do you believe there will be a 5th generation camaro?

simple question

what do ya'll think, especially after all the stuff that has happened in the last week or so.

no discussion necessary, no posting of proof one way or another, just a simple YES or NO will do.

I want official news by NAIAS 2006 or a car on the street in summer 2007

I definitely believe there will be one.. the only thing is the timing.. I know GM has many products in the pipeline and the most important one is the full size trucks.. so if that won't be out for at least 1 year then these special projects will be out in some time.

I'm positive The Camaro will return and I'm sure that it will be what we hope it should be... (I Have Faith)

I want official news by NAIAS 2006 or a car on the street in summer 2007

I bet thats pretty close

no................................

Anyone who votes "no" shouldn't even be here. ;)

Yes, GM will reintroduce the new Camaro soon. To do otherwise would be nuts. Bottom line - people want modern day muscle cars. If GM is to stave off eventual insolvency and loss of market share (not to mention respect) then a performance vehicle (to compete ith Ford and Daimler-Chrysler) will need to be introduced w/in the next 24 mos. If they wait much longer than that, then the window of opportunity that the new "muscle car" trend offers will probably start to close. Also, I think that it will have to be an established brand (i.e. Camaro) b/c to "introduce" it by any other name would be too risky. The current car buying environment presents an excellent opportunity for GM to capitalize on, question is whether they will take heed of it or ignore it entirely. ;)

Yes, and I also think Z28x is right on target. I hope we get a Chevelle too! We got the best damn engines going, now we just need something to put them in!

Sure there'll be a new Camaro. Sometime after 2010.

But hey, the GTO took 30 years to make it back.

El Camino LS6

Sure there'll be a new Camaro. Sometime after 2010.

But hey, the GTO took 30 years to make it back.


x2

I'm not expecting the Camaro back anytime soon. I'm starting to not care anymore. Not even the new retro Mustang. I think the 99-04 look way better. I sat in the new one at the AutoShow and was put off by the rental car looking interior.
I wouldn't mind the GTO, but it needs a Navigation and head up display. I use my portable navigation pretty often and find it VERY useful. I actually want an Envoy now. Go up to the snow, put stuff in the back, go biking, go on vacation and have room. Hmm, I think I'm getting old...lol :o

you should edit the pole to "i don't care/its gotta be insanely good looking to get me back in the mood"

Yes, but who cares. Too late to the party! :cry:

What's with all of these "who cares if the Camaro ever comes back" posts? If you honestly don't care, why are you here? You shouldn't be. :confused:

Why do I believe the Chevrolet SS concept was a vision of the next Camaro? From the cryptic clues given about the Zeta, perhaps that car was too big, too heavy to be a Camaro.

A real Camaro would be a true Mustang rival, not something that's bloated.

Just my opinion... still attempting to solve the jigsaw puzzle. :D

Yes, GM will reintroduce the new Camaro soon. To do otherwise would be nuts. Bottom line - people want modern day muscle cars. If GM is to stave off eventual insolvency and loss of market share (not to mention respect) then a performance vehicle (to compete ith Ford and Daimler-Chrysler) will need to be introduced w/in the next 24 mos. If they wait much longer than that, then the window of opportunity that the new "muscle car" trend offers will probably start to close. Also, I think that it will have to be an established brand (i.e. Camaro) b/c to "introduce" it by any other name would be too risky. The current car buying environment presents an excellent opportunity for GM to capitalize on, question is whether they will take heed of it or ignore it entirely. ;)

1. The coupe market is no where near important enough to determine a car company's solvency.

2. The public isn't buying "muscle" cars in the quanity you believe. The Mustang is #9 and the 300 is #10 best selling automobiles. The MINORITY of both models are the top performance versions.

3. Any potential Camaro WON'T be out "soon". It's going to take a not insubstantial miracle for it to return before the fall of 2007.

I'm not razing you, so don't take it that way. It's just the reality of the car market and any potential new Camaro. Sure, it will be back. But GM's survival hardly depends on a car that didn't sell very well for the last 10 years it was on the market.

I'm not razing you, so don't take it that way. It's just the reality of the car market and any potential new Camaro. Sure, it will be back. But GM's survival hardly depends on a car that didn't sell very well for the last 10 years it was on the market.

I don't think that GM's survival hinges on a Camaro, but if they don't build one I don't think they will survive, and the Camaro saga will be a classic illustration of the mismanagment that led them to the bottom.

I don't think that GM's survival hinges on a Camaro, but if they don't build one I don't think they will survive, and the Camaro saga will be a classic illustration of the mismanagment that led them to the bottom.

You nailed it. And that's why I continuously say that if Camaro doesn't happen, it means GM is folding.

GM is aware there's a gapping hole in their product line where Mustang is being marketed. Chevy dealers have pressed that point at every turn. GM's own studies have beared it out. GM has studied the 4th gen's short commings & knows where it went wrong. By every account I've heard, everyone at GM is aware of the importance of filling that gap, & is well in route to do just that.

But if GM decides against reentering that market, it means that they are so bad off that they have to ignore dealer requests & their own studies, and the opinion of plenty of people within the company including 2 Chevrolet general managers in a row, Chevrolet's marketing department, and even Bob Lutz (despite his tendancy towards renaming everything, he's VERY aware of the power & history of the Camaro name).

