Cheap V8. Is there a niche below Camaro?

Okay, the other thread has some people freaked out at the prospect of V8 Camaros starting in the high $20's.

Is there room for a cheap V8 product below Camaro? What should it be, and which division should get it?

And....V8 Colorados are supposedly around the corner....would that suffice?

Seems a larger engine usually carries a larger price tag. I would love to see like, an AWD wagon Malibu with a 4.6 Northstar. :cool:

IMO, why can't Pontiac get a small V8 AWD sedan to compete against the likes of the Mazdaspeed 6?

And....V8 Colorados are supposedly around the corner....would that suffice?depends on the price.;)

The cheap V8.....belongs......... as an option in the base Camaro.

That is where it is the most important to the vehicle itself.

Seems a larger engine usually carries a larger price tag. I would love to see like, an AWD wagon Malibu with a 4.6 Northstar. :cool:
4.6 N* costs quite a bit more, meaning higher price, to make than the Gen IV motors AND it is larger and heavier. Also thinking about weight distribution and handling which would you prefer in a FWD based AWD config?

The cheap V8.....belongs......... as an option in the base Camaro.

That is where it is the most important to the vehicle itself.

x2...

Camaro IS the cheap V8!

The cheap V8.....belongs......... as an option in the base Camaro.

That is where it is the most important to the vehicle itself.

:yes:

IMO, why can't Pontiac get a small V8 AWD sedan to compete against the likes of the Mazdaspeed 6?

Or....a turbo 2.0 motor in a AWD EP II G6 making 300hp, therefor beating the 6, and being attractive to the import market, as well as getting domesticites into the car as well.

depends on the price.;)


I'm thinking low $20's. Which would put it below any possible V8 Camaro, both in cost and sophistication. And to not step on Camaro's toes, NOT a ponycar. We were talking about a Nomad in another thread for example.

Anyway, we're talking CHEAP V8. Live axle, cloth/vinyl seats...you get the idea.

It would have to be in an existing vehicle. Otherwise, I don't think there would be enough sales to justify development. I like the V8 GMT355 idea, almost enough to vote with my pocketbook. Throw in an interior that is 85-90% as sophisticated as GMT900 and I'd be sold.

It would have to be in an existing vehicle. Otherwise, I don't think there would be enough sales to justify development. I like the V8 GMT355 idea, almost enough to vote with my pocketbook. Throw in an interior that is 85-90% as sophisticated as GMT900 and I'd be sold.

I agree. If we play fantasy product planning, it would almost have to be off of GMT355.

Kappa V8 Firebird ;)

Anyway, we're talking CHEAP V8. Live axle, cloth/vinyl seats...you get the idea.
and thats an idea that i like. just make it available with a stick.:D

The cheap V8.....belongs......... as an option in the base Camaro.

That is where it is the most important to the vehicle itself.

Ding ding ding!!!

So basically, save for styling, we are talking about putting an 8 into a car that would normally have a 4. If it existed. :think:

With people crying about energy left and right doesen't really make sense to me.

I've lately thought the idea of a RWD/AWD Malibu with avialable I4, V6 and a small V8 for options. Keep the V8 small, 4.8 and/or 5.3, to keep insurance prices down. I know I would buy one if I could get one for 25k.

and thats an idea that i like. just make it available with a stick.:D


I'd bet if you gave GM Brazil access to GMT355 and $50 million, they could design and manufacture a really inexpensive RWD, V8 car ...... with a stick.

GM Brazil seems to have the uncanny ability to put programs together with cast off platforms and obsolete parts.

They could sell it here and in South America.

I'd bet if you gave GM Brazil access to GMT355 and $50 million, they could design and manufacture a really inexpensive RWD, V8 car ...... with a stick.

GM Brazil seems to have the uncanny ability to put programs together with cast off platforms and obsolete parts.

They could sell it here and in South America.
Don't forget US regs. We could do it here to if we didn't have to design for 10/150K and zero damage while being rammed from behind by a locomotive at 45mph. Well, maybe I exaggerated a little...

Don't forget US regs. We could do it here to if we didn't have to design for 10/150K and zero damage while being rammed from behind by a locomotive at 45mph. Well, maybe I exaggerated a little...

They'd have to meet them, just like Daewoo does. I'm sure lots could carryover from 355.

If another cheaper V8 RWD car slots below camaro, then camaro has failed to be what it should be.

