Dyno results are in for my car. D1SC owners, MUST READ!!!

For those with the D1SC set up, read ahead to see how you may be missing out on some BIG HP.

Finally got my car to the tuner yesterday. After a pull or two we noticed we were way far down on the power level we expected to be at, (only 480 at the wheels). After adjusting the fuel pressure regulater, and accidentitly breaking the fuel rails, we were fortunate to have a spare fuel rail provided by the tuner, and installed the new ones and pressed on. After a few more pulls we noticed fuel pressure dropped, so we stopped before damage was done, and found that my second fuel pump had come off! After re-attaching it, and still making weak power, we decided to try it without the air inlet tube for the D1SC. I instantly picked up 110 RWHP! For those of you who have the inlet on your car, or for future D1SC owners, beware that this inlet tube to the blower is very restrictive to power on a modded engine. Fastbird I am sure will chime in any second with the dyno sheet and a few words as well. I am currently having a new tube fabricated with the filter that won't be nearly as restricted, and should make similar RWHP. We got to the tuner shop at 9:30 AM, and left the shop at 11:30 PM! This was one long day, but the tune is sound, and we finally found where the power was going!

Long story short my car made 590 RWHP and 545 RWT at 15.4 pounds of boost (up from 11 with the inlet tube on). This was done on a Mustang dyno, with a 92 F temperature, and 65 percent humidity, all on pump gas, no methanol injection, and the stock PCM.

Those mustang dyno's are usually a little on the low side but good numbers. Some pics and dyno sheet would be nice. cya

Mustang dynos are generally accepted as more accurate than DynoJets. It would be more accurate to say that DynoJets are a little on the high side.

Make sure we get pics of that new inlet tube that they are fabricating. So far there's only 2 options for a new inlet. Mufflex still has a jig and will make one for about $2xx but it resuses a part of the orange flex hose. The new ATI molded plastic intake is also available for $2XX. We're still waiting for dyno results on that one.

-B

lol jake, your probably right there but dynojet is much more common and to many is the standard.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i177/Fastbird93/BenDyno.jpg

What style inlet tube are you referring to? Also, what size pulley you runnin'? Congrats on the numbers!.

Ok, here's my part of things:

Jeff did an outstanding job tuning the car.

We ran into a snag with the fuel rails while diagnosing a sudden lean situation. Cracked the rail at the schraeder valve while trying to take the distribution block off to replace fuel pressure gauge sender. Fortunately, Jeff had an extra set of rails.

For some reason, the in-tank rubber line from the distribution block to the secondary pump came off the pump. Thanks to already having a hatch cut in the back of the car, the fix only took about 20 minutes and pressure was back up to normal.

Now, as for the dyno stuff.....

First pull up to 5200 RPM the car was running fat in the middle (right where the second pump kicked on), and baselined 480 HP and 500 TQ, with the 480 peaking at 5200 rpm. On subsequent pulls, higher and higher, power was just flatlined from 5200 RPM up. Peak power tuned as shown on the dyno graph by the blue line was right about 500 HP and 485 TQ. Something not right,

So we started looking for a restriction, and couldn't find a reason WHY the power would just flatline like that, so we though, "lets take that inlet off" and see what happens. The VERY next pull, the car picked up boost across the board, from 10 PSI up to 15 PSI at peak, and power and torque were up everywhere. With the blower sans intake, peak power was 590 @ 6300 RPM and torque was 545 @ 5000-5100 RPM. That's more like it.

But, can't exactly drive three hours home with no intake, so back on it went, and you see the wavering turd of a graph that followed (with the 590 tune in the car). Peak power of 482 @ 5200 RPM, 500 TQ @ 4400 RPM. That inlet is robbing the car of 110 HP and 45 lb/ft of torque. You can see what it did to the A/F Ratio also, it's just turd rich now. Hopefully the engine shop will be able to fab up something on the high side of a compromise there.

We couldn't pull past 6375 RPM for some reason, the car started breaking up on the top end. At 12 frames per second on TTS Datamaster, we recorded 16 frames of 6375 RPM. Talking with Jeff and the motor shop, we think the spark was being blown out on the top end. The car was set up originally for 12# of boost, and as such the plugs were gapped @ 35, so he's having a new set of plugs gapped at 27-28 put in, which should hopefully solve that problem.

My take: That "New" ATI inlet is garbage. It may be fine and dandy for a barely modified car, but Call 911's setup PROVES that it's not going to support anything over 10 PSI and be nothing but a restrictive piece of junk on a modified motor. I was simply shocked at what happened with it's removal. other than that, the car runs great, it's a helluva motor in that thing.

