Ford vs Chevy sales for 2004 (including other GM sales news)

I posted something similar in another thread. I figured I'd expand it and turn it into it's own thread.

Chevrolet sold 2,763,238 vehicles in 2004 vs 2,655,777 last year, a 4%increase!
Ford sold 2,778,678 this year vs 2,894,347, down slightly for the year.

Vehicle to vehicle sales:
Impala vs Taurus:
290,259 vs 248,148

Mustang vs Monte Carlo (Mustang was out of production 3 months this year):
129,858 vs 57,679 :eek:

Cavalier vs Focus:
195,275 vs 208,339

Thunderbird vs Corvette:
11,998 vs 35,276


Ford's strength is their new F150, which because of it's record breaking year and the general decline of Lincoln & Ford's SUV line, now makes up nearly 34% of Ford's sales next to 29% last year.

Chevy's comes amid agressive incentives virturally across the board. Only the Cavalier & Monte Carlo saw sales drop this past year.

GM's best selling cars: Impala at #1. Cavalier at 195,275 was #2. The new Malibu was 3rd at 179,806 (Classics still sold 88,211)

Ford's: Taurus #1, #2 Focus at 208,339. Third was Mustang :alert: at 129,858. Not bad for a car that missed production 1/4 of the year. :)



And in case some of you others were wondering:

GM still sold 127 new Camaros, 206 Auroras, 5 Chevy Prizms, 7 Eldorados, & 109 Firebirds. All long discontinued.

RWD Cadillac CTS are within striking distance of the best selling FWD DeVille. DeVille's sales dropped 17% while CTS' is up 16%. There is a 10K spread between them for 2004, but in December, CTS was less than 200 cars behind the DeVille in sales.

Corvette sales jumped 26%

SSR sales jumped an astonding 480%

And finally to you GTO neighsayers, especially to the fellow who claimed the October & November GTO sales increase was just a spike, and claimed the numbers would drop as people discovered the 2005 had more horsepower, and dealer greed had absolutley nothing to do with it's sales failure :rolleyes: :no: :

GTO sold 2952 cars in December, selling 13,569 for the year. In fact, In December, GTO sold 1/3 the rate of Grand Prixs, & slightly outsold Corvette! :shock:

As for competitors:
Mustang Cobra 2003: 13,467
Mustang Mach 1 2003: 9652
GTO 2004: 13,569

No doubt, if it wasn't for dealer gouging, dealer policy on test drives, dealers sabotaging potential sales for the first 8 months of this year & GM misjudging incentives, GTO would have easily managed to sell an extra 4,431 cars this year meeting it's target...heck, till last August, GTO didn't even break 1000 cars per month!

Should be intresting to see what happens with the 13,000 sales target in GTO's shortened 2005 model year (January-September). :think:

http://www.blueovalnews.com/2004/sales/trends.03may04.htm
http://www.blueovalnews.com/2005/business/sales.final.2004.htm
http://media.gm.com/

I posted something similar in another thread. I figured I'd expand it and turn it into it's own thread.

Chevrolet sold 2,763,238 vehicles in 2004 vs 801,143 last year, a 14.6% increase!
A jump from 800k to 2.8 million?! That is more than a 14.6% increase. ;) :p

if they sold GTOs here the sale figures would look totally different.

A jump from 800k to 2.8 million?! That is more than a 14.6% increase. ;) :p

Edited.

Darn cut & paste. :lol:

Some thoughts...

Good to see GTO doing well... further proof of the dealer gouging problem and not so much the car not being wanted in the numbers they were wanting to sell.

Interesting that the ANCIENT Cavalier stayed so close to the relatively new Focus. Will be interesting ot see how Cobalt competes since it is a bit higher priced.

A jump from 800k to 2.8 million?! That is more than a 14.6% increase. ;) :p

He probably forgot the 1 in front of it and left out about a million sales.

guionM,
I'm not sure your figures are correct.
This (http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/IROL/84/84530/sales_production/deliveries_0105.xls) link, from the GM site, Investor Information lists Chevrolet's '03 sales of 2,655,777 units versus '04 sales of 2,763,238...which is only a 4% increase.
S.

guionM,
I'm not sure your figures are correct.
This (http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/IROL/84/84530/sales_production/deliveries_0105.xls) link, from the GM site, Investor Information lists Chevrolet's '03 sales of 2,655,777 units versus '04 sales of 2,763,238...which is only a 4% increase.
S.

Might not include medium duty and chassis builds.

I wonder how they count those...

Might not include medium duty and chassis builds.

I wonder how they count those...Nope...looks like he had a typo and corrected it. 14.6% seemed way out of whack.

Got in now.
S.

Great thread guionM. But why in god's name did you compare the Bird to Vette? Because it is a 2 seater?

It's always interesting to see this sort of data. Thanks for posting. To play devil's advocate for a sec...


GTO sold 2952 cars in December, selling 13,569 for the year. In fact, In December, GTO sold 1/3 the rate of Grand Prixs, & slightly outsold Corvette! :shock:

As for competitors:
Mustang Cobra 2003: 13,467
Mustang Mach 1 2003: 9652
GTO 2004: 13,569

No doubt, if it wasn't for dealer gouging, dealer policy on test drives, dealers sabotaging potential sales for the first 8 months of this year & GM misjudging incentives, GTO would have easily managed to sell an extra 4,431 cars this year meeting it's target...heck, till last August, GTO didn't even break 1000 cars per month!

Should be intresting to see what happens with the 13,000 sales target in GTO's shortened 2005 model year (January-September). :think:
The flip side of this: How many GTOs would have sold if they had not been discounted by approximately 17% for the last couple of months ($5500 rebate), along with other incentives? Some folks are reporting that they are buying brand new GTOs for $24k ( or less (http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showpost.php?p=173696&postcount=18)) which is ~27% off of MSRP.

Just some food for...uh.....throwing out I guess. ;)

As for competitors:
Mustang Cobra 2003: 13,467
Mustang Mach 1 2003: 9652
GTO 2004: 13,569



Bob thanks for pointing this out first. I over looked it. 2003 Cobra/MACH 1 sales numbers vs 2004 GTO sales? They should of announced the 04 Cobra numbers by now? Or did you do a oopsie and do a typo. ;)

It is interesting to note the differences in philosophy between GM and Ford now.

Bill Ford has said that there will be no more "heavy hitters" like the Taurus was in its day. They prefer to build cars that will have respectable sales (say 100K+), that have a higher retail mix, higher resale, lower incentives, and much fewer large fleet sales. In other words, they prefer to sell cars at a profit. They have been willing to sacrifice market share to do this also.

GM is all about volume. Volume at any cost.

Its funny, because they both used to have that same philosophy.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the end.

Cavalier sales do not surprise me at all. When you can give away a brand new car for less than $9K, the sales will come. It doesn't matter how crappy the product is. This was proven very well by the first Hyundai Excel.

It will be interesting to see how Cobalt sales play out. Seeing as how the car is far upmarket from where the Cavalier was. Will the general public see it as the good car it is.............. or see it as a "redesigned" Cavalier with a higher price. (remembering that the general public are not car enthusiasts who know that this is an ALL NEW car). I think the appearance similarities (the Cobalt could be an evolution of the Cavalier in looks) could confuse the laymen.

SSR sales jumped an astonding 480%


Somehow this seems odd since they are piling up on lots everywhere (there is a three hundred and something day supply) and GM is forcing small town dealers in the "middle of nowhere" to take them. Not to mention they also halted production due to the above.

Edited for Comedic Value:

Vehicle to vehicle sales:

Impala vs Taurus:
290,259 vs 248,148
Winner: Avis

Mustang vs Monte Carlo
129,858 vs 57,679:
Loser: Geff Gordon

Cavalier vs Focus:
195,275 vs 208,339
Winner: Focus, with 208,339 recalls

Thunderbird vs Corvette:
11,998 vs 35,276
Owner with no penis vs. owner with small penis.
Winner: Owner with small penis.