If another cheaper V8 RWD car slots below camaro, then camaro has failed to be what it should be.

I don't know...think of it as a Nova.

Anyway, I'm thinking of something substantially cheaper than the Camaro's segment. Just as a reference point, a regular cab, 2wd, Silverado 1500 with 4.8 and 5 speed can be priced on Chevy.com for $17,660.

I'd bet if you gave GM Brazil access to GMT355 and $50 million, they could design and manufacture a really inexpensive RWD, V8 car ...... with a stick.

GM Brazil seems to have the uncanny ability to put programs together with cast off platforms and obsolete parts.

They could sell it here and in South America.

It wouldn't meet passenger car safety standards (or if it did squeak by, it would get poor ratings on the optional tests). It would be too heavy, so it would get stuck with the gas guzzler tax. Because of this, it would sell poorly, and because of that, it would be expensive.

The Bel Air was the car based on a truck chassis. Too heavy. Too primitive. It sounds neat at first, but when you do the full business case and try to figure out who'd buy it, it turns out that people want retro-looking cars and not the retro cars themselves.

I thought we were trying to get away from cars that felt like, and were super cheap?

If we are just trying to make an ultra cheap fun car I dont think that neccesitates a V8.

Hell if Camaro gets the 300ish hp v6 you were just talking about at 18k then why would you really want a 330 hp V8 in a 14k car that feels like the catalogue of GM parts that it is. Especially in the face of a car that is pretty much gonna be bred for performance from the ground up?

It wouldn't meet passenger car safety standards (or if it did squeak by, it would get poor ratings on the optional tests).

What makes you say that?

GMT355 vehicles have mostly 5 star ratings.

What makes you say that?

GMT355 vehicles have mostly 5 star ratings.

Trucks usually don't do too well. I went to the trouble to look up the Colorado. It did actually make a good rating on the front IIHS test, but only a marginal from the rear. Side was not tested.

For NHTSA, it's actually mostly 4-star ratings. Out of 11 ratings, 9 had four, and 2 had 5 stars. What about roof crush standards? When to pickups have to start meeting those? But never mind. Let's assume it's safe enough.

It's still too heavy. Nearly 3700 pounds for a 2wd 5 cylinder. Put a sedan or coupe body on it and add a V8, and you have 4000+ pounds. With a pickup suspension. Pickup ride height. Means poor aero. Which means gas guzzler. And it would drive like a truck.

Even if I were interested (and I might be -- I drive a Suzuki GV and I have a couple of early 70s Cutlasses after all) I just don't think the appeal would be there in the numbers GM would need to get the cost down.

Even if I were interested (and I might be -- I drive a Suzuki GV and I have a couple of early 70s Cutlasses after all) I just don't think the appeal would be there in the numbers GM would need to get the cost down.

And that there is the question. Would it appeal to enough people? The whole deal with the Bel Air concept was to explore the viability of a BOF car. The reason being low cost compared to a more common unibody.

If you could go into your Chevy dealer, and get a decent new car, with adequate chassis dynamics, smallblock V8, manual trans, for $18 or $19K (again, below where the Camaro would be priced, making that argument moot),............would we get any takers?

And that there is the question. Would it appeal to enough people? The whole deal with the Bel Air concept was to explore the viability of a BOF car. The reason being low cost compared to a more common unibody.

If you could go into your Chevy dealer, and get a decent new car, with adequate chassis dynamics, smallblock V8, manual trans, for $18 or $19K (again, below where the Camaro would be priced, making that argument moot),............would we get any takers?
I say no. Too many nice HO 4's and 6's in that range that would give a nicer complete package. Think about it, would you buy the vehicle you are proposing over a turbo Nomad or even turbo Cobalt? I sure wouldn't. The market has moved on...

I say no. Too many nice HO 4's and 6's in that range that would give a nicer complete package. Think about it, would you buy the vehicle you are proposing over a turbo Nomad or even turbo Cobalt? I sure wouldn't. The market has moved on...