A Mustang competitor apparently is the top car priority at Chevrolet right now. By most all accounts if it doesn't happen (or is substantially delayed), that's a very good indication of GM's health.

What's with all of these "who cares if the Camaro ever comes back" posts? If you honestly don't care, why are you here? You shouldn't be. :confused:
this forum isn't JUST 5th gen related. Note the title 5th gen AND FUTURE VEHICLE.

To be totally honest, GM would have to do alot right now for me to consider getting a new GM product. Between the incredibly appealing GT500, and an absolute lack of evidence of a RWD coupe at GM. All this coming from someone who has never owned a 4 wheeled vehicle other than an F Body.

NO!! :no: :blah:

Unless GM gets their collective heads out of their @SS and actually let us OFFICIALY know something is in the works and can produce some kind evidence to back it up, not a chance. It seems like the whole company is run by a bunch of willy nilly people that can’t make up their minds on what to do, and retarded ones at that. It’s like they see saw back and forth from one bad decision to another constantly. :confused:

I’ve stopped wondering if it will ever get produced, the only way I going to believe that the 5th gen is being made is if I get run over by it.

It seems to me that we are all making a fuss over a phantom car.

Also with regards to all the negative threads on GM, the internet rumors, canceling of platforms and other stuff. The people that seem to have an inside track on stuff, tell us on one hand to not believe all the bad news and only take official GM propaganda as the gospel truth. But on the other hand encourage us to believe almost everything we hear about the “Possible upcoming 5th Gen”. :tired: Appears to be a Double standard to me. :think:

this forum isn't JUST 5th gen related. Note the title 5th gen AND FUTURE VEHICLE.


True. But my point was, you must have some interest in the Camaro, and its future, if you're on this website. All the "who cares about a future Camaro" is downright silly...if you reaaaally don't care, then I would assume you never really cared for the car to begin with...maybe you just bought it because it was the quickest car for the best price (not a bad reason mind you, but it isn't enough for me to label anyone a true "Camaro enthusiast.")

Remember, you're posting on a GM-oriented board with, what we are told, some influential people at GM reading. Heck, Red Planet bolted because of stuff like this. "Who cares about the Camaro" on CamaroZ28.com doesn't really help matters. :rolleyes:

True. But my point was, you must have some interest in the Camaro, and its future, if you're on this website. All the "who cares about a future Camaro" is downright silly...if you reaaaally don't care, then I would assume you never really cared for the car to begin with...maybe you just bought it because it was the quickest car for the best price (not a bad reason mind you, but it isn't enough for me to label anyone a true "Camaro enthusiast.")

Remember, you're posting on a GM-oriented board with, what we are told, some influential people at GM reading. Heck, Red Planet bolted because of stuff like this. "Who cares about the Camaro" on CamaroZ28.com doesn't really help matters. :rolleyes:

I wouldn't go as far as to say I never cared to begin with. The ONLY 4 wheeled vehicles I have EVER owned have been F Bodies. My point is, Ford has an almost 500 hp car coming to market. Gm has "Keep the Faith". I truly don't think I can continue to wait, and have blind faith for something that may or may not exist. I need a real vehicle. Something I can drive every day on my 150 mile round trip drive. Just my little opinion.

I wouldn't go as far as to say I never cared to begin with. The ONLY 4 wheeled vehicles I have EVER owned have been F Bodies. My point is, Ford has an almost 500 hp car coming to market. Gm has "Keep the Faith". I truly don't think I can continue to wait, and have blind faith for something that may or may not exist. I need a real vehicle. Something I can drive every day on my 150 mile round trip drive. Just my little opinion.


Actually... GM has a 400hp 4 seat coupe, a 400hp 2 seat coupe and vert on the market today , and has a 500hp 2 seat coupe coming by the end of the year....

Actually... GM has a 400hp 4 seat coupe, a 400hp 2 seat coupe and vert on the market today , and has a 500hp 2 seat coupe coming by the end of the year....
and ford is going to outsell all 3 of those combined with just v6 mustangs :rolleyes:

Actually... GM has a 400hp 4 seat coupe, a 400hp 2 seat coupe and vert on the market today , and has a 500hp 2 seat coupe coming by the end of the year....


And I can't afford either one of them :rolleyes:

I know a 5th gen will get here, just don't know how ****ing long it will take.

and ford is going to outsell all 3 of those combined with just v6 mustangs :rolleyes:


So what? V6 Mustangs are not what GTO or Corvette are about anyway.

Again, tally up Mach I and Cobra sales only, and see how they match up.

And I can't afford either one of them :rolleyes:



If that is true, then you shouldn't be overly excited about the new GT500 Mustang either...

I see your point, you want a Muistang GT competitor, but with all the commotion (deservedly so) over the new Cobra pictures, I assume everyone is referring to the new Cobra when they mention these things, and I still assume Jake was in his post since he references an "almost 500hp Mustang".

