we are nearly 3 months into near parity consistently.

In Canada we have had news specials about people going south of the border buying cars at record levels...because on a comparably equipped vehicle the savings can be in the thousands (more so the higher end you go). It has gotten to be such a "problem" that the manufacturers are telling US dealerships not to sell to Canadians or threatening not to honor warranties etc...

I was hoping Scott may have a few words on this.

the MSRP should be pretty standard across the line i thing now that it is comparable in value (which is sad for both of our money). However in the end it WILL be the dealer who is going to rape you. you can find the price of a brand new car vary by a few thousand dollars all over the US.... So the pricing here is screwed as well. Take the Z06 vette.. I talked with the GM people. they listed it at $60,000 MSRP... dealers were selling them at $100,000. (can't remember the year that was.. i think 2 years ago maybe..i suck at timelines) I am sure the camaro will be similar because it will be a big thing again.

Angelis, I am not talking about dealer markup, I am talking about MSRP disparity when the currencies are nearly equivalent...dealer markup just adds salt to the wound for us Canadians.

The biggest problem with Canadians is we don't complain, so dealers / manufactures take advantage :bang:..... If you dont want to get screwed, DON'T BUY IN CANADA!!

Here's a link with all the info on how to import, If the Dealers don't smarten up, The informed will be going this route... ( I know I will !! )

http://www.importcartocanada.info/

If you're not comfortable doing this on your own, you can always hire a broker ( usually 4-6% of the purchase price ). Still a great deal.... Just for fun, I've looked into buying a Malibu LTZ ( $34,000 cdn, $26,000 U.S. ) same car / options. :shrug:, so You pay $1000-$1500 on top of the U.S. price, and they do it all for you.....

How about some of our U.S. delears who visit this site giving us Canucks a break.... Special :cz28: groupe U.S. rate ??? I'll fly down south to pick up my new wheels.

This has been a concern for me as well and at this point, I'm seeing a couple of positive signs from GM Canada, so I'm prepared to take a "wait and see" attitude until final Canadian and American pricing is announced.

Firstly, in October '07, GM Canada placed virtually all of its '08 cars, manufactured after Sept.1/07 for the U.S. market on Transport Canada's "Inadmissable" list of cars not allowed to be imported into Canada. The reason for this, ostensibly, was as a result of a Canadian regulation that came into effect on Sept.1 requiring all vehicles sold in Canada to have an anti-theft "Vehicle Immobilization System" installed. This does what the "Pass-Key II" system achieves with that little chip on the ignition key. Interesting that it is the manufacturers who voluntarily place vehicles on this list - not Transport Canada!

I thought it was coincidental that all '08 GM cars (exceptions being Saturn Astra, Chevy Aveo and a couple of Saab models) ended up on this list when there was such a disparity between Canadian and U.S. pricing, and I couldn't find any information documenting production changes between Canadian and U.S. spec cars!

I pursued this through GM Canada as I was looking at the price difference (in November) between a Z06 in the U.S. at $71K and the same car in Canada at approx. $98K!! The Canadian $ had already reached parity with the U.S. greenback by then. WTF! ... and to my knowledge there was no difference between the anti-theft equip on Canadian and American Corvettes!

I got into a dialogue via email with Mr. Stew Low, GM Canada's Director of Communications, regarding this issue and his response was that basically, Canadian pricing was comparable to U.S. pricing among popularly priced models. The Z06 issue was not addressed in his responses to me.

Fast forward to the week before Christmas and lo and behold, one of the Toronto Chevrolet dealers is advertising a brand new '08 Z06 for CDN$72K
http://www.chirpthird.com/vb/showthread.php?t=9803&highlight=Markville+chevrolet
BTW, it's still available as of this weekend! I was intrigued and called them up to get the scoop. I was informed that this huge price adjustment was a result of "some help" from GM Canada and a little bit more from the dealer.

A friend of mine who lives in Windsor went to his local dealer as a result of this info and purchased an '08 Z06 there. I know he had been considering purchasing one in the U.S.

This is one way GM Canada can pave the way future reductions in MSRP. A sudden drop in MSRP can wreak havoc with lease rates and their residual values and obviously with resale values as well.

