Mechanical or electrical gauges???

I want an Oil Pressure Autometer gauge and a water temp gauge for my 2002Z. But I don't know which to get Mechanical or electrical???
Plz help.

I don't know which is better really, but a cool thing to get are the fluid filled ones. Check them out, I put a temp gauge on my GTO that is fluid filled and I like it.

It depends on what guages you are doing... really you should use electrical for all of them and either tie into the PCM or buy a sending unit. This way you dont have to run any sort of vacuum/oil/nitrous/etc from the engine bay into your face...

for both oil and water temp you should be able to tie into the PCMs output to the guage cluster, right?
Someone back me up here, the only real experience I have with guages was on my 99 v6 which had a different setup for the guages ( hehe, no tach output to the guage cluster?!?! what kind of crap is that... )

Really there is no reason for fluid filled guages ( unless of course you like the look and dont mind paying the money ). They are for use in drag cars and race cars that vibrate constantly ( bad idle, dirt track, etc... ) . The liquid stops the needle from jumping around.


~Brian

For the temp guage, don't go off the PCM output signal if you have a '99-'02 F-Body. We have (what I call) Idiot gauges. :rolleyes: In the old days, the mchanical gauges were more accurate, but very dangerous. Now, the electrical guages are just as accurate and safe. (for reason posted by DeathBuzzz). Best bet would be to use a seperate sender for the oil/water gauges.

Originally posted by MRZ28HO
For the temp guage, don't go off the PCM output signal if you have a '99-'02 F-Body. We have (what I call) Idiot gauges. :rolleyes: In the old days, the mchanical gauges were more accurate, but very dangerous. Now, the electrical guages are just as accurate and safe. (for reason posted by DeathBuzzz). Best bet would be to use a seperate sender for the oil/water gauges.

If I don't tap into the PCM then where??
And it sounds like you guys are for electrical gauges:cool:

what MRZ28HO was saying is that for a water temp guage, buy a sending unit for it. The temperature guages in F-bodys are not very accurate and as opposed to using the non-accurate feed from the PCM to the guage cluster, just use a completely seperate system ( i.e. buy a sending unit and guage from autometer, install the sending unit, and connect the guage to it ). This would make if waaaay more accurate and it would be autonomous from the rest of the car. I mean, if you are just doing this for looks, then you can tap the PCM wire, but the guage will be just like the stock guage in the cluster. If you want it to read correctly what the temp is, then pay the money for a sending unit ( an actual sensor that reads the temp, converts the info to an electrical signal and sends it to the guage ).

hope that helps,

~Brian

Thanks Brian, that does help. So after I install the "stand alone" sending unit, does that kill the stock temp gauge? Or is it because its a "stand alone" the stock one will still function? I don't suppose you know off the top of your head how much the sending modual is:bow:
This is not just for looks also. I really want to know what the car is running on both the oil pressure and the h20 temp.
It also sounds like the h20 gauge I need is a mechanical one???

Hmmmmmm...

I am not really sure which guages come with sending units. I know for a fact that electrical fuel pressure guages come with their own sending unit. I have no idea how a mechanical H2O guage works so you will have to do some research on that. ( again, i would use electrical for them all ).

I would call autometer or see if anyone else replies about the sending units and if they come with the guages. You should find someone on the board that has these guages and ask them how they set them up ( i would bet that a lot of turbo/sc/stroker guys would have the oil pressure guages ). As far as temp guage, i dont know how the PCM interacts with its unit or how it sends the signal to the cluster. If the only problem with the stock guage is the guage itself being inaccurate and the sender/thermistor is reasonably accurate ( and the right volt/amp/wave is sent from the computer to the cluster ) for the autometer, then you should jsut tap the PCM wire. Again, find someone with this guage and ask them how they did it. That would be the best way to do it.


Yes, any guage on the guage cluster will function normally when you add another ( unless you disconnect it, but there is no reason to ).


Summary: Just find someone on the board with these guages and ask them about their setup. :D

~Brian

Ok, i did some looking around:

Most Autometer electrical guages come with the sending unit. look at these #3337 and #3327.

Sport Comp Guage List (http://www.autometer.com/hp/2001_catalog/competition/45.html)


On jegs.com you have to buy a $9 wiring kit for them... $9, no big deal... Jegs Guages (http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1559&prmenbr=361)

Heh, so there you go...