I wouldn't go as far as to say I never cared to begin with. The ONLY 4 wheeled vehicles I have EVER owned have been F Bodies. My point is, Ford has an almost 500 hp car coming to market. Gm has "Keep the Faith". I truly don't think I can continue to wait, and have blind faith for something that may or may not exist. I need a real vehicle. Something I can drive every day on my 150 mile round trip drive. Just my little opinion.
Funny how 450+ hp quickly turns into almost 500 hp. BTW, GM already has a 500 hp car coming to market. It's called the Corvette Z06, maybe you've heard of it? I know Ford certainly has.

Look, the point is this... this website is CamaroZ28.com and the forums are CamaroSS.com. It is not GMPerformance.com, or RWDV8AmericanPerformance.com, this is a CAMARO website. This has always been the 5th generation forum. When it looked bleek that Camaro would never return, it became the Future vehicles forum, but later 5th generation was added after complaints by members and the faintest of rumors that Camaro may someday return.

The big reason RedPlanet doesn't post here is all the negative and childish BS that is posted around here. Reality time kiddies, there are forces within GM that want Camaro to return just as bad as we do. They however have to get it past the beancounters first and with GM's currenty financial situation, that isn't going to be easy, and based on GM's history of a snail's pace in getting product to market, it won't be soon.

Am I pissed there is no Camaro in GM's current line-up? Hell ya I'm pissed, however I'm also old enough and mature enough to know that bitching about it like some spoiled teenager isn't going to help get the job done any quicker. If this forum and website is going to become a champion at influencing GM to speed up the return of our beloved Camaro, we need to band together to support its return, and not bitch and complain about every little piece of bogus news that comes out. We need to not chastize the insiders who bring us tidbits of information, but instead take each bit of information and mold it into a possible positive outcome. I'm sure there are GM bashing websites out there if all people really want to do is blast GM for everything they do. Heck start at the Ford websites, about all they really do is talk about how Camaro is no longer in production. (Seriously, its quite sad IMO, as they have a pretty awesome ponycar to be proud of.)

Jake, please don't take this as being completely addressed at you. It's just that I'm fed up, and all this anti-Camaro bs is getting stale.

If folks really don't care about Camaro returning, if they hate GM and all they want to do is bitch and complain, they should leave. Complaining is ok, but everyone needs to be positive at some point.

Oh, yeah, and btw... Camaro is going to return. ;)

And for the one trillionth time... have faith. :)

P.S. FWIW No real Camaro enthusiast really wanted a Zeta Camaro anyway. We were just seduced into the idea because it sounded like GM could bring it to market faster than anything else out there. Thank goodness they couldn't make Zeta work.

5th gen forums has been my home here since 2001 (under a different name). So i'd like to think that i care a great deal about the future of the "Camaro". But i see no problem with people venting their frustration. Will screaming "GM betreyed me...i'll buy Ford" bring the camaro to market sooner? Doubt it. But the people within GM on this board NEED to see the toll, the damage, the faithlessness, and the frustration this long "hiatus" is taking on the the enthusiasts. The whole secrecy and being kept in the dark sure doesn't help either. This may not bring camaro back to market sooner but nither will sitting back and "keeping the faith".

GM has to know that they've not only dropped the ball, but they dropped it right into Ford's hands. And let's be honest, it's not exactly easy to "keep the faith" given the current situation GM is in and Ford sure as hell isn't making it any easier with the current and planned mustang lineup (which is begining to appeal to a good number of camaro guys/gals).

Personally, this whole experience left me feeling numb. To the point where i put more faith in a competitors product than the 5th gen. To the point where i have no faith in there being a camaro before 2010 and my next new vehicle purchase come 2008 consists of a possible Ford or import. The faith is still there, but it's no where near as strong as it once was. And GM's to blame for that, and i personally won't refrain from reminding them of that on this forum.

Btw: I'm not justifying some of the more childish anti-GM and anti-camro post. I just think complaining and venting is perfectly fine (and perhaps needed too) within reason.

What's with all of these "who cares if the Camaro ever comes back" posts? If you honestly don't care, why are you here? You shouldn't be. :confused:

I'm tired of seeing this bull****. You can't tell people that they shouldn't be posting here. They have just the same right as you *******. I sold my damn Camaro, are you gonna tell me to take a hike from the board? Some people are just so pissed off with GM that they don't give a **** what they do anymore. That still gives you no right to tell them to **** off. I don't care about the Camaro at the moment because I'm tired of waiting and I'm seeing many other new cars being brought out that have my attention. I posted here ever since I bought my Camaro, made some good friends, and enjoy the environment. I still love talking about F-Bodies and even give advice when needed. I love all the different forums and post quite frequently in a good bit of them. To tell me I shouldn't be here because I don't care what GM is doing right now or because I don't own an F-Body anymore is just ****ing stupid. Anyone else who says the same stuff can **** off and get over it.

[/rant] Sorry, but I'm ****ing tired of reading that. Stop bitching.

Yes, but who cares. Too late to the party! :cry:
Better late than never man! I bet most here do care!

........

Calm down....take a deep breath....listen, my intent was and is never to tell anyone what they can and can't post. I just find it odd that people have nothing better to do than rant about how they care nothing for the Camaro on a Camaro message board. You want to talk about annoying? That's annoying.