As for the Mustang vs. Dynojet thing, I'll 100% agree that when properly calibrated, Mustang dyno's reveal definitive real world numbers. But, the dynojet is still (for now) the industry standard. I have no doubts that on a dynojet this thing would have easily pulled 600 HP and close to if not more than 600 TQ (where you see the biggest disparity between numbers of the two dyno's).

P.S. You guys don't want to know how much timing this thing wanted. It wanted a freaking ton. :D

As for the fuel line slipping off the 2nd fuel pump. I'm assuming you're running dual walbro intank pumps....the last time I used the usual worm drive clamp on the outlet nipple it slipped off 3 times and left me stranded!!! Check the fuel pump outlet to see if you didn't lose the retaining ring. Its silver in color.

If the new ATI inlet is crap..I have have to go with a custom inlet or go with the Mufflex inlet.


-B

call911 give us a detailed Mod list, so we can compare setups

call911 give us a detailed Mod list, so we can compare setups

He's on limited internet access, so I'll fill ya in for him on what I can remember off teh top of my head:

383 LT1 (Lunati Sledgehammer Crank, Oliver Billett rods, custom Diamond pistons)
TPIS CNC LT1 AFR 180 heads (I believe they're 180's based on runner volume and flow numbers)
Custom Camshaft 244/254 @ .050, .578/.578 lift, 114* LSA
Hand ported intake manifold
Hooker Long Tubes
Hooker Y-Pipe
Borla Cat-Back
Lingenfelter 58mm TB (the gigantic brick one)
60# Injectors
M6 w/Moser 12 bolt and 3.73's
EPP Custom FMIC setup

i have the new inlet intake as well on my car and only picked up 2 psi, and 40 rwhp witout it. i mean it is a lot but still, no where near 110 rwhp.
for comparison sake my car made 640/595 with 14psi (no intake) and 600 even with the intake(12psi). The motor is a 383 with stock ported heads and cc305, 93 pump gas etc.
Marcin

i def. believe it could free up around 100 hp by taking filter and all off.
the orange hose and twin intercoolers are both restrictions. i bypassed the intercoolers and took the flex hose off and went from 14lbs to burrying the 20# gauge with an 8rib belt.

cant we just put a coupler & low profile filter on the inlet of the blower??

Run this one and you'll have that problem solved. :D http://www.fbodyeurope.org/albums/SRZs-Album/MVC_001S_002.jpg

I still have to figure out how to run that huge filter but I'll get it on there one way or another. Or slap a K&N right off the inlet hat but that kinda scares me thinking the SC will suck it in.

http://www.fbodyeurope.org/albums/SRZs-Album/MVC_003S_001.jpg

Man I just realized you are running a pretty healthy cam. No emissions I assume?

Nope no emissions. (I love Indiana :D ). That picture of your set up looks ideal. The initial elbow in that may be to big for mine as the distance between the blower and the header is about 6 inches. BTW, that is one freakin huge air filter!

Also, the car has a 12# pulley on it. While the inlet was on, we only saw 11#'s of boost, once it was removed, it jumped to 15#s!

Damn dude... how do you plan on running headers with that big intake?

-B

You said you have the 12lb pulley is that a 3.7 Blower pulley. What is the Pulley setup on your car and high high do you rev it. I am trying to figure in your Blower RPM from the D1SC.
ON a Dynojet you would have made 640RWHP or around that with around 600RWTQ


ZBLKHELLRZR thats the same setup I will be running a 90degree bend with a Filter. Thats a 4inch setup coming off the Blower inlet Right???

Run this one and you'll have that problem solved. :D http://www.fbodyeurope.org/albums/SRZs-Album/MVC_001S_002.jpg

I still have to figure out how to run that huge filter but I'll get it on there one way or another. Or slap a K&N right off the inlet hat but that kinda scares me thinking the SC will suck it in.

http://www.fbodyeurope.org/albums/SRZs-Album/MVC_003S_001.jpg

Man I just realized you are running a pretty healthy cam. No emissions I assume?

I take it you have not tried to install that in an F-body? Good luck getting it to fit with headers and the front suspension there!!


To everyone else that says the new ATI inlet is crap.... I've said it many times, and I'll say it again...


IT'S NOT DESIGNED FOR A HEAVILY MODIFIED CAR!! JUST LIKE ALL OTHER 'STREET' KITS ATI OFFERS, THEY ARE DESIGNED TO WORK WITH A FAIRLY STOCK CAR, WITH THIER STANDARD KIT!!