~Brian

Why not to tap into the output signal of the PCM to the guage cluster ... It has been varified by many on LS1.com and LS1Tech.com that the PCM receives the proper signal from the sender, but the PCM just gives a bogus value to the cluster ... that is why you don't want to tap into the guage cluster wiring. Also, I don't know if the resistance value of the OEM sender is the same as (say) Autometer's guages (typically not). I would highly recommend getting electrical guages, unless you don't mind running the risk of hot coolant/oil being accidentialy spilled (due to the lines going to the back of the guage breaking) at you or your interior. :eek: Who cares if the OEM still functions, you have an accurate aftermarket guage. :confused: It won't affect it if you use a seperate sender. :)

Originally posted by MRZ28HO
Why not to tap into the output signal of the PCM to the guage cluster ... It has been varified by many on LS1.com and LS1Tech.com that the PCM receives the proper signal from the sender, but the PCM just gives a bogus value to the cluster ... that is why you don't want to tap into the guage cluster wiring. Also, I don't know if the resistance value of the OEM sender is the same as (say) Autometer's guages (typically not). I would highly recommend getting electrical guages, unless you don't mind running the risk of hot coolant/oil being accidentialy spilled (due to the lines going to the back of the guage breaking) at you or your interior. :eek: Who cares if the OEM still functions, you have an accurate aftermarket guage. :confused: It won't affect it if you use a seperate sender. :)

OK after going cross eyed at Auto Meters site, the best gauges I found was the electrical. You guys were a ton help and I appreciate it.
~~Brian, your right about the oil and water in my interior, NOT A GOOD THING!!!
Thanks again guys:bow: :D

Run electrical guages. Mechanical gauges are typically installed outside the car (i.e. below the rear vent of a cowl hood outside the windshield). Most mechanical gauges require you to run hoses from the particular location your gauge reads. These gauges are installed outside for safety reasons (i.e. hose blowing etc).

94B&RZ-28

you spelled Matt Harlan's name wrong in your sig

WE WORK TOWARDS HELPING YOU, NOT TOWARDS MAKING MONEY!


if that was true you would be out of buisness :)

Originally posted by PhantomTA
94B&RZ-28

you spelled Matt Harlan's name wrong in your sig

Thanks Dave, it's fixed now.

:)

Originally posted by DeathBuzzz
It depends on what guages you are doing... really you should use electrical for all of them and either tie into the PCM or buy a sending unit. This way you dont have to run any sort of vacuum/oil/nitrous/etc from the engine bay into your face...

for both oil and water temp you should be able to tie into the PCMs output to the guage cluster, right?
Someone back me up here, the only real experience I have with guages was on my 99 v6 which had a different setup for the guages ( hehe, no tach output to the guage cluster?!?! what kind of crap is that... )

Really there is no reason for fluid filled guages ( unless of course you like the look and dont mind paying the money ). They are for use in drag cars and race cars that vibrate constantly ( bad idle, dirt track, etc... ) . The liquid stops the needle from jumping around.


~Brian

Mechanical are more accurate but yes, you have all those little tubes running everywhere. Honestly, if your high powered, I think you want the accuracy that comes with a mechanical gauge. Electrical gauges are easier to install but not always as accurate as a gauge actually feeling the impulse of what it is reading. Such as Oil Pressure actually getting oil sent to it as opposed to an ECU telling the gauge what to do. If you can get mechanical, get it. Some gauges you can't.

Originally posted by Eric @ DMS
Run electrical guages. Mechanical gauges are typically installed outside the car (i.e. below the rear vent of a cowl hood outside the windshield). Most mechanical gauges require you to run hoses from the particular location your gauge reads. These gauges are installed outside for safety reasons (i.e. hose blowing etc).

Untrue, the only mechanical gauge that people NEED to put outside of the car is fuel pressure. It actually says on the gauge, for underhood use only. Every other mechanical gauge can be placed where ever you want them. I have boost, and oil pressure inside cockpit. No problems ever. Fuel pressure gauges are just to scary to have inside your car. If a line blows on the boost gauge you have air blowing in. Big deal, if you blow a fuel pressure line then your screwed if it's in your car. Get mechanical if possible.

I disagree toykilla:

Older electrical guages were not as accurate as mechanical, but there are better senders now... There is no reason to have to deal with running an oil line into the cabin for *MOST* needs. Mind you, if you are building a stripped, all-out-race car then sure, no reason not to have a little more accuracy associated with mechanical. However, I inferred from his original post that this was a daily driver. Why even risk it if you drive your car every day.