I agree. V8s are dead with the younger generation. If anything they'd be better off slapping the supercharged Ecotec in a Aveo and selling it as an entry level pocket rocket. (Or the turbo version the Solstice is getting, whichever is cheaper to build for GM and cheaper to maintain for the buyer.) Few kids today are into V8 RWD cars like we were at that age. (My youngest is a rare exception.) A low priced V8 car priced in the Cobalt range just wouldn't sell. Image and style are more important to today's youth than a V8 rumble. As technology advances, sure V8s will continue to be more fuel efficient; however, nowhere close to the efficiency you can get with a HO 4 or 6, which can generate just as much performance as an eight once you slap on a power-adder. :D

I say no. Too many nice HO 4's and 6's in that range that would give a nicer complete package. Think about it, would you buy the vehicle you are proposing over a turbo Nomad or even turbo Cobalt? I sure wouldn't. The market has moved on...

Well, I might, but I see your point. I look at something like a 4.7 V8, six speed manual, Dakota for $20,470 (under 17K with $3,500 rebate), and just see an incredible value.

But I guess that $3,500 is on the hood for a reason.

Well, I might, but I see your point. I look at something like a 4.7 V8, six speed manual, Dakota for $20,470 (under 17K with $3,500 rebate), and just see an incredible value.

But I guess that $3,500 is on the hood for a reason.
Yep, I guess that speaks for itself. DCX does still make a profit at that price, albeit much less than a savings account.

I agree. V8s are dead with the younger generation.

No, they are not. I know plenty of guys back when I was in high school that either wanted or had a v8 car. It hasn't been that long since I have been in high school. I still know plenty of younger people that drive v8 muscle.

Seems like The Fast and the Furious did more than brainwash a few kids. It gave older generations misconceptions and generalizations. If someone could make a really, really cheap v8 car I have no doubt it would sell.

Seems like The Fast and the Furious did more than brainwash a few kids. It gave older generations misconceptions and generalizations. If someone could make a really, really cheap v8 car I have no doubt it would sell.

I can only speak for myself, but I'd probably buy one just on general principal. And if it had the utility of...say...a BOF Nomad (the 1999 concept), it would sure be hard to ignore.

No, they are not. I know plenty of guys back when I was in high school that either wanted or had a v8 car. It hasn't been that long since I have been in high school. I still know plenty of younger people that drive v8 muscle.

Seems like The Fast and the Furious did more than brainwash a few kids. It gave older generations misconceptions and generalizations. If someone could make a really, really cheap v8 car I have no doubt it would sell.
Did those guys you were with in high school all buy new cars? :D

BTW - Nice job of creatively quoting me. :irk: I also said:

... Few kids today are into V8 RWD cars like we were at that age. (My youngest is a rare exception.) ...

My son drives a V8 Tahoe LT that's been slammed and modified. Before that we built a 67 Camaro together. Before that he drove a supercharged 96 Mustang GT. (He turns 20 in a few weeks.) However, protest all you like, but young guys like you and my son are in the minority. It simply isn't profitable to build a Cobalt priced no frills V8 sports coupe, when most people that buy in that price range would rather get more bang for their buck. (We're talking options not cubic inches here.) The HHR is in the same price range and is a hit because of its styling, not because of its performance. Furthermore, the minority that are into V8 muscle in that price range are more likely to buy used and get more than they would with a new stripped down V8 sports coupe.

I still say it makes far more sense to build a SS version of the Aveo for around $15K than anything else. :D

No, they are not. I know plenty of guys back when I was in high school that either wanted or had a v8 car. It hasn't been that long since I have been in high school. I still know plenty of younger people that drive v8 muscle.

Seems like The Fast and the Furious did more than brainwash a few kids. It gave older generations misconceptions and generalizations. If someone could make a really, really cheap v8 car I have no doubt it would sell.

I agree with this. Its just that kids can't afford most V8 cars anymore. My first car was a 77 Cutlass Supreme 350 Rocket. My second car was a '85 LG5 Camaro V8 with a whopping 155 hp.

Sure neither was a performance car in the true sense but V8s give a "muscle" feel even if they aren't very powerful. 20 years ago V8 cars were common. Now they are exceedingly rare.

If cheap V8s were made available again I think a whole new generation of kids would gladly give up Ricerdom for V8 land. Most ricers secretly want a V8 muscle car, they just can't afford them.

It's because back in the day the only way to get close to 200HP was with a "big" V8. Since you can make that power with practically any motor now, the buyers don't care about the number of cylinders as much. V8s do sound better, but that takes a backseat to practically everything else for most buyers.

It's because back in the day the only way to get close to 200HP was with a "big" V8. Since you can make that power with practically any motor now, the buyers don't care about the number of cylinders as much. V8s do sound better, but that takes a backseat to practically everything else for most buyers.

