4th Gen Rear Lower Control Arms and Panhard Rod?

Hey folks, I'm putting Corvette ZR1 17x9.5 front and 17x11 rear wheels on my '97 Camaro SS. The people at AFS told me that I would need to upgrade to aftermarket panhard rod and lower control arms all with poly bushings so that the rear wheels won't rub during hard cornering.

Who makes the best, strongest components with the poly already installed? I'm headed to the 'for sale' forum, but I wanted to get opinions on the best stuff first. I once saw a panhard rod that was about an inch in diameter! While that may be overkill, I'd probably go with it considering the abusive driving I do.

Thanks,
Paul

Sorry I haven't been here for a while and I now see I posted in the wrong forum, since this is probably more suited for the suspension forum. Maybe a kind moderator could move it for me?

Thanks,
Paul

I have had great success with Spohn and Hotchkis...Spohn is a little less $$$...

--Alan

I'll move it to "Suspension......" forum for you.

There is an FAQ in the "Wheels and Tires" forum outlining what many of us have had to do to fit those wheels on a 4th Gen. I suspect most people who reach that point have already upgraded many suspension components. The ES poly bushings are more than firm enough, but they can cause handling problems due to suspension bind when encountering very hard cornering loads.

It makes sense that the panhard rod would need upgrading to prevent the tires from rubbing, and an adjustable one would allow you to fine tune it. The poly bushings aren't as bid an issue with bind on the panhard rod. As far as LCA's, I guess they are suggesting that you have to reduce the compliance that the soft stock rubber bushings, with "hollows" top and bottom provide. Poly will take out the slop, but can cause bind as mentioned above. The solution is to use a "rod end" on the axle end of th LCA and a poly end on the chassis end of the LCA.

Poke around in the "Suspension......" forum, and check the FAQ on "Wheels and Tires".

Quote: "The solution is to use a "rod end" on the axle end of th LCA and a poly end on the chassis end of the LCA."

According to Global West, you mount the poly end on the axle and the rod end on the chassis.

Spohn makes a quality product. People say good things about UMI too, I haven't seen their stuff in person. If you go with rod end parts, be sure to buy from vendors using top quality rod ends.
As stated above, on all poly/rod end parts, the poly end goes on the chassis.
More important, though is that you will in all likelyhood need to create additional clearance for those 11 inch rears in the wheelwells. Do some searching on all of the various F Body boards.

I have had great success with Spohn and Hotchkis...Spohn is a little less $$$...

--Alan

Holy Wow! The Spohn is 1/2 the price of the Hotchkiss!!! I need more help though... I went to Spohn's web site, and I couldn't find LCA's with even one spherical end... (Nor did Hotchkiss have them...)

Also, if you do a search on Spohn's site for 'panhard' you get 8 results, and some are identical??? Do I need the panhard rod with both ends spherical, or just one end spherical and the other end poly???

This car is not a daily driver, it's purely for fun, and I have an SLP Loudmouth in it as well as a healthy stereo. I rarely drive it with the T-Tops IN... In other words, I don't care if these components add some road noise by transferring movement and vibration from the suspension to the body...

Does anyone know any other company that might have the LCA's with a spherical end and a poly end???

Cheers,
Paul

Quote: "As stated above, on all poly/rod end parts, the poly end goes on the chassis."

So the Spohn website agrees with the above statement, the Global West website states the opposite...which is correct or does it make a difference?

The poly is obviously used to isolate noise/vibration and the rod end will eliminate binding.

Quote: "As stated above, on all poly/rod end parts, the poly end goes on the chassis."

So the Spohn website agrees with the above statement, the Global West website states the opposite...which is correct or does it make a difference?

The poly is obviously used to isolate noise/vibration and the rod end will eliminate binding.

Just my opinion, I can't find a definitive source either, but it seems that you would get less noise translation into the body if you put the bushing end on the car and the spherical end on the suspension... Theoretically, both ends move the same amount, only in opposite directions, when under load, right? It's just that the spherical joint allows the movement without binding, but it still moves the same amount as the bushing end? Am I smokin' something here???

Does anyone know any other company that might have the LCA's with a spherical end and a poly end???

Cheers,
Paul

spherical and poly LCA
http://www.spohn.net/product.cfm?productid=1294

spherical and poly Panhard
http://www.spohn.net/product.cfm?productid=1298



all LCA
http://www.spohn.net/category.cfm?categoryid=1041

all Panhard
http://www.spohn.net/category.cfm?categoryid=1045

Quote: "As stated above, on all poly/rod end parts, the poly end goes on the chassis."

