For those interested in Toyota recalls and the media's take on them
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For those interested in Toyota recalls and the media's take on them
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2006/07...partner=alerts
Teflon Toyota
Joann Muller and Jonathan Fahey 07.03.06
Consumers don't seem bothered by a rash of recalls.
Here's a quiz: a carmaker last month recalled 1 million vehicles worldwide. In 2005 it recalled 2.2 million vehicles in the U.S., 10% of its total number of cars on the road here and twice the number it recalled the year before. Who is this bumbling manufacturer? No, not General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ), but Toyota (nyse: TM - news - people ), whose vehicles jump off the lot because consumers swear by their quality. Just a few weeks ago Toyota again dominated consumer polls in the annual J.D. Power & Associates initial quality study.
Why this disconnect? The answer says something about the nature of recalls and how Toyota handles them. For one thing, the spike in recalls stems from Toyota's own efficiency. Rather than reengineering parts, it shares components among many models. So when something goes wrong, as it did recently with the steering shaft on the Prius and ten other (non-U.S.) models, the recall number is high.
Toyota, moreover, has perfected the art of detecting and fixing quality problems early, often before customers even notice them. "What we tend to see is that if a customer receives a recall notice before their car exhibits any symptoms, they don't see it as a problem," says Chance Parker of J.D. Power. It counts as a recall, for sure, but the Power surveys are gauging consumers' level of satisfaction. And Toyota knows how to keep customers satisfied. It gives its dealers plenty of leeway to fix customer complaints even postwarranty--by some accounts as much as $3,000 per vehicle.
Despite the headlines, it's not clear that Toyota's recall numbers are any worse than those of the other carmakers. The amount it spends making good on warranties is 1.2% of revenues versus 2.4% for GM and 2.3% for Ford (nyse: F - news - people ). Last year when Toyota had 12 recalls, covering 2.2 million vehicles in the U.S., GM had 30, covering 5.1 million, and Ford had 17, covering 6 million ( see story, p. 102).
No question that Toyota's remarkable growth has hit some bumps. Consumer Reports dropped the reliability rating on its newly redesigned Avalon from "much better than average" to "average." Even Toyota management wonders whether it has the bench to guide its growth. But for now quality doesn't seem to be an issue.
--------
Toyota is second among the big companies in recalls, by this benchmark.
COMPANY..........2005 RECALLS AS A % OF VEHICLES IN OPERATION
FORD.................11.7%
TOYOTA.............10.1%
GM......................6.8%
HONDA.................4.0%
CHRYSLER.............2.5%
Joann Muller and Jonathan Fahey 07.03.06
Consumers don't seem bothered by a rash of recalls.
Here's a quiz: a carmaker last month recalled 1 million vehicles worldwide. In 2005 it recalled 2.2 million vehicles in the U.S., 10% of its total number of cars on the road here and twice the number it recalled the year before. Who is this bumbling manufacturer? No, not General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ), but Toyota (nyse: TM - news - people ), whose vehicles jump off the lot because consumers swear by their quality. Just a few weeks ago Toyota again dominated consumer polls in the annual J.D. Power & Associates initial quality study.
Why this disconnect? The answer says something about the nature of recalls and how Toyota handles them. For one thing, the spike in recalls stems from Toyota's own efficiency. Rather than reengineering parts, it shares components among many models. So when something goes wrong, as it did recently with the steering shaft on the Prius and ten other (non-U.S.) models, the recall number is high.
Toyota, moreover, has perfected the art of detecting and fixing quality problems early, often before customers even notice them. "What we tend to see is that if a customer receives a recall notice before their car exhibits any symptoms, they don't see it as a problem," says Chance Parker of J.D. Power. It counts as a recall, for sure, but the Power surveys are gauging consumers' level of satisfaction. And Toyota knows how to keep customers satisfied. It gives its dealers plenty of leeway to fix customer complaints even postwarranty--by some accounts as much as $3,000 per vehicle.
Despite the headlines, it's not clear that Toyota's recall numbers are any worse than those of the other carmakers. The amount it spends making good on warranties is 1.2% of revenues versus 2.4% for GM and 2.3% for Ford (nyse: F - news - people ). Last year when Toyota had 12 recalls, covering 2.2 million vehicles in the U.S., GM had 30, covering 5.1 million, and Ford had 17, covering 6 million ( see story, p. 102).