That's a lot clearer than what I said, but basically the same principle. ;)

My son drives a V8 Tahoe LT that's been slammed and modified. Before that we built a 67 Camaro together. Before that he drove a supercharged 96 Mustang GT. (He turns 20 in a few weeks.) However, protest all you like, but young guys like you and my son are in the minority.D

I spend a lot of time hanging out on college campuses, and go to parties and bars every so often. I talk to a lot my peers, strangers and friends alike. Chris is very accurate in his previous post. Young people don't buy v8s, because there are no v8s to buy. A lot of young people want new cars, and very few cheap new cars on the market offer a v6, let alone a v8. There are still no shortage of guys who want and appreciate v8 power. I still hear v8s roar done the street easily as often as I hear Integras/Civics/Eclipses go down the street in West Chester, right by the college campus, on a Thursday/Friday/Saturday night. I just can't agree with your summary, and I believe I have more than enough experience talking with the "younger generation" to warrant my claim.

I agree with this. Its just that kids can't afford most V8 cars anymore. My first car was a 77 Cutlass Supreme 350 Rocket. My second car was a '85 LG5 Camaro V8 with a whopping 155 hp.

Sure neither was a performance car in the true sense but V8s give a "muscle" feel even if they aren't very powerful. 20 years ago V8 cars were common. Now they are exceedingly rare.

If cheap V8s were made available again I think a whole new generation of kids would gladly give up Ricerdom for V8 land. Most ricers secretly want a V8 muscle car, they just can't afford them.

How much was gas back then? Seriously. My first car (circa 1984) was a 1967 Chevelle with a small cheap 283 cid V8. I can remember driving across town to buy gas because there was an Arco station selling it for 99¢ a gallon. I couldn't afford a new car then because insurance was so expensive. I remember paying $2200 a year for insurance on a car that cost me only $600. Sure it wasn't my dream car, a 67-8 Camaro, but it had a V8 and sounded cool once I put a manifold back true dual exhaust on it. (I made no other mods other than a hood scoop and new stereo.) But that was then and this is now. Gas is now $3.35 a gallon at that same Arco station, and kids today can buy a cheap Honda, slap on a fart-cannon exhaust and turbo and get the same performance feeling.

You guys are kidding yourselves about this theory that most kids would give up their imports for a V8 if they could afford them. Why would they? Turn on Nopi Tunervision and watch some sport compact/import drag racing. These guys are putting big money into cheap imports and putting up numbers we never saw back in the day with a RWD American V8. Look at the music and all the hot young girls hanging all over these kids. There ain't one damn V8 in the crowd. Are you seriously saying these kids would give that all up for a cheap V8 musclecar? Wake-up! :rolleyes:

I spend a lot of time hanging out on college campuses, and go to parties and bars every so often. I talk to a lot my peers, strangers and friends alike. Chris is very accurate in his previous post. Young people don't buy v8s, because there are no v8s to buy. A lot of young people want new cars, and very few cheap new cars on the market offer a v6, let alone a v8. There are still no shortage of guys who want and appreciate v8 power. I still hear v8s roar done the street easily as often as I hear Integras/Civics/Eclipses go down the street in West Chester, right by the college campus, on a Thursday/Friday/Saturday night. I just can't agree with your summary, and I believe I have more than enough experience talking with the "younger generation" to warrant my claim.
You hear V8s because you yourself are a V8 fan and that is what you are drawn to. Your friends you hang out with will tend to like the same things, that's why you hang with them. Hey I have been hanging around college campuses for the past 6 years while visiting with my sons and watching them play basketball. I see the cars kids are driving. Our house was the party house in high school where all the kids come to hang out. When my sons were/are home during break, it still is. Maybe demographics and economic environment come into play, but the V8 musclecars were few and far between. Its not like these kids couldn't afford them, because mommy and daddy were buying them beemers, Lexuses (or would that be Lexi?), Hondas, etc. I only know of one or two of my son's friends that also drive or drove V8 American musclecars, the others were more concerned with stereos, big wheels and neon. Face it, you're in the minority. I think that's cool and love the fact that some of today's youth still love V8 American muscle, but the fact is your demographic are not going to be going out and buying many new sub $22k V8 musclecars, even if they were available. If they would, the manufacturers would build them in a heartbeat. But the kids don't, and the manufacturer's aren't and probably won't.