Boost guages are a different story. Its just as easy ( if not easier ) to run vacuum lines to the cabin as opposed to installing a sending unit. And youre right, its not a big deal to blow a vacuum line, but you argue that point while you have a mech. oil pressure guage there. How would you feel if you blew that line?

Just my $.02...

~Brian

Originally posted by DeathBuzzz
I disagree toykilla:

Older electrical guages were not as accurate as mechanical, but there are better senders now... There is no reason to have to deal with running an oil line into the cabin for *MOST* needs. Mind you, if you are building a stripped, all-out-race car then sure, no reason not to have a little more accuracy associated with mechanical. However, I inferred from his original post that this was a daily driver. Why even risk it if you drive your car every day.

Boost guages are a different story. Its just as easy ( if not easier ) to run vacuum lines to the cabin as opposed to installing a sending unit. And youre right, its not a big deal to blow a vacuum line, but you argue that point while you have a mech. oil pressure guage there. How would you feel if you blew that line?

Just my $.02...

~Brian

First off. How many stories have you heard about ANYONE blowing any kind of oil pressure lines. I highly doubt your gonna blow a tube with 80psi AT MOST. That's when car is just started and oil is higher. 60psi is normal at WOT. The fact is electronics break, go bad, screw up, whatever you want to call it. I've never heard of a mechanical gauge going bad in my life (I'm sure it's happened but I haven't heard of it) but I've heard about bad electronic boost gauges all the time. It's just my perference to have mechanical. In my case I need to know that the gauge isn't lieing 100% of the time. Electronic gauges just aren't as good. For example. An air/fuel ratio gauge. If your o2 sensor goes bad it will be unaccurate. There is just too many things that can happen with electric gauges. If this breaks, that gauge is ****ed. If that breaks, this gauge is ****ed. Mechanical is accurate all the time. If your not getting oil pressure the mechanical gauge will tell ya. If your sending unit breaks your electrical oil pressure gauge will be inaccurate. They do break folks.

Originally posted by toykilla
First off. How many stories have you heard about ANYONE blowing any kind of oil pressure lines. I highly doubt your gonna blow a tube with 80psi AT MOST. That's when car is just started and oil is higher. 60psi is normal at WOT.

It is possible to rupture an oil line at 60-80 PSI. Also, the oil line (after time) has a higher tendency to come off. I have seen them come off at NHRA (and other serious race car) events. If you've never seen a mechanical gauge "break", you lead an isolated life. :D

Originally posted by toykilla
The fact is Mechanical break, go bad, screw up, whatever you want to call it. I've never heard of a Electrical gauge going bad in my life (I'm sure it's happened but I haven't heard of it) ;) but I've heard about bad Mechanical boost gauges all the time. It's just my perference to have Electrical. In my case I need to know that the gauge isn't lieing 100% of the time. Mechanical gauges just aren't as good. ... There is just too many things that can happen with Mechanical gauges. If this breaks, that gauge is ****ed. If that breaks, this gauge is ****ed. Electrical is accurate all the time. If your not getting oil pressure the Electrical gauge will tell ya. If your lines break/get damaged your Mechanical oil pressure gauge will be inaccurate. They do break folks.

Hmm, you can say the same for the opposite. :p

Originally posted by toykilla For example. An air/fuel ratio gauge. If your o2 sensor goes bad it will be unaccurate.

OEM O2 sensor are not accurate enough to tell you your air/fuel ratio on the fly. Wide band O2 are. Those guages are a light show only.

As you said toykilla, for YOU that is your choice. But the guy asking the question, that might not be, hence he is asking the proffesionals that have true experience.

lol, this is truely pathetic. How much you guys would just love to argue. You talk of professionals? Your a professional? I don't think so. Mechanical gauges are more accurate and do last longer. It's not possible to break the tubing for the oil pressure gauge at 60psi. If it was, i'd have broken the one I have in my car multiple times in the last 3 years i've used it. Leaks maybe possible but actually destroying the tubing due to pressure. HIGHLY doubtful. He was asking for opinions, I was merely stating the benefits of mechanical gauges. Leave to a v8 owner to get personal and start throwing mindless, childish insults out. In the bull**** about air/fuel gauges, we've been through that. Just because the Camaro o2 sensor blows doesn't mean mine does. Correct, a wide band will give more accurate readings but my o2 volt gauge isn't far off that. The air/fuel gauge was just an example of how electric gauges aren't always accurate. Keep up with the conversation and stop making it personal.