As with any race car or highly modified car, expect to have to do some sort of modifying to produce optimum results, this goes with almost any aftermarket part, not just supercharger systems!!

I take it you have not tried to install that in an F-body? Good luck getting it to fit with headers and the front suspension there!!


As with any race car or highly modified car, expect to have to do some sort of modifying to produce optimum results, this goes with almost any aftermarket part, not just supercharger systems!!


Actually I've had the engine on a hoist w/ the header on and it clears. FLP's aren't a issue w/ the 4" elbow. The hard part is mocking the other portion of the bend to use w/ the filter so we'll see how it goes. :D

Actually I've had the engine on a hoist w/ the header on and it clears. FLP's aren't a issue w/ the 4" elbow. The hard part is mocking the other portion of the bend to use w/ the filter so we'll see how it goes. :D

As far back as that bend goes I think you're going to run into clearance issues with the Steering Linkage and the lower A-Arm. This is fresh in my mind considering we were trying to find a quick fix for Call 911's car on Sunday. We were trying to get a conical K&N Filter in there and even one that was about 8" long wouldn't fit without hitting the linkage. If your sets does work, more power to you, I'll be dang impressed and trying to wrangle info about where to get one for myself!! There's just not a lot of room with everything else installed in the car.

Bob @ EPP sells this w/ no issues BUT that's on LS1's. Even w/ the steering linkage I think it'll fit but just not at the angle w/ the pic. I'll let you guys know soon enough how it turns out.

Congratulations on finally getting your car all put together and posting some great numbers.

The issue with the "new ATi" inlet tube is disturbing. When I switched from dryer hose the new inlet I'm guessing I picked up about 40 HP. I'm running a 9" K&N conical filter that is tucked into the wheel well and it looks pretty free flowing. It looks like with a better designed inlet I could pick up some more HP.

What did your timing tables look like in the 95 and 100 KPA areas? What A/F ratio did you use at WOT?:)

The pulley was designed for the mods I ran in my motor to pull 12#'s of boost (not sure of the exact size of the pulley). With no inlet tube it did a tad over 15#'s. The cam I have seemed to really like timing. It was tuned with 29 degrees, and probably could have taken more, but the Jeff (my tuner) did not want to add anymore since 29 degrees of timing was the most he has ever put into a blown car. I believe at WOT the A/F saw a consistant 11.5.

The car was ran to a little over 6300 RPM and then it seemed to cap out. My tuner and my engine builder seem to think it may be blowing out the spark then. It did keep pulling higher and higher until it cut out though, i.e. it seemed like if the RPM's could have kept going, the power would have been more as well.

I would also like to give thanks to Ponyhntr for all his help, and mention that he did tell me previously that the inlet tube was designed for a lightly modified car. And he would know since he works for ATI.

The pulley was designed for the mods I ran in my motor to pull 12#'s of boost (not sure of the exact size of the pulley). With no inlet tube it did a tad over 15#'s. The cam I have seemed to really like timing. It was tuned with 29 degrees, and probably could have taken more, but the Jeff (my tuner) did not want to add anymore since 29 degrees of timing was the most he has ever put into a blown car. I believe at WOT the A/F saw a consistant 11.5.

The car was ran to a little over 6300 RPM and then it seemed to cap out. My tuner and my engine builder seem to think it may be blowing out the spark then. It did keep pulling higher and higher until it cut out though, i.e. it seemed like if the RPM's could have kept going, the power would have been more as well.

I would also like to give thanks to Ponyhntr for all his help, and mention that he did tell me previously that the inlet tube was designed for a lightly modified car. And he would know since he works for ATI.

Do you still have a MAF or did you go speed density? Did you go open or closed loop? I'm really impressed that you made such big numbers on the stock computer.

Yes, I still have a descreened stock MAF, and the car is meant to run closed loop once it warms up just like stock.

I would like to add that my tuner said I am pretty much maxed out, seeing as how he maxed out the fuels, and the MAF was also maxed out. There would obviously be more room if I went with a FAST system, or ran Methanol Injection, or ran race gas, but I wanted something I could just run off the factory computer without having to worry about Methanol injection, and still be able to just fill it up at a regular gas station with premium.

Nice numbers 911, your combo is similar to mine same boost ecm I 'm just running a smaller cam. I had the same problem on top till I ran a non resistor plug (r5724-9) then it would pull to 6500 np.

John

Nice numbers 911, your combo is similar to mine same boost ecm I 'm just running a smaller cam. I had the same problem on top till I ran a non resistor plug (r5724-9) then it would pull to 6500 np.

John

INteresting. That might be something to look into.

I agree.