So the Spohn website agrees with the above statement, the Global West website states the opposite...which is correct or does it make a difference?

The poly is obviously used to isolate noise/vibration and the rod end will eliminate binding.

I know lots of people have great results from using the poly on chasis side.
Not to sure if many try the other way even?

I'm running the Global West rod end/poly combo and have them mounted per their instructions (poly on rear axle). No complaints at all regarding road noise or handling.

If its not a daily driver just go with Spohn rod end/rod end stuff. I use their rod ended LCAs and they work fantastic, but are a bit noisey. I don't care because I don't drive it everyday and the suspension works fantastic. I have a Hotchkis panhard bar Poly/poly that was on the car when I bought it and I'm going to switch to the spohn rod end/rod end one as well. Just give them a shout...Gordon and Steve (Spohn, father and son company) are good to talk to...

--Alan

If its not a daily driver just go with Spohn rod end/rod end stuff. I use their rod ended LCAs and they work fantastic, but are a bit noisey. I don't care because I don't drive it everyday and the suspension works fantastic. I have a Hotchkis panhard bar Poly/poly that was on the car when I bought it and I'm going to switch to the spohn rod end/rod end one as well. Just give them a shout...Gordon and Steve (Spohn, father and son company) are good to talk to...

--Alan

Thanks man, that's exactly what I needed!!! One more question though... for some reason I can't get the link to work that shows you a big picture of the LCA's, and if I remember correctly the rear sway bar bolts to the LCA's, right? In the small picture of the tubular rod-end/rod-end LCAs, I don't see any holes for the sway bar mounting bolts. Do they have the holes, or did you have to improvise something with the tubular LCAs?

In any case, thanks for the help... I'm going with the rod-end/rod-end LCA's as well as panhard rod.

Thanks man, that's exactly what I needed!!! One more question though... for some reason I can't get the link to work that shows you a big picture of the LCA's, and if I remember correctly the rear sway bar bolts to the LCA's, right? In the small picture of the tubular rod-end/rod-end LCAs, I don't see any holes for the sway bar mounting bolts. Do they have the holes, or did you have to improvise something with the tubular LCAs?

In any case, thanks for the help... I'm going with the rod-end/rod-end LCA's as well as panhard rod.

The Sway bar does not mount or come into contact with the LCA, so no worries there :)


While your odering thing you may want to consider LCA relocation brakets, I know with the SS SLP suspension its right in the middle of needing them and not, but wouldnt hurt.

I like the rod/rod designs myself. Sure they're a bit noisier but It's not bad enough to be annoying for me (and while the car isn't a daily driver, I've been driving it a lot lately). I've got the front all rod end, back poly right now... back is going to rod end next year.

He's thinking of the earlier GM cars.... the LCA's had the mounts for the sway bar. My 1966 GTO was set up that way..... :)

But a 4th gen has separate mounts for the sway bar.

Rod ends, and nothing else......

http://www.injuneer.com/images/photos/Suspension/DCP04293a.jpg

The Sway bar does not mount or come into contact with the LCA, so no worries there :)


While your odering thing you may want to consider LCA relocation brakets, I know with the SS SLP suspension its right in the middle of needing them and not, but wouldnt hurt.

Yeah, I went out and looked at the SS and it's got different mounts than my Malibu... My '83 Malibu still has the sway bar mounted on the LCA's... Anyway...

I saw the LCA relocation brackets, but I'm not sure I follow what they do... Do they just give the LCA more leverage against the twist of the axle? What is different between the SS and Z28 suspensions that makes a difference? I am pretty sure my '97 SS sits higher than my '95 Z28 did, just a little...

Relocation brackets change the angle of the LCAs between the chassis and the axle. They lower the axle end of the LCA which has the effect of pushing the axle downward under acceleration to increase traction. On a lowered car the chassis mount gets lowered which changes the angle of the LCA and the relocation brackets compensate for that change.

Would relocation brackets help on a car that isn't lowered any? To get a little more bite, that is.

Some have had great results with them. I saw none with my non-lowered set up when I had them on my 10 bolt. I currently do not use them on my Strange 12 bolt and I hook very well...

--Alan

Some have had great results with them. I saw none with my non-lowered set up when I had them on my 10 bolt. I currently do not use them on my Strange 12 bolt and I hook very well...

--Alan

So when you use the brackets with adjustable LCAs, do you leave the LCAs the stock length, or do you extend them to meet the new bracket location?

Mine are stock length (non adjustable), the fit is fine.