ToyKilla~~I understand what you r saying about mechanical gauges being more accurate. They work off a pressure not a voltage reading. However, I'm not comfortable with introducing high pressure oil and 212 degree water 8 inches from my face. I think the electrical gauges is what I will go with.
Again you've all been great help and I have learned considerably from you guys.
Thanks Tim:bow:

you agree it could leak? ok would you want oil or coolant leaking in your car? or would you want to not toice it leaking run low on either and have engine problems i don't think i would!

Originally posted by PhantomTA
if that was true you would be out of buisness :)

Yes its true..yes our customers know it..and we're far from being out of business :)

well i have to jump in here on toykilla's side. if you know any history (or up to dateinfo) on mechanical gauges, youll know they are very often more accurate, more reliable, and last longer. granted, the electrical have come a long way, but dont always perform as well as the mech. for boost, i will always recommend mech. fp, assuming its inside, has to be elec. as we all know. many other things i will recommend mech for as well...keep in mind the track record that they have -- you go with what works best. many of my personal friends have boost with lots of gauges and they ALL run mech. autometer mech gauges...noone have had a problem with any of them whatsoever.

Originally posted by Eric @ DMS
Yes its true..yes our customers know it..and we're far from being out of business :)


Eric,

Okay help me be happy by giving me free springs :)

Originally posted by PhantomTA
Eric,

Okay help me be happy by giving me free springs :)

Sure no problem. I think shipping will come out to over $155 ;)

Psst a little secret...we try to help everyone out by not outrageously marking up our products ;)

Of course..if we gave away free stuff to everyone then yes we'll be out of business. You don't want to see that do you?

Originally posted by Eric @ DMS
Sure no problem. I think shipping will come out to over $155 ;)

Psst a little secret...we try to help everyone out by not outrageously marking up our products ;)

Of course..if we gave away free stuff to everyone then yes we'll be out of business. You don't want to see that do you?

LOL..

i was setting you up the entire time for asking for free springs

i didnt think of the shipping costs tho!

haha

Well lets start small then. How about an XL shirt so I can advertise for you??

Originally posted by PhantomTA
LOL..

i was setting you up the entire time for asking for free springs

i didnt think of the shipping costs tho!

haha

Yeah I didn't know how to answer it originally..I thought you got me there..but then the big light bulb when bonkers above my head:eek:

Originally posted by 94B&RZ-28
Well lets start small then. How about an XL shirt so I can advertise for you??

We do not currently have anymore T-shirts or stickers for that matter. Time to put another order in for those.

Originally posted by Eric @ DMS
We do not currently have anymore T-shirts or stickers for that matter. Time to put another order in for those.

Well don't forget about me. Nothing better than free advertising;)

Its not really free when hes giving you a shirt..

if the shirt cost them 10.00 to make.. hed have to make 100 profit to make up for the loss.

Im in the buisness ... i know

Originally posted by PhantomTA
Its not really free when hes giving you a shirt..

if the shirt cost them 10.00 to make.. hed have to make 100 profit to make up for the loss.

Im in the buisness ... i know

True but if someone asks me about the shirt, then spend $5000 with him.....
I know I'm splitting hairs, but hey, if you don't ask you don't know

HOLY CRAP!!! I didn't know you were in Thousand Oaks, I grew up in Chatsworth and will be down there the end of the month. Mabye I'll swing by:cool: :eek:

Originally posted by 94B&RZ-28
ToyKilla~~I understand what you r saying about mechanical gauges being more accurate. They work off a pressure not a voltage reading. However, I'm not comfortable with introducing high pressure oil and 212 degree water 8 inches from my face. I think the electrical gauges is what I will go with.
Again you've all been great help and I have learned considerably from you guys.
Thanks Tim:bow:

Just trying to give you a bit of insight on mech gauges. It seemed everyone was going against them for some reason. I use them everyday, most people I know use them and wouldn't ever put electric gauges in their cars if they don't have to. Some you do. As for the blowing tubes and such, if that occured more often than not, don't you think Autometer, being the big ass company they are would do something to fix the problem? It's not a problem. Why fix what's not broken? Just giving you some advantages to mech gauges. Do what you will, it's personal perference.

