Why can't the domestics make a decent small car and stick with it??

I'd like to point out something I was mentioning to my staff yesterday during the slowest friggen sales day I've ever seen (rainy, upper 40s, not ONE CUSTOMER :mad: ).

When the Neon came out in the summer of 1994, it was a smash hit. Say what you will about a '95 Neon NOW, but THEN it was the small car to have. People loved it, the auto rags praised it, and everything was good. It was a cheap car that ran 0-60 in 7.9 seconds in base form and stood out from the crowd. Not bad. Now, the '05 Neon, 10 years later (of which I still have three of the little buggers on my lot) makes the same HP, looks nearly the same inside and out, is probably slower because its heavier, and by default is the laughing stock of inexpensive cars because while everyone else advanced in 10 years, it did not. So now, while DCX would prefer you not remember the Neon, it brings out the quasi-breadbox Caliber...which is slower than a '95 Neon, gets worse MPG, and has an interior that appears to be made of similar materials. We sure as hell advanced there...however, I may just not get it because the average turn of a Caliber right now is 10 days, and dealers everywhere can't get enough of them...

Now for Ford. The Escort was never anything, except maybe in GT form. The Focus comes out to rave reviews in '00, and had had virtually no change since. The re-design made it more bland, and more stale than the original. That is progress?

As for GM, the original Cavalier was a joke but sold phenomenally well in a time with little competition. The '95 re-design used the same hoary old 2.2 until '02 as it did in '82...and this was NOT a pushrod design of excellence, mind you :D Reliable, yes...even stylish...but far from a great car. For the Cobalt debut they had to change the name to distance it from the 20 year old Cavalier, and spent millions to re-do the image. So far the car is doing well, and while it isn't class leading in any respect, it is a very respectable offering, and I'd be happy to own one myself. I wonder what the future holds for it...

In the time Honda has had the Civic, GM had the Chevette...Cavalier...and Cobalt. DCX had the Aspen/Volare (I know I know, not that competitive, but it helps my point)...Omni/Horizon...Shadow/Sundance...Neon...now Caliber. Ford had the Pinto...Escort...now Focus.

GM had 3 entry nameplates, DCX had 5, and Ford had 3. One reason I hear of Civic buyers buying Civics is because "its a Civic." Ever hear anyone say "its a Cobalt?"

I sincerely hope we get better small cars in the case of the Caliber and Focus, and that the Cobalt isn't left to rot. Further, I hope we don't get more name changes because the Big 3 are so embarrassed of what they gave us before!!!

Just a random rant...staring out my front window at a Honda store every morning gets me going :D

I think neglect, in general. It appears that the big three automakers make something of a hit once in a while, and attempt to cash in on it until it bleeds to death. Then because the model was abandoned during its latter years, it conjures bad associations. Hence the need to make a "new" model.

Japanese automakers appear to be focusing on improving existing models. Instead of shutting down current gen-Civic, they redesign/rebuild/improve the Civic and keep the name.

I'll take a shot at it. To be a decent small car it needs to do well overseas as well. In some European countries and car with a displacement larger than 2.0l has to pay an excise tax similar to our gas-guzzler tax. So why only offer a 2.2l four on some models? Heck F1 is now running 2.0l V8s so we know the technology is capable of building a smaller motor with adequate performance. Secondly, I've seriously been looking at small commuter cars with gas prices on the rise. Yet as much as I'd like to stay brand loyal, the combined city/highway fuel economy of the GM products is abysmal when you compare it to the imports. The euros and asians have been building small cars for years while the domestics were focusing on big V8 land yachts. Then we moved to trucks and SUVs and still don't get why the imports are kicking our ass. Additionally, the domestics need to embrace hybrids. Toyota is so far out in front; they've now patented most of the good ideas in hybrid technology. To counter this, the domestics are pushing E85. Sure its a great solution, but by the time E85 is readily available nationwide, hybrid technology may have advanced to a point where its much cheaper than it its today and the hybrid experts will just embrace E85 as well and provide the knock out punch. Lastly, is quality. In order to build a successful small car, it needs to be cheap. But only cheap in price, not in quality and not in reliability. It just doesn't appear feasible that domestic manufacturers can produce a cheap small car that doesn't feel cheap, look cheap and that is reliable enough to be a daily driver. This is mostly due in part to the cost of labor. To offset the labor costs, the domestics need to invest more into automation and try to reduce the manpower it puts into manufacturing but at the same time improve build quality. Still, to make it all work, they need to get some young, creative minds involved than can build sexy small cars. After all, if it looks like a turd, who cares how cheap it is, or how well it’s built?