I'm just as impatient as the next guy around here. I'm just as lost as you are about why GM does things the way they do. I'm not happy with GM dragging their feet either. But there's one of two ways we can do things. Pi$$ and moan and use obscenities (***'ed out or not :rolleyes: ) and tell GM we don't care about a future Camaro (real smart, right? That'll get the car back quickly! :rolleyes: ) Or we can simply say, like I have, "See GM. There is the new Mustang, and the new Mustang Cobra. These are your targets for the next Camaro. Get it done, get it done right, and in the meantime yeah I might consider the Mustang but I would have no problems switching back to a worthy Camaro." The way people talk around here, if I were in charge of making the decisions about Camaro, would I be charged up to get a new Camaro out? Why would I? The enthusiasts on the damn car's own message board are saying they don't care and that I've already lost them for good.

Abrasiveness almost never gets anything accomplished, and is never good for anything. Just ask the UAW after their Marines/parking fiasco. ;)

hey now, please keep this back on topic (with a simple YES or NO)

i really wouldn't like to have this particular thread locked, and believe me, JasonD has locked / made disappear many of my threads in the past, so he DEFINANTLY knows how to and will do it if he feels necessary.

so back on topic now shall we.

Do you believe there will be a 5th generation camaro?

a simple YES or NO will suffice.

I already voted....a resounding YES.

If it doesn't happen, then GM must've gone out of business....or bought by Toyota. :eek: :barf:

i wonder if it would be economical to start producing vehicles overseas and import them.

that way they don't have to deal with the UAW.

they've already done it with the GTO, and that daewoo car they put a chevy nameplate on ... maybe we'll have a true imported camaro? :)

I think there likely will be a F5 - because nobody is quite that stupid..........but I hope there isn't.

Lately I have been looking at other makes and liking them for the first time ever.......I could say that GM has managed to drive me away.......but I'm not sure.......

I think there likely will be a F5 - because nobody is quite that stupid..........but I hope there isn't.

Lately I have been looking at other makes and liking them for the first time ever.......I could say that GM has managed to drive me away.......but I'm not sure.......
you mean like the mustang?

go ahead, you can say it :)

El Camino LS6
Yes me too! When I said Chevelle I meant in all its former glory. 2dr., 4dr, a wagon(Magnum fighter), and definately an El Camino.They have it down under why not here? Why not for some ppl the idea of a wagon can be cool. DCx just followed The Generals lead with the Nomad concept( Magnum), they(GM) felt they couldn't take the risk ,I guess due to the GM attack vultures.They are going to have to take more risks, and put out some killer stuff, it just needs to be quicker. PPl need something more practical, but unlike the last nomad concept it needs a V8 at least optional. And now we can have DoD. Not that the LSx engines get bad mileage this will only help convince the wives to go for the V8. I liked the 53 Vette looking Nomad with the LS1. The roof made it to production on the Envoy XUV. The second one without the V8 looked more like a 69 Camaro, and was pretty nice , but no V8=no good. IMHO the Crossfire in the front reminds alot of the last Nomad Concept. The GM powertrain is the best bar none to me, we need to get it out there under more hoods. Not everyone needs a 2+2 coupe , they got kids. So come on guys get them out there!

Do you believe there will be a 5th generation camaro?

a simple YES or NO will suffice.

YES.

Yes I believe there will be one in the not so distant future....but my only fear is, that when that ship comes in, there won't be anyone at the dock waiting for it.... :(
Talk about some bad buisness decisions..."O what a tangled web they weaved..."

I will be back eventually. Maybe sooner, maybe later, but I think it'll be back.

It'll be back...

When??? :confused: Good question! :p

if there is a 5th gen it will be ugly and gay but fast

Better late than never man! I bet most here do care!

It isn't like GM is ever on time to the party. :rolleyes:
For instance the number one example of this was the Silverado SS.
The Silverado SS came to the market 5 years after the Lightning, and was still inferior? "Better Late?" They should have stayed home :mad:

I understand the frustration here. But, do not assume that GM does not have the ability to get out all of the toys you have been discussing, and to get them out on time. There have been answers to everything that the competition could dream up. And a load of toys the competition could never dream of that would put their hardware on the trailer. GM engineering has the talent, the hardware and sure as heck has the know-how. But the final approval for any of these nasty creations comes from folks with a completely different mindset. Emphasis on different. And there friends is where the "flow restriction" is located.

I have NO DOUBT they can get the physical product done and to market quickly, it's the other baggage and legalities, red-tape and share holders etc that are the problem.

Actually... GM has a 400hp 4 seat coupe, a 400hp 2 seat coupe and vert on the market today , and has a 500hp 2 seat coupe coming by the end of the year....

Fair, they have some interesting vehicles. But, a GTO is not an F Body, and to be totally honest it does not compare to the GT500. 17" wheels/tires vs 19" wheels/tires, 400 hp vs 450+, etc. I really don't want one. For you I'm sure it is a great car.

Vette's really don't interest me, and a Z06 is a tad bit more than 40K. You can't even get into a base C6 for 40K.

[/QUOTE]Funny how 450+ hp quickly turns into almost 500 hp. BTW, GM already has a 500 hp car coming to market. It's called the Corvette Z06, maybe you've heard of it? I know Ford certainly has.