Secondly. the upshot of this is that GM Canada has taken all of GM's U.S. spec cars off that "Inadmissable List", as of last month, with the exceptions being the '08 Solstice with rear spoiler and (of course!) '08 Corvettes!! No mention whatsoever of this "Vehicle Immobilizer" any longer! (Wonder what they changed to facilitate that, all of a sudden?!?;))
The reason given for the Solstice and 'Vette has to do with rear bumper impact standards, which I know are different in Canada than in the U.S. (5 mph vs. 2.5 mph).

I'm not through yet, because the '07 Vettes were allowed into Canada provided the rear bumper pad was changed. I know of at least 1 person who bought an '07 U.S. spec 'Vette and had to do this. I have also been told by a person working in their parts dept. that 1 dealer in Toronto has ordered 17 of those pads for customers who bought '06-'07 'Vettes in the U.S.and imported them into Canada... and this is not a high-volume Corvette dealer. Needless to say, nobody can confirm any production differences between '07 Vette rear bumpers (when they were admissable for importation) and '08 rear bumpers (that put the car on the "inadmissable" list)

If there is a significant enough price difference between U.S. and Canadian Camaros (a large enough difference to make it worth my while to buy one in the U.S. and import it) I will do it. Franchise agreements with dealers in the U.S. prevent them from selling to customers out of the country, but all you need to get around that is a good friend or relative with a U.S. address to take delivery...

Best regardSS,

Elie

if there is a considerable price gap between the U.S and Canadian price, i'll be buying south of the border as well.

Dealers are starting to feel it. Many are now importing all their used cars from the states. It is up to them to complain to GM to get a fair price on the product. All we have to do is buy in the US.

Will the Camaro even be offered to the Canadian market? Why not complain to your leaders asking them to stop over valueing your dollar?

I would expect the prices in the US to go up before the Canadian prices come down much.

Even when the 93,s first came out in Canada they were at least $5,000 more than the U.S and yet one dealer around here had another $2,000 markup besides(this was on z28,s):mad:but yea w/the dollar being par/above we are definitely being gouged on parts,magazines(esp) etc.The few parts i do buy i try p.u when i go down to U.S or even better,purchase used from the U.S and try get them shipped to our U.S address.Btw ,i also tried to buy a 04-06 Gto in U.S but b/c of our stupid bumper height laws was not possible!(sorry for getting off topic)

But that's my point..if the Canadian dollar holds up over the next year (consistently at parity or above), than the argument over build costs is nullified since the currencies are of equal value. Thus MSRP should be about the same. That is not the case now. As I write this the CAD is $1.01 USD...but a Chevrolet Malibu LTZ MSRPs at $33,610 CAD and $27,445 USD (prices taken from gmcanada.com and gm.com respectively - without any options) - That's 24%!!!

Mind you the CAD has been hovering at parity for months now, how long until the prices start to even out? Months? Years? I still go into book stores and see the prices on the back be way off for example, and we are nearly 3 months into near parity consistently.

In Canada we have had news specials about people going south of the border buying cars at record levels...because on a comparably equipped vehicle the savings can be in the thousands (more so the higher end you go). It has gotten to be such a "problem" that the manufacturers are telling US dealerships not to sell to Canadians or threatening not to honor warranties etc...

I was hoping Scott may have a few words on this.

I know what your point is, it has been debated before. Canada also might be having problems keeping assembly their because of the high CA dollar right now. This cost also must be accounted for. All manufactures are in this boat, not just GM. It is going to take a few manufactures changing their prices to make a real difference as well.

People are also used to paying a certain amount for cars. Car manufactures will keep the price close to what they public is used to. They can make more money on the cars now, but will make less on them later. But, they are much less willing to take losses and are much quicker to raise prices than to lower them.

As you mentioned, car companies are not the only ones having this problem, so why blame them for everything? Currencies change overnight, prices do not. It will fix itself eventually, but it won't be overnight. It may take a year or two.

$36,500 CAD MSRP for a base GT mustang, before options. tell me thats not robbery. my pops wants to get a mercedes E63 AMG up here in canada, but its unreal the price diff. 89,000 USD starting or 121,000 CAD starting. its out of control thats for sure!!

Will the Camaro even be offered to the Canadian market? Why not complain to your leaders asking them to stop over valueing your dollar?

I would expect the prices in the US to go up before the Canadian prices come down much.