What really makes me mystified, is why Ford refused to bring the updated European version of the Focus over here, and instead "freshened" the first-gen one. :think:

And yeah, I agree with the neglect thing as well. The big 3 have always tended to not bother with making their small entry-level cars anything special. And the Japanese manufacturers have taken advantage of that.

What really makes me mystified, is why Ford refused to bring the updated European version of the Focus over here, and instead "freshened" the first-gen one. :think:



If the Euro focus and the Opel Astra were in the states in full trim offering they are in the UK , the US would own the compact market . Good thing it looks like the new Saturn Ion replacement is the Astra , and the new redesigned one is even hotter than the current .

As long as Chevy keeps updating the Cobalt , it will remain viable . Im at 26,000 miles on mine with nothing but smiles :) 2007 gets minor interior updates and trim changes , in 2008 well see just how much Chevy wants to stay in the thick of it . Thats when the 1st major refresh is .

I agree with you on the Calibur . Its so plain and just blah .

DCX seems stuck on the 300C design, and the caliber is like a mini magnum. They make a hit and beat it to the ground and wait for their next big thing. Ford seems to be trying to do a little better now but everyone needs to freshen their lineup.

Heck F1 is now running 2.0l V8s so we know the technology is capable of building a smaller motor with adequate performance.

They are running 2.4L v8s. Not trying to nitpick, but being a fan of F1, this was bugging me.

They are running 2.4L v8s. Not trying to nitpick, but being a fan of F1, this was bugging me.

Or a rev-limited 3.0L V10. Although I don't know if anyone is actually running that still, or if everyone switched to N/A 2.4L V8.

Or a rev-limited 3.0L V10. Although I don't know if anyone is actually running that still, or if everyone switched to N/A 2.4L V8.

Sorry, typo. I knew it was 2.4L :D But yes Torro Rosso is still running the rev limited 3.0L V10s.

Still my point was, the technology exists, albeit european and japanese at the moment. ;)

What really makes me mystified, is why Ford refused to bring the updated European version of the Focus over here, and instead "freshened" the first-gen one. :think:

The Cheapest European Focus, the Studio, starts at £11,395. That is $20,962.24 U.S.

The top of the line, the Focus ST, is £17,520, that's $32,229.72.

The Euro Focus is cool, but there's not a market here for a base Focus that's more than a V6 Fusion or a sport model (ST) that costs more than a Mustang GT. The platform is expensive. They sold the first generation Focus in Europe for 2 years before selling it here to amortize costs.

"Foreign" automakers put a lot of their empesis into their entry level cars. At first all they sold were econoboxes. So they built them with quality and whatnot as if they were flagship models. Big 3 were selling mid level models and high end, so their "econoboxes" were just something with corners cut in every area to reduce cost.

Though FWIW, the K-car outlasted a lot of "imports" in its era, and we just sold off an 86 Buick that has seen 200,000 hard miles before it died.

The Cheapest European Focus, the Studio, starts at £11,395. That is $20,962.24 U.S.

The top of the line, the Focus ST, is £17,520, that's $32,229.72.

The Euro Focus is cool, but there's not a market here for a base Focus that's more than a V6 Fusion or a sport model (ST) that costs more than a Mustang GT. The platform is expensive. They sold the first generation Focus in Europe for 2 years before selling it here to amortize costs.


Don't those prices include the Value Added Tax?

The platform is expensive. They sold the first generation Focus in Europe for 2 years before selling it here to amortize costs.tell that to mazda.

For the domestic automakers, small cars have always been a car that they didn't want to make, but felt they had to in order to prevent product line voids.

They've been mostly laughable (and terrible) since we started making small cars back in the '50s. A few bright spots here and there, but that's about it.

The Focus is the saddest of them all. It was so promising, then the quality issues, then the product design stagnation....That car cries "I coulda been a contenda" everytime I see one.

You really can't compare european prices with prices we pay here. Example, the Holden Monaro (our Pontiac GTO) sells as a Vauxhall Monaro/GTO in the UK and stickers somewhere north of $76K US. :eek: