Isky or Comp cam?

They both have similar #s, isky 236/246 comp 236/242, the only difference between the 2 cams is that the comp has ICL of 106 where as the isky is 110. Both cams are ground on a 110 LSA. MY question is, is there an advantage of the ICL being the same as the LSA?

Thanks,
Jeremy

Do you know what the valve timing degree numbers are? That's a big variable that makes a different in the power.

Ok here is the timing the Comp is at .006 and the Isky at .020. These are the only #s I have right now.


Comp
Intake o/c: 38/70
Exhust o/c: 81/33

Isky
Intake o/c: 31/71
Exhust o/c: 77/37

By the was the isky is 234/246

Get the Isky. Isky cams always tend to make more power. I've never heard a bad experience with dealing with Isky. Can't say the same for others including comp cams.

Isky is a good ole boy, if you work close enough with him then you get what you want. Personally I would rather go with the company that wins those races, COMP. The most complex valvetrains on race engine V8's in the country are on NASCAR Winston Cup cars, and who is 42 out of 43 cars? Comp. Those guys have great minds doing quality work there and they are who I work with. It's just me, but I do think Isky is where they are because of advertising and not product, and I'm 24 and have even seen the old 5th cycle B.S.

Bret

BTW the Jew part was probably not appropriate!

All I was asking was if there was an advantage to having a cam with 4 deg of adv ground into it compared to a cam that has none. Anyone else have comments?.......or stories ;)

The post with the offensive ethnic slur has been removed, along with the followups. "Totenkopf" has been requested to refrain from this kind of stuff.

I apologize that I wasn't here to remove the post immediately.

Fred

I obviously misunderstood what you were asking. No there is no advantage. They both could be installed "straight up" with no advance. Since the cam is connected to the crank, the cam can be adjusted forward or backward, which would change the installed centerline angle. I would recommend calling both cam companys cust service and asking the same questions to both and ask for a recommendation based on your combination. i believe this will let you know who you'd most like to deal with. And as for the guy who said he'd rather have the company thats used by more winning cars, I say I'd rather have the company who's parts are actually in the car, not just have the decal on the side. And last I knew, from recent circ track mags, nascar uses isky springs and retainers almost exclusively! Even the cars with the comp cams decal have Isky parts inside. And they grind their own camshafts or at least have them ground to their own "secret specs". You may say its because of the ads but I contend that comp cams spends 10 times as much on ads and endorsements. Lingenfelter was a comp cams endorser but guess what, he grinds his own! Hmmm... if they were so great, why didn't he use them? I think Isky got to be a legend because of all the legendary drivers who they helped propel. Don Garlits used isky cams till the end. I don't think he was just fooled by adds!

As far as I have seen.. the walrus is purty accurate.. those guys run a decal and thats it. Aside from that, they run whatever the hell they think will make power. Whether comp, crower, isky etc. grinds some of our race cams, itll be OUR lobe.. so what does it matter, provided their processes produce something within tolerances?

I think the advertising fluff argument is pretty funny... the only one I know of spending all their $ on advertising is Comp...

As far as what cam to run.. methinks it depends on the rest of your setup =P. Either one should make good power really.. but it depends.

walrus108:

if you changed the ICL of the comp wouldnt it change the timing of opening and closeing of the valves and therefore change the power curve and peak power?

About the NASCAR thing, yeah they can use Isky Springs. All the companies get their springs from the same people anyways. Let's see, there were alot of teams grinding their own camshafts a few years ago, guess what? They found out that Comp knows more about it than they do. Guess who just switched back to Comp, and who used to grind their own? Roush. Yeah the cat in the hat found out that they can't do it better. It's not jsut the cams but look what team has more drivers in the top ten in points this year? Sterling Marlin's team (Ganassi) uses Comp and so does Joe Gibbs. I have a feeling that Comp will win the champsionship.

The problem is that the teams don't have the guy or the knowledge or the machines to do it as well as Comp. Period. You really think that the physics of lobe design any ole ape can do? There is far more physics in that then anybody on this board wants to get into, or probably can. We are talking about V, V^2 (A), V^3 (JERK), V^4, V^5, all of these have alot to do with making that flat lifter stay on the lobe and not break, bounce or destroy itself @ 9500rpm. That's just the design, the parts such as the camshaft are run on an old dynosaur of a machine, but it and the operatior are the best cam grinders in the country. BTW that old machine is used exclusively for Winston Cup Cams.

The top 20 in the Daytona 500 are Comp, if you have ever heard or spoke with some of their design talent then you would know why they are so good.

As far as advertising goes........ Who puts out the B.S. adds? Crane, I mean come on they take two cams and say, this one made more power. Yeah that sells cams, but it has nothing to do with what is really going on. Comp could do the same thing back. They don't, you never saw Comp adds untill recently. Between them and Schrick they do the most high end racing camshafts in the world. Period.

