Z/28 camp.....SS camp.....GET IN HERE!!!!!!!

i posted this in "THE MOTHER OF ALL DEBATE THREADS" thread, but i wanted to make sure everyone can see this.


maybe we can try and agree on this.


i'm in the Z/28 camp and i'll explain why.......


i first got into Camaros because of the 1st gens. i used to write book reports on them in school. yes, i'm a Camaro geek.......


the car is 1st gen inspired and i think the model line up should be also. that being said, the SS should get "king of the street" honors, (don't even think about it James ) and the Z/28 should be the Z06 of the Camaro world.

the SS name is a common among almost all Chevy models. the Corvette and the Camaro have never been "common" Chevys. they are cars that have a character that lives outside of Chevy.

i do think the SS should be the top model in the line up (no James ).

that being said, i think the Z/28 should be the top performer of the line.


both cars can live together fine, but differentiate them this time by giving each badge a purpose again, just like the 1st gens.

run the Z/28 in the Speed World Challenge.

run the SS in any and all NHRA classes.


i don't want a repeat of the 4th gens.

i want to buy a Z/28 knowing the confidence to take it to any road course in the country is built into the car.

i want the SS guys to beat up on any and all competitors at drag strips across the country.

who cars which one gets the gigundo displacement LSwhateverisavailablein08. give these designations back their personality and all this bickering will end.


what do you guys think?


and don't turn this into an SS vs Z/28 debate.

no bragging rights.

just thinking about how GM can make both camps happy with the 5th gen.

Quit trying to be diplomatic, can't you see theres a war going on here??? ;)

:D

i know about the war, i'm on the front line!!!!!!!!;)

this is just to open up a more structured discussion.





consider it the Geneva Convention of the badge war......

i know about the war, i'm on the front line!!!!!!!!;)

this is just to open up a more structured discussion.





concsider it the Geneva Convention of the badge war......

I hear ya, and agree with your points completely. Some people are a little more cut throat unfortunetly :)

i know, but maybe this way we can call back some troops from the front line and get a different view of things from their eyes.

There was no SS from what, ~'74 to ~'95? :rolleyes: The Z28 lived on a lot longer. It shall remain the top car in my books :yes: ;).

... okay, okay! I won't continue that debate!! :p I agree with what you posted ... SS for the streets, Z28 for the track :thumb:. Now the only question is, which motor compares more to the old SS 396 and the Z/28 302? :think: An LS7 and an LS? (supercharged 6.2L) respectively? :shrug: Give the drag car the torquey, "balls to the wall" grunt of the 427, while the track car gets the smaller, yet happier high-revving supercharged 6.2L? ;) In that case, the SS's 427 ("LS7") could give up its dry-sump oil system to its brother, the Z28, which will need that on the 6.2L that's gonna be flying around corners :thumb:.

I agree 100% turbo :D .

David

SS is the big swingin dick packin all the ponies and is a monster at the drag strip.

Z28 is the little brother who packs pretty good power and is a road course terror.

/Thread

:D

glad to see you guys get it!

I agree....though I don't want to concede to the SS......I can not argue against those points....

SS=Z/28. Give them back their purpose, and they will be equal in my eyes.

This deserved its own thread?

Z/28= Track car with handling and power SS= Bad A** that will burn the tires the entire way down the track while others look forward and cry.

In a perfect world, we would have 4 engine choices in a Camaro lineup...a base V6, a LS4 V8 for an RS type model, a LS7 or something close to it with some big cubes for an SS, and a LSx for the Z28 which had TONS of power higher up in the RPM's and like was mentioned before, a Dry Sump Oiling system for the road course. This would more or less keep both camps, it would make both cars GOOD at the others forte but on its own turf, it would DOMINATE...SS=Dragstrip and the street...Z28=road course

ahhhhh...what a dream world that would be

I say.....
















SEND IN THE TANKS WITH THE Z28 BADGES ON THE SIDE AND BLOW UP THE SS's!


WAR ON!