Ummm...HELLO...yes it will be offered here...ffs it is being built here!:confused:

Our leaders do not directly control the value of the dollar...no government does...it is a market thing.

Sadly, you are probably right...the prices will most likely stay higher here...:cry:

The biggest problem with Canadians is we don't complain, so dealers / manufactures take advantage :bang:..... If you dont want to get screwed, DON'T BUY IN CANADA!!

Here's a link with all the info on how to import, If the Dealers don't smarten up, The informed will be going this route... ( I know I will !! )

http://www.importcartocanada.info/

If you're not comfortable doing this on your own, you can always hire a broker ( usually 4-6% of the purchase price ). Still a great deal.... Just for fun, I've looked into buying a Malibu LTZ ( $34,000 cdn, $26,000 U.S. ) same car / options. :shrug:, so You pay $1000-$1500 on top of the U.S. price, and they do it all for you.....

How about some of our U.S. delears who visit this site giving us Canucks a break.... Special :cz28: groupe U.S. rate ??? I'll fly down south to pick up my new wheels.

Bookmarked that site!!!

There is NO WAY the Canadian price will be close to the American MSRP, we as Canadians are going to get f&^%ed again, one main reason is if they put the price where is should be that would mean you will be able to buy a Camaro for the price of a G5 GT or a G6, that's not going to happen.

I am also a Honda dealer (ATV-MOTORCYCLES) we have been hammered hard by the people going to the USA to buy, and they still are, we had a meeting with Honda, trust me it got pretty loud, they told us pretty much that they were f**&^^ng us as Canadians they had no arguments, move ahead 3 weeks all of a sudden they come up with HUGE rebate on all atv's i am talking $3600 off right to the dealer, that's huge when our cost was $10,500CDN. anyway it worked great we sold out made money.

Now GM (and all the others) and all the others are doing the same thing, and they don't give a rats ass about Canadians they will keep screwing us as long as they can. All that being said i love GM i just bought a new Vette last year, i couldn't go to the states to buy it because i needed the lease rate etc. I also don't blame them for hosing us, the markets bears it, so they charge us. Am i happy about it? of course not.

Either the price comes down, or they can close their plant and get the hell out of the country and stop selling cars here. If I have to buy in the U.S. I will and to hell with them.

There is NO WAY the Canadian price will be close to the American MSRP, we as Canadians are going to get f&^%ed again, one main reason is if they put the price where is should be that would mean you will be able to buy a Camaro for the price of a G5 GT or a G6, that's not going to happen.

I am also a Honda dealer (ATV-MOTORCYCLES) we have been hammered hard by the people going to the USA to buy, and they still are, we had a meeting with Honda, trust me it got pretty loud, they told us pretty much that they were f**&^^ng us as Canadians they had no arguments, move ahead 3 weeks all of a sudden they come up with HUGE rebate on all atv's i am talking $3600 off right to the dealer, that's huge when our cost was $10,500CDN. anyway it worked great we sold out made money.

Now GM (and all the others) and all the others are doing the same thing, and they don't give a rats ass about Canadians they will keep screwing us as long as they can. All that being said i love GM i just bought a new Vette last year, i couldn't go to the states to buy it because i needed the lease rate etc. I also don't blame them for hosing us, the markets bears it, so they charge us. Am i happy about it? of course not.

As what happened to you with Honda, the only change will come about when the dealers start yelling at the manufacturers.

As what happened to you with Honda, the only change will come about when the dealers start yelling at the manufacturers.

And they will only start yelling when we communicate our displeasure with our wallets...i.e.: not buying them in Canada (shipping them from US) or not buying at all. It is up to us to send the dealerships and GM Canada the message that we should not be fleeced.

Would Scott have any thoughts or comments on this?

And they will only start yelling when we communicate our displeasure with our wallets...i.e.: not buying them in Canada (shipping them from US) or not buying at all. It is up to us to send the dealerships and GM Canada the message that we should not be fleeced.

Would Scott have any thoughts or comments on this?

You're right but that won't happen, we are going to beat the door to the dealership with our wallets full of $$$, we will pay above retail, just like in 1993. GM doesn't really give a **** because the cars are being sold one way or the other. The only way it will change is by doing like we did, and tell the manufacturer to stop taking advantages of us.
J-P

I feel your pain dear Canadians.