I'm not saying Isky is all adds, but I find it hard to believe that they have the stuff behind them that Comp does.

On top of that Top Fuel cams are not that hard to do, the engine runs at one RPM making max power there and the clutch catches the car up to the engine. The stuff the NASCAR boys is doing is the craziest stuff in the county. BTW the NASCAR boys have to prove the parts behind the Decals, they get tore down and those companies know what's going on and who is using what. You don't get contigency money for a Decal.

Sorry about the rant. Comp has helped me alot and I just feel like sticking up for them.

Bret

The whole point of the different ICL is that you get the intake valve to close at the right point. If the lift is the same on the two cams then buy the cheaper one and degree that puppy in. If the lifts are different buy the one with more lift then you will get more area for the duration you are using.

Bret

Noone's bashing comp, everyone uses a ton of their stuff, but they arent the end all be all, and not all of your info is correct at present moment from what I've seen, but i'll keep my mouth shut b/c it's irrelevant and I probably shouldn't say anyway what the Charlotte, NC based teams are using.

Whether this guy gets the cam from comp, crower, isky, lunati, etc. they can all probably figure out a grind that will make satisfactory power in a streetcar. Who cares who it comes from? How'd a question about two different sticks get turned into some silly "I think comp is the best so screw you guys!" thread...

Originally posted by SkarodoM
Noone's bashing comp, everyone uses a ton of their stuff, but they arent the end all be all, and not all of your info is correct at present moment from what I've seen, but i'll keep my mouth shut b/c it's irrelevant and I probably shouldn't say anyway what the Charlotte, NC based teams are using.

Whether this guy gets the cam from comp, crower, isky, lunati, etc. they can all probably figure out a grind that will make satisfactory power in a streetcar. Who cares who it comes from? How'd a question about two different sticks get turned into some silly "I think comp is the best so screw you guys!" thread...

I don't know?

Shoot me a e-mail with that info. When you see the teams that are running at the front this year and you see the guys running Hendrick Engines which had the parts break in all of their engines. Either way it's interesting.

So if I ever get #s for both cams at .050 should I compare them there or with the advertised timing #s?

Phil dunno either bro :D

I suppose we all favor certain brands, especially those we have acquaintances/friends at.

As far as telling.. really.. I dont think I should.. lest the people who are kind enough to be my mentors decide to stop telling me whatever I ask & showing me things. I shouldn't have said anything.. it really doesnt matter. D'oh, I know that sounds bad.. need to learn to quietly say things in my head before speaking, juuust like we talked about, lol. FWIW.. in the cup engines our heads have gone on... most of those had grinds from comp :D. I just like those cool hard tubes they send $1500 camshafts in instead of the chincy boxes they pack the things I can afford in :( :D

Mast, you can get a relative idea of what's faster if you have consistent reference points.. I'd call and ask if anyone can tell you numbers at .006/.020 etc.

EDIT: argh, typo

All depends on who you talk to. Ask Jim Oddy and he'll tell you to go with Isky, David Reher has his own opinion, as does Kenny Duttweiler, Scott Schafiroff, Joe Sherman etc..
So what's the point?
They've all had some degree of success with one or many different cam manufacturers. Nascar.... only one of a million motorsports.

Chuck Riddeck

Originally posted by Mr. Horsepower
All depends on who you talk to. Ask Jim Oddy and he'll tell you to go with Isky, David Reher has his own opinion, as does Kenny Duttweiler, Scott Schafiroff, Joe Sherman etc..
So what's the point?
They've all had some degree of success with one or many different cam manufacturers. Nascar.... only one of a million motorsports.

Chuck Riddeck

Yeah, everone picks different people. Joe Sherman knows Isky really well, and he does very well with them. Hell he's got a good name in CA, and it's going to grow I have a feeling. Can't say why, but that old boy can build an engine. He does get good help though.

Bret

I personally have always really liked using Isky or Crower cams. I feel that generally the quality control is better at those companies than most others, and in general people are more willing to go the extra mile for you.
Isky is very fast, if you need a custom grind shipped tomorrow, they'll make it happen. Keep in mind also, Isky is the oldest (or one of the oldest) custom cam manufacturers in the country... make no mistake they have all the knowledge and R&D abilities as Comp.
Crower is great for their tech service, Dave Crower will spend hours on the phone with you working out a custom grind based on whatever you need. The man is VERY smart and listens to what you need. I also belive that Crower uses better materials than ANYONE else in the cam business. Again this is a old company that has broken a lot of ground in the Hi-performance market... don't doubt their R&D dept for a second.

In my experience timing the cams in my (2 valve) motorcycle engine, going to a higher number on the intake center weakened the low rpm power. The manufacturer specified intake center at 107.5 and when I went to 110 the powerband became much "cammier".

Originally posted by SStrokerAce
Yeah, everone picks different people. Joe Sherman knows Isky really well, and he does very well with them. Hell he's got a good name in CA, and it's going to grow I have a feeling. Can't say why, but that old boy can build an engine. He does get good help though.