Look, the point is this... this website is CamaroZ28.com and the forums are CamaroSS.com. It is not GMPerformance.com, or RWDV8AmericanPerformance.com, this is a CAMARO website. This has always been the 5th generation forum. When it looked bleek that Camaro would never return, it became the Future vehicles forum, but later 5th generation was added after complaints by members and the faintest of rumors that Camaro may someday return.

The big reason RedPlanet doesn't post here is all the negative and childish BS that is posted around here. Reality time kiddies, there are forces within GM that want Camaro to return just as bad as we do. They however have to get it past the beancounters first and with GM's currenty financial situation, that isn't going to be easy, and based on GM's history of a snail's pace in getting product to market, it won't be soon.

Am I pissed there is no Camaro in GM's current line-up? Hell ya I'm pissed, however I'm also old enough and mature enough to know that bitching about it like some spoiled teenager isn't going to help get the job done any quicker. If this forum and website is going to become a champion at influencing GM to speed up the return of our beloved Camaro, we need to band together to support its return, and not bitch and complain about every little piece of bogus news that comes out. We need to not chastize the insiders who bring us tidbits of information, but instead take each bit of information and mold it into a possible positive outcome. I'm sure there are GM bashing websites out there if all people really want to do is blast GM for everything they do. Heck start at the Ford websites, about all they really do is talk about how Camaro is no longer in production. (Seriously, its quite sad IMO, as they have a pretty awesome ponycar to be proud of.)

Jake, please don't take this as being completely addressed at you. It's just that I'm fed up, and all this anti-Camaro bs is getting stale.

If folks really don't care about Camaro returning, if they hate GM and all they want to do is bitch and complain, they should leave. Complaining is ok, but everyone needs to be positive at some point.

Oh, yeah, and btw... Camaro is going to return.

And for the one trillionth time... have faith.

P.S. FWIW No real Camaro enthusiast really wanted a Zeta Camaro anyway. We were just seduced into the idea because it sounded like GM could bring it to market faster than anything else out there. Thank goodness they couldn't make Zeta work.[/QUOTE]

I understand your point about the negativity. I can assure you, I want a 5th gen just as much as anyone. The ONLY vehicles I have ever owned have been F Bodies. Why would I want to change now?

All I am saying is this. One side has a car currently on the market. The other side has people, who may or may not have relaible sources saying "Keep the faith".

Oh, and I take NOTHING personal online. ;)

Will there be another Camaro ever? In my opinion, for SURE. The Camaro has too much GM heritage in it, and still sparks emotion in the marketplace, and always will. It may not be soon, but it will happen.

Dan

Fair, they have some interesting vehicles. But, a GTO is not an F Body, and to be totally honest it does not compare to the GT500. 17" wheels/tires vs 19" wheels/tires, 400 hp vs 450+, etc. I really don't want one. For you I'm sure it is a great car.

Vette's really don't interest me, and a Z06 is a tad bit more than 40K. You can't even get into a base C6 for 40K.

Funny how 450+ hp quickly turns into almost 500 hp. BTW, GM already has a 500 hp car coming to market. It's called the Corvette Z06, maybe you've heard of it? I know Ford certainly has.

Look, the point is this... this website is CamaroZ28.com and the forums are CamaroSS.com. It is not GMPerformance.com, or RWDV8AmericanPerformance.com, this is a CAMARO website. This has always been the 5th generation forum. When it looked bleek that Camaro would never return, it became the Future vehicles forum, but later 5th generation was added after complaints by members and the faintest of rumors that Camaro may someday return.

The big reason RedPlanet doesn't post here is all the negative and childish BS that is posted around here. Reality time kiddies, there are forces within GM that want Camaro to return just as bad as we do. They however have to get it past the beancounters first and with GM's currenty financial situation, that isn't going to be easy, and based on GM's history of a snail's pace in getting product to market, it won't be soon.

Am I pissed there is no Camaro in GM's current line-up? Hell ya I'm pissed, however I'm also old enough and mature enough to know that bitching about it like some spoiled teenager isn't going to help get the job done any quicker. If this forum and website is going to become a champion at influencing GM to speed up the return of our beloved Camaro, we need to band together to support its return, and not bitch and complain about every little piece of bogus news that comes out. We need to not chastize the insiders who bring us tidbits of information, but instead take each bit of information and mold it into a possible positive outcome. I'm sure there are GM bashing websites out there if all people really want to do is blast GM for everything they do. Heck start at the Ford websites, about all they really do is talk about how Camaro is no longer in production. (Seriously, its quite sad IMO, as they have a pretty awesome ponycar to be proud of.)

Jake, please don't take this as being completely addressed at you. It's just that I'm fed up, and all this anti-Camaro bs is getting stale.

If folks really don't care about Camaro returning, if they hate GM and all they want to do is bitch and complain, they should leave. Complaining is ok, but everyone needs to be positive at some point.

Oh, yeah, and btw... Camaro is going to return.

And for the one trillionth time... have faith.

P.S. FWIW No real Camaro enthusiast really wanted a Zeta Camaro anyway. We were just seduced into the idea because it sounded like GM could bring it to market faster than anything else out there. Thank goodness they couldn't make Zeta work.[/QUOTE]

I understand your point about the negativity. I can assure you, I want a 5th gen just as much as anyone. The ONLY vehicles I have ever owned have been F Bodies. Why would I want to change now?