No question that Toyota's remarkable growth has hit some bumps. Consumer Reports dropped the reliability rating on its newly redesigned Avalon from "much better than average" to "average." Even Toyota management wonders whether it has the bench to guide its growth. But for now quality doesn't seem to be an issue.
--------
Toyota is second among the big companies in recalls, by this benchmark.
COMPANY..........2005 RECALLS AS A % OF VEHICLES IN OPERATION
FORD.................11.7%
TOYOTA.............10.1%
GM......................6.8%
HONDA.................4.0%
CHRYSLER.............2.5%
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Re: For those interested in Toyota recalls and the media's take on them
Interesting article. But how does Toyota detect steering shaft defects before other makers if the customer doesn't detect them first (assuming the defect is not at the production line)? Do Toyota continue to subject the existing vehicles to durability/component testing?
Or am I interpreting things incorrectly?
Or am I interpreting things incorrectly?
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Re: For those interested in Toyota recalls and the media's take on them
Originally Posted by SSbaby
Interesting article. But how does Toyota detect steering shaft defects before other makers if the customer doesn't detect them first (assuming the defect is not at the production line)? Do Toyota continue to subject the existing vehicles to durability/component testing?
Or am I interpreting things incorrectly?
Or am I interpreting things incorrectly?
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From: Roseville, MI, USA
Re: For those interested in Toyota recalls and the media's take on them
So, now. Toyota is claming they, themselves find out these issues before their owners? Then why is it in every NHTSB recall that goes out, it discloses how many complaints they have gotten about the issue that is being recalled?
Boy oh boy.
Boy oh boy.
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Re: For those interested in Toyota recalls and the media's take on them
So the reason for defects is not because a improperly engineered part, but its because Toyota is "Too efficient"?
How about just saying the truth. Toyota wanted to be cheap and share parts across the board, as most car companies try to do, and did not properly research some parts and due to this, problems arise.
However because its Toyota, its because they are too efficient. But if GM, Ford, or DCX do the same thing, the problem is because the domestics have poor quality control, or something else is wrong.
Basically saying Toyota wanted to cut costs and wanted to be cheap about some parts, or saying they are "too efficient" are the same thing. One is just a better way of trying to perfume a stinky turd. :P
How about just saying the truth. Toyota wanted to be cheap and share parts across the board, as most car companies try to do, and did not properly research some parts and due to this, problems arise.
However because its Toyota, its because they are too efficient. But if GM, Ford, or DCX do the same thing, the problem is because the domestics have poor quality control, or something else is wrong.
Basically saying Toyota wanted to cut costs and wanted to be cheap about some parts, or saying they are "too efficient" are the same thing. One is just a better way of trying to perfume a stinky turd. :P
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Re: For those interested in Toyota recalls and the media's take on them
People aren't bothered by Toyota recalls because they are biased towards Japanese cars being super reliable, how hard is that to say? It's part of the "experience" for Toyota.
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Re: For those interested in Toyota recalls and the media's take on them
That article neglects to quantify the significance of recalls involved.
Significance is more than just 'how many cars are affected'?
It's also; how likely is this recall to affect the cars being recalled? 1 in a thousand? Every last one of them? or somewhere inbetween.
If a car is affected, how disaterous is the result going to be? A family of dead people? A burnt down house? Or a passenger that has to sit in a different seat because his seat belt won't buckle?
How many cars were affected and experienced this problem before the recall was issued?
Was this recall done voluntarily or was it required?
I'm not saying that the answers to those questions would make Toyota any better looking in the standings for 2005, but they most definitely mean FAR more to me than the actual percentage of vehicles built in the US that were recalled.
Significance is more than just 'how many cars are affected'?
It's also; how likely is this recall to affect the cars being recalled? 1 in a thousand? Every last one of them? or somewhere inbetween.
If a car is affected, how disaterous is the result going to be? A family of dead people? A burnt down house? Or a passenger that has to sit in a different seat because his seat belt won't buckle?
How many cars were affected and experienced this problem before the recall was issued?
Was this recall done voluntarily or was it required?