Bret

Sherman is quite a character... I've actually talked to him a few times. He's admitadly old school and that's nothing but good in my book. Make it inexpensive, turn as many rpm as you can with it (cause that's the only way to achieve high hp/cid #s) and gear the wee out of it.
At 60+ years old, Joe's got a bit of seasoning to him. It's often times tough to beat experience... savvy will only go so far. I've learned that you're often times better off learning from a guy like Joe than trying to beat him.:)

Joe likes Isky, likes big cams too.... goes hand in hand with his "spin it and gear it" philosophy.
Personally, I've used Isky, Crower, Comp, Kent, Reed, Ultradyne, Elgin, Erson, Crane.. you name it.
One thing I know is that there are some really good grinds from all of these companies. Sometimes they just get it right! I have my personal favorites which seem to always fit the application at hand almost perfectly. I'm not bias in that regard although I do check ever cam I test for straightness, hardness and lobe phase. If it's out of spec, I simply send it back. They all let something through the QC at times.
Just my personal experience FWIW.

Take care,
Chuck Riddeck

Originally posted by Mr. Horsepower
Sherman is quite a character... I've actually talked to him a few times. He's admitadly old school and that's nothing but good in my book. Make it inexpensive, turn as many rpm as you can with it (cause that's the only way to achieve high hp/cid #s) and gear the wee out of it.
At 60+ years old, Joe's got a bit of seasoning to him. It's often times tough to beat experience... savvy will only go so far. I've learned that you're often times better off learning from a guy like Joe than trying to beat him.:)
Chuck Riddeck

Chuck,

The problem is, I didn't have a choice we were in the same contest. Good thing is he couldn't spin it too high since the RPM level was limited! Either way, I give the guy the respect he deserves but I have no problem racing him, hell I hope he enters next year!

Bret

Hope you didn't take that the wrong way Bret. Just trying to humor the discussion a little... which I admit to being extremely poor at.;)

I'm not up on the rules of this "contest". Is there a rules list somewhere on the net?

A competetitive spirit is always a good thing, that's what keeps us pushing harder. Hey, there's always next year. Maybe I should look into this??

Take care,
Chuck Riddeck

Chuck,

Check your Private messages. No I didn't take it the wrong way, don't worry.

Next year is big blocks! The power, cubes and prices go up! The problem is that the rules have never been posted publicly, and the magazine readers need to know them. Basicly, throw out race parts, soild rollers, sheetmetal intakes and the such and run it on 92 Octane. It's a street engine challenge, but who buys a 365cube street engine for $17,000? It's a very driveable race engine, that's all!

Bret

"Engine Masters" Final Round Results:
http://www.enginemasters.com/rounduf.shtml

1st Round Results:
http://www.enginemasters.com/round1.shtml

You'll also see the "Rules Guide" link at the top of those pages. Interesting.

-Mindgame

Originally posted by Mindgame
"Engine Masters" Final Round Results:
http://www.enginemasters.com/rounduf.shtml

1st Round Results:
http://www.enginemasters.com/round1.shtml

You'll also see the "Rules Guide" link at the top of those pages. Interesting.

-Mindgame

Finally, I forgot those rules where there.

Yeah, my numbers that were posted were from a warm up run with no oil pressure. I yanked the engine to keep it from eating the bearings since you can't fix it once it's there. The contest is interesting. I'm a little pissed because my engine was worth 880+average at least! My guess was 900 or so, and that's with out coatings. The top guy had 903 with a ton of coatings! I am taking it back to the site soon to do another offical dyno to get the results just so I know what it could do. I told Parkhurst before it ran it would run a 885. The highest number out west at that time was a 882. Dam, Without coatings it was a 2nd or 3rd place engine. This really gets me now.

I just checked out those results! OH MY GOD! Tim Bartholomew went from 795 average to 872! and he was at our site. (a 9.7% difference!) That's funny because he was a Super funny guy. We had a conversation about our engines before they ran just between us. I had him by like 20-30hp. He just told his boys "we might as well pack up and go home, Bret wouped us!" I wasn't blowing smoke us his ass either. Everyone did a little better but those numbers are sick in comparison. The east cost guys were anywhere from 7-10% higher in CA!

Oh well it happens. I getting ready for the Big Block shootout next year. 1200+ is the average next year with most likely 468 cube Big Blocks. Yes it will be a Chevy.

I'm still stunned how westech had such hig numbers. The other sites increase at least 6% or more! that's crazy. They tried to get all the dynos to test the same. Which obviously didn't work.

Oh well. At least I can talk about that now. The first day I got back to the shop after the qualifing rounds I was determined to win the next one. I wish that she didn't lose oil pressure and had worked with Swain, I'm almost confident that I would have pulled a 920 then. I didn't do that so I can't say that either.

Anyways. I'm going to bed pissed off about that.

Late,

Bret