Originally posted by My84Z
you agree it could leak? ok would you want oil or coolant leaking in your car? or would you want to not toice it leaking run low on either and have engine problems i don't think i would!

Why would you? From your last arguement with me, most people don't use gauges right? They want the stock apperance, right? I feel you just jump in to down what I'm saying because of the arguement we had earier. Grow up and actually think of what i'm saying and stop being so bitter.

Originally posted by supersp0rt
well i have to jump in here on toykilla's side. if you know any history (or up to dateinfo) on mechanical gauges, youll know they are very often more accurate, more reliable, and last longer. granted, the electrical have come a long way, but dont always perform as well as the mech. for boost, i will always recommend mech. fp, assuming its inside, has to be elec. as we all know. many other things i will recommend mech for as well...keep in mind the track record that they have -- you go with what works best. many of my personal friends have boost with lots of gauges and they ALL run mech. autometer mech gauges...noone have had a problem with any of them whatsoever.

Finally someone who actually looks past the fact that I don't drive a Camaro. Someone who actually read what I was saying. Autometer has only been around for 100 some odd years so I think they know what works. If mechanical gauges were as bad as these people are portraying them to be, they would be made BETTER. They are just making the electrical ones better because everyone has an ECU now. I guess i'm a bit old fashion in this instance, I stick with what works.

Finally someone who actually looks past the fact that I don't drive a Camaro.
:rolleyes:

I agreed with some of your points and just stopped posting because it turned into another stupid little war, but do you actually think that people are that shallow as to disagree with you because you dont drive a camaro?


On the guage issue: I still say electric is the way to go, even though toykilla is right about them not being as accurate... Electrical are usually easier to install ( a mech boost guage is probably the easiest guage of them all to install, though ) and some of us that are a little paranoid about running oil lines through the firewall dont have to deal with it.

For this instance, an electrical oil pressure guage is my opinion on the best way to go.

Im done - no more - i hate these arguments - they are pointless...

~Brian

Originally posted by DeathBuzzz
:rolleyes:

I agreed with some of your points and just stopped posting because it turned into another stupid little war, but do you actually think that people are that shallow as to disagree with you because you dont drive a camaro?


On the guage issue: I still say electric is the way to go, even though toykilla is right about them not being as accurate... Electrical are usually easier to install ( a mech boost guage is probably the easiest guage of them all to install, though ) and some of us that are a little paranoid about running oil lines through the firewall dont have to deal with it.

For this instance, an electrical oil pressure guage is my opinion on the best way to go.

Im done - no more - i hate these arguments - they are pointless...

~Brian

Correct me if i'm wrong but don't Camaro's have stock oil pressure gauges? I highly doubt any Camaro owner will need something as accurate as a Autometer gauge if they aren't doing some serious mods.

You are right, another reason why there is no need to go with a mechanical guage...


~Brian

Originally posted by DeathBuzzz
[B]:rolleyes:

I agreed with some of your points and just stopped posting because it turned into another stupid little war, but do you actually think that people are that shallow as to disagree with you because you dont drive a camaro?
[B]

The debate we had was fine. What you were saying is fine, it was just a debate. The mindless crap like this is what i'm talking about...

quote:
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Originally posted by toykilla
The fact is Mechanical break, go bad, screw up, whatever you want to call it. I've never heard of a Electrical gauge going bad in my life (I'm sure it's happened but I haven't heard of it) but I've heard about bad Mechanical boost gauges all the time. It's just my perference to have Electrical. In my case I need to know that the gauge isn't lieing 100% of the time. Mechanical gauges just aren't as good. ... There is just too many things that can happen with Mechanical gauges. If this breaks, that gauge is ****ed. If that breaks, this gauge is ****ed. Electrical is accurate all the time. If your not getting oil pressure the Electrical gauge will tell ya. If your lines break/get damaged your Mechanical oil pressure gauge will be inaccurate. They do break folks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Hmm, you can say the same for the opposite.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by toykilla For example. An air/fuel ratio gauge. If your o2 sensor goes bad it will be unaccurate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



OEM O2 sensor are not accurate enough to tell you your air/fuel ratio on the fly. Wide band O2 are. Those guages are a light show only.

As you said toykilla, for YOU that is your choice. But the guy asking the question, that might not be, hence he is asking the proffesionals that have true experience.