I agree, let it be now as it began...

I'd like to see the SS as the "top" model with the biggest engine and most horsepower. Also with the added "extras" that people like.

However, that is only if the Z/28 can be more than just the mid-model.

Okay, the Z/28 doesn't have the most HP in my scehario. Give it enough to be a contender. And then make it only one way - only performance.. no weight adding luxuries. No Navi, No seat heaters, no power seats, automatic transmissions..but keep the things we really need (AC/PW/PL/ABS, etc.) and leave in the removable roof panel, because, dammit, I like it. The Z/28's focus would be "the best handling coupe. Period." It'd cost less than the SS, too. It would look "more Mean"

So under this scenario, why would you buy an SS?
-Faster in a straight line, still handles well
-Automatic Trans available
-Extra optional doodads
-Bigger Wheels than Z
-Different look. More bling than mean.

well that's what I'd do...

...Give the drag car the torquey, "balls to the wall" grunt of the 427, while the track car gets the smaller, yet happier high-revving supercharged 6.2L? ;) In that case, the SS's 427 ("LS7") could give up its dry-sump oil system to its brother, the Z28, which will need that on the 6.2L that's gonna be flying around corners :thumb:.
that makes no sense. the dry sump NA motor would be better suited for cornering. A supercharged Gen4 motor will have a higher center of gravity.

For the drag racers, it's way too easy to swap pullies :)

If you ask me, the Camaro SS should be done like the Cobalt SS (gasp!) :) There are 2 Cobalt SS coupes. The regular SS and the SS Supercharged with a more aggressive appearance package.

So I would have to pony up for a SS if I wanted power (than the lessers) with an automatic? That's just dumb. With today's modern automatics, you can't shift faster than they can, so what the hell is the point? I know some on here will say that it connects you more to the car, etc. . . however, living in a big city with crappy traffic and not feeling like getting a calf workout everyday to and from work, why should I have to pony up $4k more for the whole package, as opposed to the normal $1k or so for an auto?
You should probably move out of the city where you could actually enjoy life, and your cars. Why would you buy a 400hp car if all you can do is sit in traffic?

Remember, there is more than one advantage to having a manual.
-Better gas mileage (more gears) --- Of course this is slowly becoming not so true, as automatics are getting fitted with more
- More HP to the wheels
- Lighter
- Cheaper from factory
- Easier/cheaper to replace clutch than to rebuild an engine
- Bragging rights
- It's a security device (if you can't drive a stick, you can't steal it)
- Being able to roll start it

Pro's of automatic:
- Lazy *******s can just mash the gas and go
- shifts faster by a quarter of a second or so..(who cares specifics)
- you can't stall it on a hill because you have no real feeling in your left leg
- You can eat while driving, or talk on cellphone while driving, no problem
- Your wife/girlfriend/sister/friend can easily drive it when they neeeed to borrow your car.
- The shifter locks into place if the ignition isn't on, so your friends can't release the ebrake and put the car in neutral and roll it somewhere as a prank
- doesn't get in the way when macking on your ladies


So, you can see.. manuals have better advantages. The automatics are better for the flaming homos who care more about other **** than driving

So I would have to pony up for a SS if I wanted power (than the lessers) with an automatic? That's just dumb. With today's modern automatics, you can't shift faster than they can, so what the hell is the point? I know some on here will say that it connects you more to the car, etc. . . however, living in a big city with crappy traffic and not feeling like getting a calf workout everyday to and from work, why should I have to pony up $4k more for the whole package, as opposed to the normal $1k or so for an auto?


WERM was trying to make the same point i was.


we're not talking about $4K more for this one or that one. the whole point is trying to get the designations back to where they started.

Z/28- street going road course car

SS- street going drag car

Somebody's a little biased.;)

Auto V Manual
I'd rather have auto, I like to bracket race a lot and manuals usually don't last that long in elims. Fantastic drivers not included there.

Z/28 V SS

I am a Z fan due to there always being one. (Except maybe 67 or 68. :shrug: Probably wrong there.) I think the Z should be the dominant street car. SS= Super Sport. Let that be an all around race competitor.