All I am saying is this. One side has a car currently on the market. The other side has people, who may or may not have relaible sources saying "Keep the faith".

Oh, and I take NOTHING personal online. ;)[/QUOTE]

I disagree, although the bitching does get out of hand. It does let GM and Chevrolet know that there are people that are waiting for it to return.

I don't know it hurts.. :think:

Yes.

But it better be damn nice, 'cause by then, a used G35 Sport Coupe rollin' some 19s will be looking VERY nice to me. :)

:p

yes, but it will be a long time away, hopefully GM won't tank out by then

I understand the frustration here. But, do not assume that GM does not have the ability to get out all of the toys you have been discussing, and to get them out on time. There have been answers to everything that the competition could dream up. And a load of toys the competition could never dream of that would put their hardware on the trailer. GM engineering has the talent, the hardware and sure as heck has the know-how. But the final approval for any of these nasty creations comes from folks with a completely different mindset. Emphasis on different. And there friends is where the "flow restriction" is located.

Well put. :bow:

Look. Bottom line, is you're NOT getting a Camaro for at least 5 years. You can bank on that. 2010, if you're lucky.

You got about 20 months left to buy the only AFFORDABLE V8 RWD coupe GM makes. GTO is gone after '06. Then it gets real ugly. You'll be looking at 4+ years of NO V8 RWD performance for under $45K from GM.

Look. Bottom line, is you're NOT getting a Camaro for at least 5 years. You can bank on that. 2010, if you're lucky.

You got about 20 months left to buy the only AFFORDABLE V8 RWD coupe GM makes. GTO is gone after '06. Then it gets real ugly. You'll be looking at 4+ years of NO V8 RWD performance for under $45K from GM.

I'm sorry, where were you getting your information again?

I'm sorry, where were you getting your information again?


Here.

What part is news to you?

GTO is confirmed dead for N. America after 2006 when it supposed to migrate to the now extinct zeta chassis for the '07 model.

No Camaro till 2010. If they committed TODAY to make a chassis or hack up an existing chassis to mold a Camaro(which they havn't), you wouldn't get it till 2010. That's just the way things are in GM-land.

So unless you know of some other high performane rwd V8 chassis + car in the pipeline, after '06 the Vette and Caddy are it. Maybe you got $45K to drop on GM performance. I don't.

Here. No Camaro till 2010. If they committed TODAY to make a chassis or hack up an existing chassis to mold a Camaro(which they havn't), you wouldn't get it till 2010. That's just the way things are in GM-land.

I've been following the 5th Gen discussion for months on this board, havent posted alot, but I follow all the time. From all the evidence talked about it's a given that GM has been working on developing a Camaro since it went on hiatus. Wasn't it Dano that got to be in a clinic and drive something very Camarolike back in '04. I'm pretty confident GM has most of the design and technical issues decided for the Camaro. I don't think it's going to take 3+ years to fit a chassis to a mostly designed car, even for GM. That's pretty ludicrous.

It's really nice to see the heavy passion some of you members display...At least lets somebody know we do CARE (whether its support or bitching, LOL). ;)

Anyways, do I think one will eventually come out? Yes. Do I think it will be out before 2008? Highly unlikely unless GM proves us all wrong.

But while I would absolutely love to see them come out with a Rustang squasher, I honestly don't even give this whole "5th Generation" scenario much of a second thought as something that will come out several years from now really has nothing to do with what is going on right now. :p

Yes, GM's lineup is obviously weak (especially in the under $30,000 V8 RWD high performance coupe sector as the GTO does nothing for a lot of us; including me). But I love my 4th gens so much that I won't be losing any sleep if GM decided not to bring back a newly platformed Camaro.

Regardless, if GM is reading this, you better give us something that SCREAMS the word Camaro through a design that is the process of evolution (and NOT any retro-themed vehicle). I want to see this next Camaro as a fresh, new style that leaves you with your jaws dropped wondering how they could possibly re-invent it yet again. :D Besides, if I wanted a retro-styled one, I'd just buy a damn 1st gen for crying out loud. As long as it has the styling to match the 400+ LSX engine under the hood, GM will more than have my interest. ;) $30,000 or less wouldn't hurt either... :cool:

Mike

After all of the shifting of platforms, I feel as though getting a Camaro to market before 2010 is an impossibility. First we thought it was going to go on sigma. Then the release date was pushed back because it was going to go on zeta. Then it was pushed back further with the Holden involvement. Now it's being pushed back again to go either on the next generation of sigma or some other rwd platform that we have no information about. After all of the shifting, I have my doubts.

And about those voting no should not be here? I voted no but I come here daily hoping to be proved wrong about my belief.

Here.

What part is news to you?

GTO is confirmed dead for N. America after 2006 when it supposed to migrate to the now extinct zeta chassis for the '07 model.

No Camaro till 2010.

I must've missed the GM press release saying the GTO is dead after next year. :blah: I don't see why GTO couldn't soldier on as an Aussie-built model until GM NA gets their act together. I also must've missed any official Camaro news whatsoever from GM.

I trust some of the insiders on this board, but don't you get the feeling that even they can't really be sure how this is all going to shake out?