The personal attacks and insults are just immature and bull****. Do f-body drivers actually treat other f-drivers in this mannor? It's not like I was talking out my ass. I was just making comments and points that lean towards mechanical gauges over electrical. Stuff like the above makes me think it's directed at me personally because I choose to drive an import.

Originally posted by toykilla
Finally someone who actually looks past the fact that I don't drive a Camaro. Someone who actually read what I was saying. Autometer has only been around for 100 some odd years so I think they know what works. If mechanical gauges were as bad as these people are portraying them to be, they would be made BETTER. They are just making the electrical ones better because everyone has an ECU now. I guess i'm a bit old fashion in this instance, I stick with what works.
Actually the last argument was what another person wanted and not asking about gauges it was about air/fuel. this question is about gauges! are you alittle confused as to what post your on? This gauges last air fuel got it now? good!

toykilla: Dont respond to My84Z, it just makes things worse... I think we have told both sides to both electrical and mechanical guages, so we have done what was needed. Lets just stop posting or this could become an all out flame war...


done...

~Brian

Originally posted by My84Z
Actually the last argument was what another person wanted and not asking about gauges it was about air/fuel. this question is about gauges! are you alittle confused as to what post your on? This gauges last air fuel got it now? good!

Just to show everyone who the mature one is. Good job my84z...YOUR CAR ROCKS MAN..

ummm whatever man I have been on this board for quite a while and have never met a stuck up no it all like you! you think one sided one day you'll look at all angles.

Originally posted by toykilla
The debate we had was fine. What you were saying is fine, it was just a debate. The mindless crap like this is what i'm talking about...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by toykilla
The fact is Mechanical break, go bad, screw up, whatever you want to call it. I've never heard of a Electrical gauge going bad in my life (I'm sure it's happened but I haven't heard of it) but I've heard about bad Mechanical boost gauges all the time. It's just my perference to have Electrical. In my case I need to know that the gauge isn't lieing 100% of the time. Mechanical gauges just aren't as good. ... There is just too many things that can happen with Mechanical gauges. If this breaks, that gauge is ****ed. If that breaks, this gauge is ****ed. Electrical is accurate all the time. If your not getting oil pressure the Electrical gauge will tell ya. If your lines break/get damaged your Mechanical oil pressure gauge will be inaccurate. They do break folks.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Hmm, you can say the same for the opposite.


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by toykilla For example. An air/fuel ratio gauge. If your o2 sensor goes bad it will be unaccurate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



OEM O2 sensor are not accurate enough to tell you your air/fuel ratio on the fly. Wide band O2 are. Those guages are a light show only.

As you said toykilla, for YOU that is your choice. But the guy asking the question, that might not be, hence he is asking the proffesionals that have true experience.


The personal attacks and insults are just immature and bull****. Do f-body drivers actually treat other f-drivers in this mannor? It's not like I was talking out my ass. I was just making comments and points that lean towards mechanical gauges over electrical. Stuff like the above makes me think it's directed at me personally because I choose to drive an import.

Beyond this I am no longer responding to your "Help, I'm an import and I am being attacked on a Camaro tech section" mentality. I actually didn't/don't know that you have an import. I thought you had an F-body, until you posted otherwise. If you think I was personally attacking you, you've got serious issues. This is just an internet message forum to exchange ideas, not real life. :rolleyes: Some people can actually take joke, I guess you are not one of them. We gotta walk on egg shels with you, so you don't get offended. :rolleyes: Having said that, you quoted me correct, correct becuase you cannot show me where I personally attacked you? I did not, I said as you quoted. I was/am attacking your false comments and assumptions that mech. guages "never" break and elec. will "always" break. Hence why I posted that hypothetical version of you "story" (notice the winky, it's means it's not an attack .... IT'S A JOKE ). We all agree that mech. are more accurate then Elec., that is not the arguement. But you can't seem to get pasted that. We are saying elec. is sometimes better because the reduced risk over mech.'s. I could turn this around on you and say that you are being a stereotypical (type casting us F-body owners based on one person) import owner, but I won't because that is not the point to this guy's thread. Don't take things personal, unless someone specifically quotes you and/or says "toykilla, you're a ...". In closing, keep it to the topic at hand and don't argue with people, just give your opinions without bearing false testimonials. :)

How old are you people?

Do i need to hold everyones hand while you post?