You hear V8s because you yourself are a V8 fan

I am a fan of way more than just v8s. I still hear every import and bike that goes by. I don't have an ear for only v8s, and I don't have a GM only attitude. My next car may not even be a domestic. Still waiting to see how this new Camaro turns out.

Your friends you hang out with will tend to like the same things, that's why you hang with them.

Uh, thats why I said strangers too.


I only know of one or two of my son's friends that also drive or drove V8 American musclecars, the others were more concerned with stereos, big wheels and neon.

That doesn't just go for imports. The majority of young guys prefer this over performance in any of their cars, no matter the flavor.



Face it, you're in the minority.

Um, no. I am not saying domestic loving guys are the majority, far from it, but I wouldn't say they are some dying breed either. Sorry your son only has two friends that have v8 cars.



I think that's cool and love the fact that some of today's youth still love V8 American muscle, but the fact is your demographic are not going to be going out and buying many new sub $22k V8 musclecars, even if they were available. If they would, the manufacturers would build them in a heartbeat. But the kids don't, and the manufacturer's aren't and probably won't.

What demographic is there for a sub $22k v8 musclecar?? Last I checked, that type of vehicle doesn't exist. The manufacturers don't build them because I can't even begin to imagine how it would be feesible to build a decent, brand new, sub $22k v8 car.

What demographic is there for a sub $22k v8 musclecar?? Last I checked, that type of vehicle doesn't exist. The manufacturers don't build them because I can't even begin to imagine how it would be feesible to build a decent, brand new, sub $22k v8 car.

All good questions....probably worthy of it's own thread.

For starters, I guess it needs to be both cheap and cool. I really think the Bel Air had a pretty good crack at production...if it only wasn't so....well...dorky looking. It had the "cheap" part down though. Depending on who was doing the talking, the convertible, turbocharged, Bel Air would have sold for from $20K to $25K. Quite the value if you ask me. If we are to believe that, (and why wouldn't we), is it safe to say that a V8, hardtop Bel Air, could be sold for low 20's? Plausible.

So for that $22K.....if you could get a cool looking car, with a V8's burble, and chassis dynamics on par with a ZQ8....would anyone be interested? Would it gain conquest sales? I guess we may never know.

All good questions....probably worthy of it's own thread.

For starters, I guess it needs to be both cheap and cool. I really think the Bel Air had a pretty good crack at production...if it only wasn't so....well...dorky looking. It had the "cheap" part down though. Depending on who was doing the talking, the convertible, turbocharged, Bel Air would have sold for from $20K to $25K. Quite the value if you ask me. If we are to believe that, (and why wouldn't we), is it safe to say that a V8, hardtop Bel Air, could be sold for low 20's? Plausible.

So for that $22K.....if you could get a cool looking car, with a V8's burble, and chassis dynamics on par with a ZQ8....would anyone be interested? Would it gain conquest sales? I guess we may never know.

What's the difference between this hypothetical convertible Bel Air and the SSR, other than about $15K in list price? Wasn't part of the problem with the Bel Air that when they actually figured out how much it would cost at a projected volume that the lines no longer intersected at $20 to $25K?

What's the difference between this hypothetical convertible Bel Air and the SSR, other than about $15K in list price? Wasn't part of the problem with the Bel Air that when they actually figured out how much it would cost at a projected volume that the lines no longer intersected at $20 to $25K?


Well, that $15K difference (maybe even more like $20K or $25K), would be sort of a big deal, don't you think? I also think a car with a back seat could find more mainstream buyers than a $40-$50K boutique-y truck.


And I'm not really sure that the Bel Air's issues were cost related. In fact, cost wise, I think the case was pretty firm. It's issues came from near universal rejection of it's looks. Let's face it...it was frumpy. GM sure didn't get 300 emails per day (like the Camaro does)....saying "build the Bel Air".

Even after some members of the press drove it....no one had very much good to say about that big, bad, turbo, I5, (remember, there were no plans for a GMT355 V8 back then). One person told me after driving it, that it made strange noises...kind of like an old Vega, and that it didn't feel especially powerful.

At any rate, the Bel Air was a neat idea for a low cost RWD....which was unfortunately failed by it's poor execution. Too bad they couldn't combine the coolness of the SSR or Nomad ('99 or '04), with the very low cost of the Bel Air. I'd love to see GM take another crack at it. Maybe they could resurrect the 1999 Nomad's bodywork for it.

