Cam Suggestions/Help

Well I'm planning on camming my 2005 GTO (LS2 motor). I'm just starting to learn about the specs and what not on them. I'm also trying to keep it around $900 cuz I still have to pay to have it installed. I understand you need the cam, springs, hardened pushrods... and?

My car is a daily driver, and I may have to pass emissions (not sure probably just a visual and compter hook up but they may do smog). I'm not looking for something too agressive, just a slight lope to it, and something that wont destroy my gas milage. Looking to get at least 30RWHP from it.

My goal is around 410RWHP... at least 400. I've dynoed 330RWHP all stock with 900 miles on the car. I'm also doing Stainless Works LT's/high flow cats, custom 2 1/2" Borla XR-1 cat back, K&N CAI, and a dyno tune... I expect around 380RWHP with those alone. If someone can help me out that would be great :)

the LS2 uses the same cams as the LS1 correct?

i would say the TR224 cam should yield what you are looking for. they average a 25-30hp gain on stock head equipped LS1s. and they still pass emissions.

the LS2 uses the same cams as the LS1 correct?

i would say the TR224 cam should yield what you are looking for. they average a 25-30hp gain on stock head equipped LS1s. and they still pass emissions.
Yep the LS2 will use a lot of the same parts as the LS1, including the cam. I'm looking to get a soild 30 out of it. It's getting a dyno tune so even going alittle bigger I should have no troubles with emissions.

The shop was orignaly wanting to do a G5X3 cam and said I would have no problmes with emissions with it... I shouldn't have to do smog, but just in case I would like to be able to pass. Though I didn't want to go with something that big.

I would also like to if possilbe have one that would give power thourghout the power band.

There is NO WAY the G5X3 has negative overlap, and would therefor pass emissions. The G5X2 has 232/240 on a 112 or 114 and isn't clean and the X3 is bigger.

First, read this:http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=327734
Overlap calculation is in there IIRC. Use that to determine if a cam will run clean or dirty.

Here are a few of questions you need to answer prior to deciding on a cam.
Is the goat an A4 or M6? What RPM range are you wanting to run in? Do you mind changing springs regularly? Does fuel milage matter? Do you want lope or to be a sleeper?

Now go onto LS1tech and LS2.com and do some searches for "cam." Research this, and check out the dyno threads. DO NOT base cam choice off a high number dyno, but rather off an average of what was made by several people. Also pay attention to power under the curve instead of peak numbers. Pay attention to supporting mods and where in the RPM range the power comes. With a heavy goat a great curve will do much more for you than any peak numbers.

Now, if you just want to be lazy, go get a TSP 225, TR224 or MTI C2 on a 114.

If you are on a budget, check in LS2 and LS1tech in the local forums. There are probably guys near you selling good cams and the other stuff. I just picked up a never ran cam for $80 and pushrods for $60. There are 3 other cams selling local to me for under $200. You can probably find a local guy that'll do installs for much less than a shop will charge also. If he is good, the locals will know.

Yeah I've been reading up. I see a lot of recommendations for the TR224, which is one I've been thinking of getting. A guy is selling the TR224 kit with everything for $400 (cam, springs, hardened pushrods, titanuim retainers and titanuim keepers. Has 4k miles on the kit... what you guys think?

Not bad, but I've seen better deals. What PRs and springs?

Not bad, but I've seen better deals. What PRs and springs?
Just the one that comes with the kit... Comp Cams 26918 Valve Springs and Thunder Racing Stock Length Pushrods.

I think I will probably just order me the same kit new from Thunder Racing for $800. My question is what is the difference between the 224/224 .563/.563 112 and the 224/224 .563/.563 114?

The kit comes with the TR224 cam, Comp Cams 26918 Valve Springs, Thunder Racing Stock Length Pushrods and Titanium Retainers for $730 plus shipping.

the lobe seperation will affect the idle characteristics of the cam.

lower the number, 112 compared to 114, the more lope you get at idle. this also has an adverse affect on emissions. although i think that cam is mild enough to pass emissions with either, given the proper tune. but don't quote me on that. the 112 could be enough to push you just a smidgen over the edge of "legal"

also the lower lobe separation affects where the power is in the powerband. i think lower creates better mid range, higher brings the power in the upper rpms.
one of the tech lines from the sponsors could confirm that. i say call up TR and see what they suggest for your goals.