I must've missed the GM press release saying the GTO is dead after next year. :blah: I don't see why GTO couldn't soldier on as an Aussie-built model until GM NA gets their act together. I also must've missed any official Camaro news whatsoever from GM.

I trust some of the insiders on this board, but don't you get the feeling that even they can't really be sure how this is all going to shake out?


Yeah some of the big connected guys have confirmed this. Evok over on C&G and I think Guion has also. Nothing's GM official(is it ever?) but when the zeta got axed, so did the zeta GTO.

There is no news on Camaro. Forget about official. The sheer chaos over GM and a lack of info should be an indicator that there's no Camaro. The thread's title is will there EVER be a new Camaro. I'd bet there will be. In the next 5 years? Nope.

I think things are starting dawn on a lot of people from the insiders to all us normal enthusiasts that GM has big problems and that little problems like no Camaro aren't even on the radar screen in Flint. No, the next gen truck line will decide GM's future.


So.. it just looks pretty bad after next year for GM performance.
You'll have CobaltSS/Ion Redlines and Solstice/Sky at the low end. ~$20K
Corvette ~$45K
Caddy V series stuff ~$50K+
Z06 ~$65K
And the SS truck line.

Same thing I said over a year ago before the GTO showed up, there's no affordable GM performance left for the average working stiff.

I don't think I've seen guionM "officially" state the GTO is dead, but anyway....

Even with no Camaro, GM's performance lineup looks decent, and the low-dollar products you mentioned (Kappa cars, Cobalt SS) look to be world-class. Again, across the range I'd put these options up against what is available from Ford....looks like you'll be able to buy performance from Ford as long as it's some kind of Mustang. No thanks. :)

It isn't like GM is ever on time to the party. :rolleyes:
For instance the number one example of this was the Silverado SS.
The Silverado SS came to the market 5 years after the Lightning, and was still inferior? "Better Late?" They should have stayed home :mad:
I guess ford didn't think it was so inferior, as they are now pushing an AWD concept, ala Silverado SS. Adrenalin or something like that I think its called! :rolleyes:

I understand the frustration here. But, do not assume that GM does not have the ability to get out all of the toys you have been discussing, and to get them out on time. There have been answers to everything that the competition could dream up. And a load of toys the competition could never dream of that would put their hardware on the trailer. GM engineering has the talent, the hardware and sure as heck has the know-how. But the final approval for any of these nasty creations comes from folks with a completely different mindset. Emphasis on different. And there friends is where the "flow restriction" is located.
Good post dude ! :bow: I agree !

I don't think I've seen guionM "officially" state the GTO is dead, but anyway....

Even with no Camaro, GM's performance lineup looks decent, and the low-dollar products you mentioned (Kappa cars, Cobalt SS) look to be world-class. Again, across the range I'd put these options up against what is available from Ford....looks like you'll be able to buy performance from Ford as long as it's some kind of Mustang. No thanks. :)
Another good post! :bow: Oh, and let me just say, I'll buy a mustang........, Ahem......, :death: Just as soon as someone pries my cold dead hands off of my T56 shiftknob,...NOT! :death: :p The Cobalt SS might not be for us F-body guys, but you have to admit, its a pretty serious blow to a market that was ignored before. P.S. Give the um new "sportbike", some Baer brakes or something that would be Killer!

I understand the frustration here. But, do not assume that GM does not have the ability to get out all of the toys you have been discussing, and to get them out on time. There have been answers to everything that the competition could dream up. And a load of toys the competition could never dream of that would put their hardware on the trailer. GM engineering has the talent, the hardware and sure as heck has the know-how. But the final approval for any of these nasty creations comes from folks with a completely different mindset. Emphasis on different. And there friends is where the "flow restriction" is located.

I think we have a new insider here. Not only that but one IN the belly of the beast, whose identity may not be known. :eek:

I think we have a new insider here. Not only that but one IN the belly of the beast, whose identity may not be known. :eek:
Could very well be! We can use all the insiders we can get. :cool: Wasn't D80 the spoiler option in 69?

http://motortrend.com/features/news/112_news003/

Morrissey said GM will look at the best way to add rear-wheel-drive cars in North America. A rear-wheel-drive platform is important because it offers the option of all-wheel-drive, which is proving popular in passenger cars. He also didn't rule out Velite and GTO being built off another GM platform.
We can let the fat lady sing for Zeta, but please do not jump to conclusions and say "GM will never make another RWD/AWD car".

Some observers suggest GM scrapped what was to be a low-volume Zeta lineup to turn to a platform that could accommodate higher-volume cars, crossovers and SUVs in rear- and all-wheel-drive.
Maybe they're taking the Nissan approach. Look how well Nissan has done.


I have no doubt that there will be a 5th-gen Camaro...maybe not now, but in a few years, I think we'll have one. Consider the story of the Monte Carlo...a successful coupe for GM back in the 80s, but they cancelled it in 1989. 7 years later, the Monte Carlo comes back, on a completely different platform with a completely different design.

I think the same will happen for the Camaro..no matter how long it takes.

And the GTO will not be dead...