Well, that $15K difference (maybe even more like $20K or $25K), would be sort of a big deal, don't you think? I also think a car with a back seat could find more mainstream buyers than a $40-$50K boutique-y truck.


And I'm not really sure that the Bel Air's issues were cost related. In fact, cost wise, I think the case was pretty firm.

Yes, the $15k difference is huge, and that was at the heart of my question. Why was it so expensive? There isn't that big a difference between the SSR and a Bel Air from a cost standpoint. It makes me think that a Bel Air at $20-25K may not be realistic.

Yes, the $15k difference is huge, and that was at the heart of my question. Why was it so expensive? There isn't that big a difference between the SSR and a Bel Air from a cost standpoint. It makes me think that a Bel Air at $20-25K may not be realistic.

I'm not completely sure of the what/why regarding the cost difference between the Bel Air and SSR. But there are some obvious differences. The Bel Air was based off the dirt cheap GMT355. The SSR off the more expensive and sophisticated GMT360. The Bel Air had a conventional soft top, the SSR had an extremely expensive and complex foldable steel top. Stuff like that I suppose.

The other thing is, manufacturers don't necessarily calculate their manufactring costs on a vehicle, add 10% (or whatever), and come up with MSRP. It's really more a factor of what the market will bear (or what they think it'll bear). The Corvette for example, is one of the most profitable vehicles that GM sells. I mean, how much less than the $51+K asking price does it cost to make a Tahoe LTZ?

If you can buy a base Colorado for $15,590, I see no reason not to believe that the Bel Air would have cost $20K-$25K.

Oh....and I betcha a smallblock would have been even cheaper than the turbo I5 in the concept, too.

I'm not completely sure of the what/why regarding the cost difference between the Bel Air and SSR. But there are some obvious differences. The Bel Air was based off the dirt cheap GMT355. The SSR off the more expensive and sophisticated GMT360. The Bel Air had a conventional soft top, the SSR had an extremely expensive and complex foldable steel top. Stuff like that I suppose.

The other thing is, manufacturers don't necessarily calculate their manufactring costs on a vehicle, add 10% (or whatever), and come up with MSRP. It's really more a factor of what the market will bear (or what they think it'll bear). The Corvette for example, is one of the most profitable vehicles that GM sells. I mean, how much less than the $51+K asking price does it cost to make a Tahoe LTZ?

If you can buy a base Colorado for $15,590, I see no reason not to believe that the Bel Air would have cost $20K-$25K.

Oh....and I betcha a smallblock would have been even cheaper than the turbo I5 in the concept, too.

I recall that the SSR was more expensive than GM had originally anticipated, and also that you could get them with big discounts after some time. I think volume is critical for low pricing and that they wouldn't have hit it with the Bel Air, which would have meant higher pricing.

But who knows? People who do know wouldn't tell me.

Btw, how much more sophisticated is the GMT360 than the GMT355? The former is bigger, but they're both solid axle, body on frame.

I recall that the SSR was more expensive than GM had originally anticipated, and also that you could get them with big discounts after some time. I think volume is critical for low pricing and that they wouldn't have hit it with the Bel Air, which would have meant higher pricing.

But who knows? People who do know wouldn't tell me.

Btw, how much more sophisticated is the GMT360 than the GMT355? The former is bigger, but they're both solid axle, body on frame.
If I remember right GMT360 uses a more spophisticated rear suspension and it also uses a hydroformed frame whereas 355 uses leaf springs and standard cast frame.

Before we go overboard on the GMT-355 being dirt cheap....

I just built a loaded up a 4-door Colorado on www.chevy.com .... It was almost $31,000.

I think volume is critical for low pricing and that they wouldn't have hit it with the Bel Air, which would have meant higher pricing.



I agree. And you sure wouldn't get that volume from a stand alone convertible. So maybe some creative product planning would be required. A way to "sneak" in versions that low buck enthusiasts would find desirable.

I've mentioned the Nomad previously. Perhaps a Nomad could be developed under the auspices of a work or delivery truck to create volume. Kind of a partial replacement for the discontinued Astro/Safari. As a "truck" it would also add to GM's truck CAFE credits.