Yep I was reading up on that. As you say I also believe the lower lobe means for a mid RPM power range while the higher is for a higher RPM power range. Would I have to worry about replacing the springs often with either of these cams? I also did email ED ( http://www.flowtechinduction.com/products.htm ) again, he said he could have a cam to me by Dec 6th if I get it started on by tomorrow.

My car is a daily driver, and I may have to pass emissions (not sure probably just a visual and compter hook up but they may do smog).

The LT's you're planning will be great for a cammed motor, but even with high flow cats they won't pass visual. Relocating cats is against emissions laws. Sorry. How strict of a state are you going to have this car in?

Abe

the TR224 won't go through springs. you should be fine.

The LT's you're planning will be great for a cammed motor, but even with high flow cats they won't pass visual. Relocating cats is against emissions laws. Sorry. How strict of a state are you going to have this car in?

Abe
I live in Az. I know plenty of guys with LT's and duals (some with no cats even), so I don't think they are that strict. I also just asked a few of them about a sniff test, I won't have to have one. So I can go as big of a cam as I want. Though as I said I'm looking for power pretty much through the whole RPM range.

One think I'm itching to know... may be a dumb question. Going with the TR224 or any other cam to say. Will I lose low end power? I mean like have less low RPM power than stock?

not unless you go pretty big....all the cams should have the same or slightly more power down low.

But some kick in hard at 2500 rpm and work to 6000 rpm and others kick in at3000 rpm and continue to 6800 rpm.

How high to you want to rev your engine and do you want to run gears to keep it in it's proper power band?

A big cam will generate more power, but it'll be at higher RPM. If your car is not set up to run at those RPM, a car with a smaller cam with a proper set up will beat you.

The TR224 is on XE lobes, the comp 224 w/~.580 lift is XER lobes. Its harder on springs but generates more power. The tighter LSA brings you into your power range quicker, but the wider LSA has a wider power band and generates less overlap and is more emmissions and A4 friendly. a TR 224 on a 112 is not clean. The 114 is barely clean and requires a good tune to be so.

Alrighty... thinking of going with the G2 G2. Would I have to change springs often on the cam? I'm looking to get a nice power curve... so I would want to go with the 112? If you "clean" as emissions I don't have to worry about that. The shop that is doing it all has a guru tuner there, I hear he is one of the best in the state and does amazing work.

Really if I would get 30+RWHP out of the TR224 I would go with that, if not it's the G2 G2.

The G2 has a more agressive profile so you will use springs up quicker. How often depends on how you drive it and the springs you use.
I hope you have a line on a used one. The $1295 for the kit on LG's website is outrageous. TSP has kits from $599. Their 224R or 225 have similar specs. You should also check out Futral. Their cams are cam motion grinds and make good power. The F4 is closest to the G2.

For LSA, a tighter lobe will start you into your paower sooner, but you'll stay in it for a shorter time. The wider LSA will start a couple hunder RPM later but you'll hold it longer. Talk to whoever's cam you decide to run and they'll help you decide.

Yes, clean is emissions. I don't have to worry about that here...yet. No tailpipe checks, but they do still have the roadside monitoring stations.

I wasen't going to go with the G2 G2 kit... too much money. I was gonna go with these parts... what do you think?

G2 G2 Custom Cam (224/224 580/580 114) (http://www.lmperformance.com/4941/43.html)
Comp Cams Hi-Tech Chrome Moly Pushrods 5/16 7.400 (http://www.lmperformance.com/6296/43.html)
Comp Cams LS1 Titanium Retainers For 26915 & 26918 SPRINGS (http://www.lmperformance.com/6398/43.html)

Though if I went with the G2 G2 kit I could get the kit and have it installed for $1600...

Would you say the 114 would give me a better power curve than the 112?

the lobe seperation will affect the idle characteristics of the cam... also the lower lobe separation affects where the power is in the powerband. i think lower creates better mid range, higher brings the power in the upper rpms.
one of the tech lines from the sponsors could confirm that. i say call up TR and see what they suggest for your goals.

This is the trend. Peak horsepower will be near the same give or take only a few, but with an increasingly narrower lobe seperation angle you do get more overlap and more torque. The only reason that big cams stay around 112 is to promote better idle quality. I'd like to see more LS1 cams ground on narrower LSAs, but then again, I bought a 114 lobe center line cam.

My opinion is less duration and tigher lobes is where it's at for street usage.

Ben T.