I'm not saying that the answers to those questions would make Toyota any better looking in the standings for 2005, but they most definitely mean FAR more to me than the actual percentage of vehicles built in the US that were recalled.
Last edited by Threxx; Jun 18, 2006 at 12:17 PM.
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Re: For those interested in Toyota recalls and the media's take on them
Originally Posted by SSbaby
Interesting article. But how does Toyota detect steering shaft defects before other makers if the customer doesn't detect them first (assuming the defect is not at the production line)? Do Toyota continue to subject the existing vehicles to durability/component testing?
Or am I interpreting things incorrectly?
Or am I interpreting things incorrectly?
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 164
Re: For those interested in Toyota recalls and the media's take on them
Originally Posted by toegead93
One example might be when a lot of cutomers go in to the Toyota shop with noise and vibration in the steering the mechs look at it, fix it and make record of the problem;Then the engineers try to solve the problem, and then fix it by making the recall. The GM way is to deny the problem exists all the way down the food chain, "uh that is normal whine, your rearend is fine"(CTS-V rearend issue). My point is they probably detect them as soon as customers find these problems, just as any other manufacturer. However Toyota seems to take quick and correct action to solve the problem where other manufacturers may duck and hide. Toyota appears to be proactive in solving problems, and people remember that.
I'm still a Camaro enthusiast, but will struggle to buy GM ever again.
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Re: For those interested in Toyota recalls and the media's take on them
FWIW, I think its a double standard from some quarters of the media... putting a positive spin on recalls announced by Toyota... while painting a picture of doom and gloom for the 'BIG3'.
A recall is a recall, no matter what. People have to arrange time to get their cars to the dealership... some have to drive a long way - it's an inconvenience but the main reason for the recall is that it could potentially cause injury or death.
A recall is a recall, no matter what. People have to arrange time to get their cars to the dealership... some have to drive a long way - it's an inconvenience but the main reason for the recall is that it could potentially cause injury or death.
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,123
From: Melbourne, Australia
Re: For those interested in Toyota recalls and the media's take on them
Originally Posted by toegead93
One example might be when a lot of cutomers go in to the Toyota shop with noise and vibration in the steering the mechs look at it, fix it and make record of the problem;Then the engineers try to solve the problem, and then fix it by making the recall. The GM way is to deny the problem exists all the way down the food chain, "uh that is normal whine, your rearend is fine"(CTS-V rearend issue). My point is they probably detect them as soon as customers find these problems, just as any other manufacturer. However Toyota seems to take quick and correct action to solve the problem where other manufacturers may duck and hide. Toyota appears to be proactive in solving problems, and people remember that.
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Re: For those interested in Toyota recalls and the media's take on them
Or how bout the magazine test of a Honda RL. The mag performed all their normal tests for a 1/2 ton truck. The steering feel odd, they brought it into the dealer, the struts were and or strut mounts were elvis'ed. The dealer stated it was from abuse, and refused to fix under warranty. If memory is correct, I believe it wasn't before they dropped the words to corporate "Hey we're a magazine doing a review on your truck. Your RL was tested with the same criteria and course as any competing model 1/2 ton truck." The issue was then promptly addressed and fixed under warranty.
Wonder if the outcome would have been the same if it was some Joe Schmoe bringing in his truck for the same condition.....
Wonder if the outcome would have been the same if it was some Joe Schmoe bringing in his truck for the same condition.....
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Re: For those interested in Toyota recalls and the media's take on them
Originally Posted by Derek M
Or how bout the magazine test of a Honda RL. The mag performed all their normal tests for a 1/2 ton truck. The steering feel odd, they brought it into the dealer, the struts were and or strut mounts were elvis'ed. The dealer stated it was from abuse, and refused to fix under warranty. If memory is correct, I believe it wasn't before they dropped the words to corporate "Hey we're a magazine doing a review on your truck. Your RL was tested with the same criteria and course as any competing model 1/2 ton truck." The issue was then promptly addressed and fixed under warranty.
Wonder if the outcome would have been the same if it was some Joe Schmoe bringing in his truck for the same condition.....
Wonder if the outcome would have been the same if it was some Joe Schmoe bringing in his truck for the same condition.....
One of the things I really like about Honda's warranty; I get a loaner car for free (including gas) while it's in for repairs.
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