And it would of course, share mechanicals with the other GMT355's. Things like the uprated for '07 I4 and I5.....and certainly the upcoming 5.3.

So that's the deal. I can imagine the knowledgeable enthusiast going into a Chevy dealer, ordering a cool looking, (YES, it must look cool!), Nomad, and checking off the "Engine, Vortec 5300 SFI" box for $945, and the "Suspension Package, Sport (ZQ8)" for $450....and getting a pretty bitchin', RWD, V8, hotrod....for the price of a nicely equipped Caliber R/T.

So that's the deal. I can imagine the knowledgeable enthusiast going into a Chevy dealer, ordering a cool looking, (YES, it must look cool!), Nomad, and checking off the "Engine, Vortec 5300 SFI" box for $945, and the "Suspension Package, Sport (ZQ8)" for $450....and getting a pretty bitchin', RWD, V8, hotrod....for the price of a nicely equipped Caliber R/T.

You have been pretty stuck on this idea for awhile now, and truth be told, it is starting to grow on me some. Is there any merit to this? You have been bringing this up alot. Is this just your idle mind wandering, or has GM been brainstorming?

Even based off of a truck platform, a RWD v8 car/truck with a sport suspension package for the price of a well optioned Caliber would be hard to beat. I would see this vehicle selling pretty well. This is the kind of abstract thinking GM should be doing more of, if they aren't doing so already. Fresh new ideas.

I'm still not convinced a "Cheap V8" coupe is necessary. Sure, many here would love one, but unless it has dead sexy styling and charisma, no one is going to buy it. If GM decides to go that route, I'd think it would be more important to built an ultra cheap performance econobox first.

I think it would depend largely on how well GM makes a car with truck underpinnings peform and feel like a car, and not a small truck. Small rwd cars have sold in the past. 240SXs are still sought after by alot of young guys, with one of the big reasons being that they are rwd, and very cheap. If GM could offer a v8 options at a really low price point, it would only sweeten the deal. The vehicle Z284ever is describing would not likely have to sell in high volume, or at least that is how I take it when he used the word niche in the title.

Honestly.. I don't think this niche exists.. My hunch is if you go further down the pricerange, most people in this bracket would rather want more interior and overall refinment, rather than a bastardized truck platform under chassis'd car with a cheap V8.. When a properly designed platform from the beginning with a healthy V6 or even I4 would probably be better in all aspects, and may even be closer than you'd expect in straight line accel performance.

I'm still not convinced a "Cheap V8" coupe is necessary. Sure, many here would love one, but unless it has dead sexy styling and charisma, no one is going to buy it. If GM decides to go that route, I'd think it would be more important to built an ultra cheap performance econobox first.

I'm not convinced we need a coupe either, (or a even convertible, for that matter),...much too much overlap with other products. I think we need something else, something different...that's why I keep bringing up this Nomad, since it seems just about perfect for what I'm thinking of - for all the reasons I've already stated.

I mean look at the Scion xB. That thing was an old Japan market product at the very end of it's life cycle. Scion brings it here, gives it a snappy new name with a repackaged image....and BAM!...they're all over the place. And that's because, Toyota successfully tapped into what X-many-thousand people per year consider "cool", with an extremely cheap, different....almost whimsical product.

i want a RWD nomad.:D

Funny thing.....I was just reading how the introduction of a v8 in a small cheap car saved Pontiac back in the 50's....

Doesn't matter though, we'll never get a cheap v8 from GM again. I don't seem to sound too harsh, but you have guys with only a highschool education getting paid great amounts of money and getting insane benefits for their education level. And as long as they eat up at GM profits GM will continue to over price cars, and make less money.

If I remember right GMT360 uses a more spophisticated rear suspension and it also uses a hydroformed frame whereas 355 uses leaf springs and standard cast frame.

I see. I don't think leaf springs would be taken seriously on any sort of sporty car, would it? (yes, I know the Corvette is a leaf, but it's not the same as a pickup)

I see. I don't think leaf springs would be taken seriously on any sort of sporty car, would it? (yes, I know the Corvette is a leaf, but it's not the same as a pickup)


In this case, I don't think that would matter much. THIS, is all about, cool, cheap and smallblock pipe music.

You have been pretty stuck on this idea for awhile now, and truth be told, it is starting to grow on me some. Is there any merit to this? You have been bringing this up alot. Is this just your idle mind wandering, or has GM been brainstorming?