Turbo- that is a great and well thought-out post, and I agree with you. But... z28 is Camaro and only Camaro- Id be surprised if that badge were given to a z06 caliber car- I think it will stay more pedestrian- But tell me again why there is so much argument about this? 3 months ago people would have been happy if it was called a "type R"- just as long as Camaro was back!

I can be happy with a performance SS or Z28- either way, Im good.

Manual vs Auto.. it depends what car it is. Sports car, then manual. Luxury car, then automatic.

SS needs to be top. SS is STILL a z28. It's always been the "BETTER" car. You can't just say screw history and change stuff around just because of an RPO number. Plus like I said before.. if they make the Corvette SS.. and it IS faster than the Z06.. then there's no way in bloody hell the Camaro Z28 could be faster than the SS.

You have to stick to the order and nametag. You can't throw them on any car.. it has to make sense for every model.

And as far as the street / strip. just no. The SS should have better options I guess.. Everybody loves handling as much as power, these days. A pure "drag" model wouldn't work these days. It'd have to handle well.

I want to see the z28 car be top, but it has nothing to do with the past of the car, although I am fully aware of the history regarding the nameplate. It just seems to me that in today's particular automotive climate, there are SSs for everything (because there are.) Not really a bad thing, but shouldn't the Camaro stand out from the Chevy brand as something different? I am not saying it should not turn its back to the Chevy brand name, because I don't feel that way at all. It just seems that both the Camaro and the Corvette have evolved their own personalities through their many years of exitstence, and althought both are still Chevy's, both have grown their own identities, and can stand on their own to some degree. The z28 is the Camaro's own independent badge, and is unique ownly to it. Much in the same regard as z06 is the Corvette. I would much rather see a top performance Camaro wear a z28 badge, than be washed away in a sea of SS cars.

Truth be told, I don't even think there should be an SS Camaro. We should see RS, z28, and zl1. This seems to be extremely unlikely however, so I would much prefer to see the z28 over the inevitable SS.

The base car has been available for every single model year. Therefore it should be top car.

Base
RS
SS

Then Z28 as a special edition car that falls between RS and SS in horsepower and interior content, but is more balanced and would be the fastest around the road courses.

But tell me again why there is so much argument about this?


LONG, LONG AGO...

IN A GALAXY FAR, FAR AWAY.....



think Mustang vs. Camaro. ok, now change the names to SS vs. Z/28 but keep all the aspects that make it a fight. that's it.

So I would have to pony up for a SS if I wanted power (than the lessers) with an automatic? That's just dumb. With today's modern automatics, you can't shift faster than they can, so what the hell is the point? I know some on here will say that it connects you more to the car, etc. . . however, living in a big city with crappy traffic and not feeling like getting a calf workout everyday to and from work, why should I have to pony up $4k more for the whole package, as opposed to the normal $1k or so for an auto?

It's not about which is "better." It's about the experience. If you are buying the "driver's" model, you'd definately want to be the most connected to the action.

It's the same reason some people buy speed boats and other people buy sailboats. Some people just want to go fast and others want the "full experience". Think about it like this: SS = Speedboat Z/28 = sailboat Z/28 with automatic = sailboat with no sail and an outboard.

PS: I live in Jersey, and I drive manuals as much as possible. :p

My driver door sticker says Z28. My fender says SS. Im happy either way.:bow:

At the end of the day, the manual is going to put more power down to the wheels, as well as get better gas mileage.

that makes no sense. the dry sump NA motor would be better suited for cornering. A supercharged Gen4 motor will have a higher center of gravity.

For the drag racers, it's way too easy to swap pullies :)
Very good point :thumb: ..... I didn't even think about that before! ;) You're right, supercharged would be unnecessary weight over the front ... put the blower on the straight line car :yes:.