No, just stretch it out a little, but you'll hit it later. Just depends on what you want. Like I said, talk to whoever you get your cam about that. I know futral does theirs ground advanced. That makes a difference too.

By my calculations thats over $800 and you still need some springs.

I'd have to agree with Ben. There are guys running some custom ground 108 & 110 LSA with short duration cams. Totally streetable, great curve, power like a much larger cam all in by 6k rpm, and they're clean!!! If you go this route it requires the research I mentioned before. That or you could just clone someone's specs. If you do go custom, definately go cam motion.

For more info on this:http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=328246&page=1&pp=20&highlight=tight+lsa

The Aussies have been running short duration, tight LSA cams for a while.

definately go cam motion.




Last I heard, the comp lobes had greater .100" duration for any spec at .050" than Cam Motion did. Meaning their lobes should make more power for any given duration at .050" lift. They also spec'd a turbo car for a friend and got his suggested grind way off.

Ben T.

By my calculations thats over $800 and you still need some springs.
Ooops yeah so like $1015 shipped with Comp Cams 26918 springs. Still better than $1200+.

What do you mean by cam motion?

Hmm, most folks seem to be talking about the cam. Are you certain you will have to pass emissions. Most states have 5 years of new car exemption. So you may have to pass emissions but not til 2010. So you can run what you want until then.

Now states do vary so go online and check your state laws.

Perry

Hmm, most folks seem to be talking about the cam. Are you certain you will have to pass emissions. Most states have 5 years of new car exemption. So you may have to pass emissions but not til 2010. So you can run what you want until then.

Now states do vary so go online and check your state laws.

Perry
From what I know OBII cars and up don't have to have a sniff test. All the 97+ Camaros, etc don't have a sniff test.

That is very state dependent.

In Republik of Kalifornia OBDII cars have a sniff test, but cars newer that 5 years old have no test.

In Nevada (LV and Reno) OBDII cars have a sniff test, incl new cars.

In Az OBDII cars have a ALDL test and need to set no codes and have all the monitors completing (well all but one). But again new cars less than 5 yrs old are exempt from testing.

Each state is different.

Perry

BTW, my LS2 402 passed in AZ easily on the ALDL test. And that was with a cam much larger than being discussed here.

That is very state dependent.

In Republik of Kalifornia OBDII cars have a sniff test, but cars newer that 5 years old have no test.

In Nevada (LV and Reno) OBDII cars have a sniff test, incl new cars.

In Az OBDII cars have a ALDL test and need to set no codes and have all the monitors completing (well all but one). But again new cars less than 5 yrs old are exempt from testing.

Each state is different.

Perry

BTW, my LS2 402 passed in AZ easily on the ALDL test. And that was with a cam much larger than being discussed here.
Yep just have a computer hook up. From what the guys were saying they don't even do that to their 2000+ cars (lazy I guess). There should be no sinff test even after 5 years from what they are saying.

As far as it goes it seems I will have to get a bigger cam. As Todd was saying the LS2 has a pretty decent cam in it already. Going to a TR224 would only gain me around 15RWHP. Looks like I'll just have to stop by tomorrow to talk to him and see what he suggests to reach my goals.

IF you're going bigger....f13

IF you're going bigger....f13
I think I may just go with the shops custom cam package. I can get it for $950 and he said it would put me 395-405RWHP. I can choose whatever cam I want, though since they were selling 2 of each of their cam packages at that price they thought they would offer it to me. I could have got the specs, but even if I did I had to promise not to tell anyone. I'm gonna go talk to them in an hour or so and see what we can come up with.

I would buy no cam with out knowing specs.

I would buy no cam with out knowing specs.
Well ended up going with Mike's cam. Pretty big cam, idles very nice though (got to hear a LS1 with it). He said there wouldn't be any low end power loss, and will pull 1800 to about 7000. It will give me my 30RWHP, maybe alittle bit more. I'm not allowed to give out the specs on it. I know even by making a custom cam just like it they wouldn't get the same performance out of it, but I promised I wouldn't tell so I wont. Got the kit for $900 out the door :)

We are also going with some other stuff. As said the SW LT's/cats, custom Borla cat back, K&N CAI, dyno tune BMR swaybars, B&M tranny cooler and a Yank SS 3600 converter.

I'll also be going with some KDW-2's all around. Though if I can get some Nittor DR's on the back I will get those on the rear. If not I'll have to find a set of 17" stock GTO rims and put some DR's on them.