Even based off of a truck platform, a RWD v8 car/truck with a sport suspension package for the price of a well optioned Caliber would be hard to beat. I would see this vehicle selling pretty well. This is the kind of abstract thinking GM should be doing more of, if they aren't doing so already. Fresh new ideas.


No merit to this anymore. There was a time afew years ago, where it looked like something like this could possibly happen....but that time has past.

Perhaps the V8 Colorado can fill that role .

...the buyers don't care about the number of cylinders as much. V8s do sound better, but that takes a backseat to practically everything else for most buyers.
I disagree. Everyone I know cares, but they can't afford. What is the cheapest v8 vs. the cheapest 4cyl? I don't don't know, but off the top of my head I'm gonna guess its a $10k difference. I think the manufacturer forces enthusiasts into this position.

I disagree. Everyone I know cares, but they can't afford. What is the cheapest v8 vs. the cheapest 4cyl? I don't don't know, but off the top of my head I'm gonna guess its a $10k difference. I think the manufacturer forces enthusiasts into this position.

Do you think a V8 Colorado could make dent in that market?

Do you think a V8 Colorado could make dent in that market?

I don't think it could hurt.

Hopefully a Colorado V8 will just be another engine option and not grouped with an SS package.

You can get a Colorado LS Xtreme with 18"s 4cyl./5 speed for $17,380 ($250 rebate).

Add $1500 for the V8 and $1000 for an automatic or upgraded manual (T-56?) and you have a V8 Xtreme regular cab for $19,880. I could see something like that selling very good. Z71 owners would love a V8 too and would be willing to pay another ~$1200 to upgrade from a I5 to a 4.8L or 5.3L. In my opinion it is important that the V8 stay a solo option like on the Silverados.

I disagree. Everyone I know cares, but they can't afford. What is the cheapest v8 vs. the cheapest 4cyl? I don't don't know, but off the top of my head I'm gonna guess its a $10k difference. I think the manufacturer forces enthusiasts into this position.
You only know enthusiasts then ;)

I'd bet if you gave GM Brazil access to GMT355 and $50 million, they could design and manufacture a really inexpensive RWD, V8 car ...... with a stick.

GM Brazil seems to have the uncanny ability to put programs together with cast off platforms and obsolete parts.

They could sell it here and in South America.

Hey, guess what? I'm quoting myself, not only to feed my ego and demonstrate my self-importance....but also because it apparently appears that, *YES*, GM Brazil will have alot of responsibility transferred to it regarding future GMT355's. :think:

Very interesting.....

And this just in....

It looks like GM Brazil will be responsible for a future GMT355 variant to be sold here.

And GMNA has already re-engineered the engine compartment to take a smallblock.

And this just in....

It looks like GM Brazil will be responsible for a future GMT355 variant to be sold here.

And GMNA has already re-engineered the engine compartment to take a smallblock.
Yep, RFQ's are out there for V8's.

And this just in....

It looks like GM Brazil will be responsible for a future GMT355 variant to be sold here.

And GMNA has already re-engineered the engine compartment to take a smallblock.
:think: nomad?

Do you think a V8 Colorado could make dent in that market?
IF it was cheap. Cheap as in under $20k. But all of these under $20k light v8 cars that I want, are impossible to build.

Yep, RFQ's are out there for V8's.

What year is that due?

I imagine insurance would be cheaper on a V8 Colorado sport too since Colorado production is so large you can get cheaper parts (unlike niche cars) and production/repair seems simpler too.

:think: nomad?

No, it'll be a neat new Hummer.

But the point is though, this may open up some new possibilities.

No, it'll be a neat new Hummer.

But the point is though, this may open up some new possibilities.bummer it's only a hummer.:(

What year is that due?

I imagine insurance would be cheaper on a V8 Colorado sport too since Colorado production is so large you can get cheaper parts (unlike niche cars) and production/repair seems simpler too.
Well Evok and others have said that the Camaro RFQs aren't out so that puts 2009 out of the question for that so I would say it takes about 2 years to bring to market something that RFQs have gone out on, just my guess.

Well Evok and others have said that the Camaro RFQs aren't out so that puts 2009 out of the question for that so I would say it takes about 2 years to bring to market something that RFQs have gone out on, just my guess.

I'm guessing you should be able to get a hot rod V8 Colorado by '08...but that's just a guess though.