So then are we saying an LS7-like engine in the Z28, and the 6.2L with a blower in the SS? :shrug:

So then are we saying an LS7-like engine in the Z28, and the 6.2L with a blower in the SS? :shrug:

That isn't a likely scenario. I think it would be awesome if GM did something like this though. It would be a solution that actually keeps in line with both of the nameplates.

This could go on for years and probabaly will.I'm a Z28 guy but build it and call it what you want,I'll take it..

go back and re-read the first post and awnser this question:


do you think GM can make both camps happy with their respective nameplates if they go the way i thought up?

i posted this in "THE MOTHER OF ALL DEBATE THREADS" thread, but i wanted to make sure everyone can see this.


maybe we can try and agree on this.


i'm in the Z/28 camp and i'll explain why.......


i first got into Camaros because of the 1st gens. i used to write book reports on them in school. yes, i'm a Camaro geek.......


the car is 1st gen inspired and i think the model line up should be also. that being said, the SS should get "king of the street" honors, (don't even think about it James ) and the Z/28 should be the Z06 of the Camaro world.

the SS name is a common among almost all Chevy models. the Corvette and the Camaro have never been "common" Chevys. they are cars that have a character that lives outside of Chevy.

i do think the SS should be the top model in the line up (no James ).

that being said, i think the Z/28 should be the top performer of the line.


both cars can live together fine, but differentiate them this time by giving each badge a purpose again, just like the 1st gens.

run the Z/28 in the Speed World Challenge.

run the SS in any and all NHRA classes.


i don't want a repeat of the 4th gens.

i want to buy a Z/28 knowing the confidence to take it to any road course in the country is built into the car.

i want the SS guys to beat up on any and all competitors at drag strips across the country.

who cars which one gets the gigundo displacement LSwhateverisavailablein08. give these designations back their personality and all this bickering will end.


what do you guys think?





DITTO!
SS=big power, big options
z/28=great power,handling
RS=budget friendly power
Sport coupe=girls/girlyman

Z/28- street going road course car

SS- street going drag car

Worst idea ever. Nobody except racers is going to by a street going drag car....in today's world you can't have one car all handling and the other all HP...they go together now.

So this 2 cars with different missions crap has to stop, NOW. One car will handle well and have lots of HP, the other will handle even better and have even more hp.

IROC-Z will be TOP Camaro!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dead horse. :D

IROC-Z will be TOP Camaro!!!!!!!!!!!!

Considering the International Race Of Champions probably won't be using the car, I wouldn't hold my breath ;)

My vote is for Berlinetta!

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=423304

http://mcgeesauto.chirpthird.com/grphx-pics/beat-dead-horse.gif

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=423304

http://mcgeesauto.chirpthird.com/grphx-pics/beat-dead-horse.gif


best smiley ever!!!!


and for the record, that's the thread that started this one.



and Chris, read the post by robluvcars right above yours. he gets where i'm going with this.

and for the record, that's the thread that started this one.



Yeah, I know. That's why I linked it. We get it. Too bad others don't. It begs the question, "Are we done yet?"

go back and re-read the first post and awnser this question:


do you think GM can make both camps happy with their respective nameplates if they go the way i thought up?

Yeah, I should have read the topic better, I thought this was yet another z28 vs SS thread. As much as it sucks to say it, in this day and age, I don't think there is any way to please both SS and z28 camps by building cars for two different purposes. Like Chris mentioned, in today's world, cars have to be jack of all trades, not one trick ponies.

IIRC the '97 SS's were officially "Z/28 SS"
Nobody complained when it came out. Everybody was excited to see it.

Put an SS trim package on top of the Z/28 and call it good... make both sides happy. Can we put it to bed already?? http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/schlafen/sleeping-smiley-009.gif

IIRC the '97 SS's were officially "Z/28 SS"




psssst....you're thinking of 1996.

At least they had the sense to keep the Z28 name on there somewhere at first. ;) Then they took it off and what we have now all started, a division between 2 groups about the same car. :think:

psssst....you're thinking of 1996.

You're 100% correct. My mind hasn't been working the best today :)