I guess ford didn't think it was so inferior, as they are now pushing an AWD concept, ala Silverado SS. Adrenalin or something like that I think its called! :rolleyes:

Can you honestly say you'd take a Silverado SS over a 99+ L?
If I have to wait 5 years for a product: it better completly destroy the field of competitors in the market its in. The SRT-10 Ram came to the market as something worth the wait, Silverado SS... Not so much. :mad:

Can you honestly say you'd take a Silverado SS over a 99+ L?
If I have to wait 5 years for a product: it better completly destroy the field of competitors in the market its in. The SRT-10 Ram came to the market as something worth the wait, Silverado SS... Not so much. :mad:
I will admit they mist the boat here, they should have put out a reg.cab SS( Lightning killer) to go head to head with the lightning, and certainly they could have easily made more power out of the LSx, without any SCer(01 Z06 made that without it & 02 was 405hp N/A) than the weak 385. Yeah, I said weak, cuz for being Supercharged I thought it was. And the AWD SS was not even in the same class, so someone else classified it as inferior. Apples and Oranges. Point is now Ford has a similar concept, in that class. And no I wouldn't take a 99 or any yr. Lightning, I thought they were weak and am working on my own lightning killer. Seriously though I never liked the styling, they looked like someone took a truck and melted it, or like a droopy dog. If you like them, great buy 1, I don't. I don't mind SCer's I actually like them when done right (I hate turbos), I didn't think 385 was done right. PPl make alot more with an LT1 or LS1 and a Procharger, or stroker crank so that is what I based my opinion on. I wasn't going to knock it (Silverado SS) cuz it was not what I wanted. The SSR & GTO are suffering from that and its a shame. SRT10 is pretty serious, I'm not gonna knock the power it makes, just not a big fan of the heavy V10. It was cool for a while. What is it 500HP, now the next Z06 will be makin' that much with just a V8. And its alot lighter than a V10 to boot. I do believe GM has, and has always had the best powertrains in the business. No one here, or in any trash ragzines will convince me otherwise. With all the power the LSx can make, and atleast in the C5 was considered a LEV (Low Emissions Vehicles), I mean come on, is it any wonder all the other engines from "Across Town" are starting to look strikingly familiar. This is why I buy GM exclusively, and don't read crappy A** trash that comes from a country that hates our country, and our companies. I do agree it, better destroy the competition or there'll be alot of pissed off f-body fans. Camaro must be as it was in 67 better in every way.

I will admit they mist the boat here, they should have put out a reg.cab SS( Lightning killer) to go head to head with the lightning, and certainly they could have easily made more power out of the LSx, without any SCer(01 Z06 made that without it & 02 was 405hp N/A) than the weak 385. Yeah, I said weak, cuz for being Supercharged I thought it was. And the AWD SS was not even in the same class, so someone else classified it as inferior. Apples and Oranges. Point is now Ford has a similar concept, in that class. And no I wouldn't take a 99 or any yr. Lightning, I thought they were weak and am working on my own lightning killer.

Fair enough. I still think you're missing an essential part of what makes the Lightning special: it isn't the factory rating that makes the truck my choice in the field... Since its blown, Just like the 03 ~ 04 Cobra, it isn't rocket science to make BIG Power with these trucks. Simple bolt ons: Blower pulley, Intake, Full Exhaust & a Tune and you're really rocking! Like the 03+ Cobra, it isn't hard to be making 500+ horsepower. Unless you got an SS and strapped a bottle on, I don't think you could make more power with less money invested. :think: Just like an LTx/LSx engine, it isn't the power that the engine left the factory with, it the power potential the motor posseses. The L is down right easy to waste a weekend, and pump out 125+ more RWHP.

Fair enough. I still think you're missing an essential part of what makes the Lightning special: it isn't the factory rating that makes the truck my choice in the field... Since its blown, Just like the 03 ~ 04 Cobra, it isn't rocket science to make BIG Power with these trucks. Simple bolt ons: Blower pulley, Intake, Full Exhaust & a Tune and you're really rocking! Like the 03+ Cobra, it isn't hard to be making 500+ horsepower. Unless you got an SS and strapped a bottle on, I don't think you could make more power with less money invested. :think: Just like an LTx/LSx engine, it isn't the power that the engine left the factory with, it the power potential the motor posseses. The L is down right easy to waste a weekend, and pump out 125+ more RWHP.
I get why they are special to those who have them. I'm not missing it, I'm just saying I don't like the looks of them. I have my own Lightning (Buell X1 Lightning). That is the only Lightning for me. I'm not saying you, or anybody else shouldn't like them. I'm fine with that. But the Silverado SS was not meant to be a Lightning fighter, yet everyone put it in that class. You can get a SCed Silverado's from certain dealers if thats what you want it for. Look its no secret I am a brand loyal GM guy I don't buy Fords. I am workin through my Ford, Mopar bashing stage, its a process. ;) I now have bigger fish to fry. I would like the big 3 back at the top . I am for the failure of any car companies coming from countries that are not our friends. I would like too see Benz go back where they came from, know what I mean. This is why I have even lightened up on Japan. car co.(nissan not included) , as they( Japan) seem to be our friends. Unlike some other countries who are not, and never were, contrary to popular belief. By the way nice color choice on the Goat silver looks awsome. I'm runnin' the Z06 rims on my Z too, they look sweet! Does anyone make them in 17X11 like the old ZR1's? I can't find any.