PS Speaking of getting raped... never lose sight of us poor Aussies who will have to fork out a good $60-75K for a Camaro V8.

$AUD= 0.90$USD
$AUD= 0.90$CAD

GM Canada sets their own pricing based "marketing strategy" that is driven by "market conditions". Market conditions are a whole lot better in Canada now than they are in the U.S. so we can expect to continue to pay more for our cars ... from all the manufacturers. :(

What the dealers and manufacturers have going in their favor is that if you have a trade-in, want to lease, or want to take advantage of special finance rates, the option of buying south of the border is not available to you. Once you add the people that won't buy in the U.S. because of the inconvenience and risk, real or perceived, as a percentage of new car buyers/leasers those that would import from the U.S. are a very small number.

That said, 3 of the 5 vehicles in my sig were imported from the U.S. and I won't hesitate for a moment to do it again for a 5th gen if Canadian pricing is out of line.

Here's another link with information on importation. The only road block I've found, is that GM has informed all border dealer to NOT sell "new" cars to Canadians. I wouldn't mind picking up my second hand Camaro with 10 miles on the odometer. Hopefully we have a kind U.S.:usa: dealer amongst us who is willing to deal ;)

http://www.carburner.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

Here's another link with information on importation. The only road block I've found, is that GM has informed all border dealer to NOT sell "new" cars to Canadians. I wouldn't mind picking up my second hand Camaro with 10 miles on the odometer. Hopefully we have a kind U.S.:usa: dealer amongst us who is willing to deal ;)

http://www.carburner.com/index.php?title=Main_Page

Bookmarked that too!

I am very afraid that the Camaro will be priced too high here...looks like the Canadian economy is going to do well (especially compared to US) over the next year or two...so that means we will get screwed...now the only thing to worry about is if GM will try to pull the "no cross border warranty" crap that some of the other manufacturers have done...

Oh and I forgot to mention that members of the APA can get pre-negotiated prices on cars (I think $600 above cost - dealer invoice) - I looked into that a while ago but never followed through...if anyone has done that, please post your experience here.

Bookmarked that too!

I am very afraid that the Camaro will be priced too high here...looks like the Canadian economy is going to do well (especially compared to US) over the next year or two...so that means we will get screwed...now the only thing to worry about is if GM will try to pull the "no cross border warranty" crap that some of the other manufacturers have done...

Oh and I forgot to mention that members of the APA can get pre-negotiated prices on cars (I think $600 above cost - dealer invoice) - I looked into that a while ago but never followed through...if anyone has done that, please post your experience here.

GM franchise agreement with U.S. dealers prohibits these dealers from selling to customers outside the USA... but as long as the car is eligible for importation into Canada (unlike '08 'Vettes) all a U.S. dealer really needs is an American address to deliver it to... so all you need is a cooperative friend or relative living in the U.S.
Interesting how GM cannot prohibit their franchised dealers from selling vehicles at more than MSRP if the market will bear it, but at the same time have the ability to dictate that they are prohibited from selling to Canadians.
Dealers not close to the border don't seem to be getting these directions from GM either.

Best regardSS,

Elie

GM franchise agreement with U.S. dealers prohibits these dealers from selling to customers outside the USA... but as long as the car is eligible for importation into Canada (unlike '08 'Vettes) all a U.S. dealer really needs is an American address to deliver it to... so all you need is a cooperative friend or relative living in the U.S.
Interesting how GM cannot prohibit their franchised dealers from selling vehicles at more than MSRP if the market will bear it, but at the same time have the ability to dictate that they are prohibited from selling to Canadians.
Dealers not close to the border don't seem to be getting these directions from GM either.

Best regardSS,

ElieBlame U.S. laws for that one.

The Camaro will likely be priced comparable to the mustang. If it's more up there, so will the camaro be.

Forget cars for now, I went to Banff (Half hour drive) I bought a bottle of five alive and a small coffee for the wife...$7.49 :canada:

Now for cars, if our dollar wasn't so strong, i would have got anywhere between $15,000-$16,000 for my 95 Z28. :cry:

Forget cars for now, I went to Banff (Half hour drive) I bought a bottle of five alive and a small coffee for the wife...$7.49 :canada:


Don't forget that is Banff, where everything carries a 1000% markup...