And in case some of you others were wondering:

GM still sold 127 new Camaros, 206 Auroras, 5 Chevy Prizms, 7 Eldorados, & 109 Firebirds. All long discontinued.
(New owners were given a self help book "Coping with instant depreciation")

Corvette sales jumped 26%
(Sales of Viagara are up 26%)

SSR sales jumped an astonding 480%
(480% of SSRs are on sale)

Edited for Comedic Value:

Vehicle to vehicle sales:

Impala vs Taurus:
290,259 vs 248,148
Winner: Avis

Mustang vs Monte Carlo
129,858 vs 57,679:
Loser: Geff Gordon

Cavalier vs Focus:
195,275 vs 208,339
Winner: Focus, with 208,339 recalls

Thunderbird vs Corvette:
11,998 vs 35,276
Owner with no penis vs. owner with small penis.
Winner: Owner with small penis.

And in case some of you others were wondering:

GM still sold 127 new Camaros, 206 Auroras, 5 Chevy Prizms, 7 Eldorados, & 109 Firebirds. All long discontinued.
(New owners were given a self help book "Coping with instant depreciation")

Corvette sales jumped 26%
(Sales of Viagara are up 26%)

SSR sales jumped an astonding 480%
(480% of SSRs are on sale)

Awesome post WERM. But a man buying a T-Bird HAS a penis. That is why he did'nt go for the Vette. He is "confident" about himself. :D

Awesome post WERM. But a man buying a T-Bird HAS a penis. That is why he did'nt go for the Vette. He is "confident" about himself. :D

Haha , no ....Werm had it right . Man buying T-bird has no penis because the new T-bird is a middle to older aged womens car :D ;)

And yet again , the Mustang proving wrong anyone who says theres not a market for 2-door RWD cars .

94lightninggal- Ive driven a Cobalt . Trust me , anyone that has cavi now will be put into shock at just how better the new Cobalt is every possible aspect .

It's always interesting to see this sort of data. Thanks for posting. To play devil's advocate for a sec...



The flip side of this: How many GTOs would have sold if they had not been discounted by approximately 17% for the last couple of months ($5500 rebate), along with other incentives? Some folks are reporting that they are buying brand new GTOs for $24k ( or less (http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showpost.php?p=173696&postcount=18)) which is ~27% off of MSRP.

Just some food for...uh.....throwing out I guess. ;)



how many 04 cobras were sold im wondering?


werent they also discounted? ;)

10,000-ish in 04. And yes, towards the end of the 25-odd year chassis, they most certainly did discount them - $3000 rebate....and some of us did even better than that. :)

Impala vs Taurus:
290,259 vs 248,148


If it's not broke, don't fix it. I can't see the Impala leaving FWD anytime soon. With a much stronger engine line up and great interior (better than Honda & Toyota from the pics) I see Impala sales breaking 300,000 easy in 2005.

As for competitors:
Mustang Cobra 2003: 13,467
Mustang Mach 1 2003: 9652
GTO 2004: 13,569


Since the GTO was a flop :rolleyes: does this make the Cobra and Mach 1 flops too?

does anyone have total sales for GM and ford for 2004?

Since the GTO was a flop :rolleyes: does this make the Cobra and Mach 1 flops too?

LOL...I think that's about what Ford planned to sell. :)

does anyone have total sales for GM and ford for 2004?

I'm assuming you missed the totals in the begining? ;)

Since the GTO was a flop :rolleyes: does this make the Cobra and Mach 1 flops too?


GTO is one car. In NA anyway. The Mustang and its stable mates are still Mustangs.All of them have a horse on them. So nope, Mustang a flop yeah right!!

Game over. :D

Bob, What color is your Cobra.......... ;)

Cavalier sales do not surprise me at all. When you can give away a brand new car for less than $9K, the sales will come. It doesn't matter how crappy the product is. This was proven very well by the first Hyundai Excel.

It will be interesting to see how Cobalt sales play out. Seeing as how the car is far upmarket from where the Cavalier was. Will the general public see it as the good car it is.............. or see it as a "redesigned" Cavalier with a higher price. (remembering that the general public are not car enthusiasts who know that this is an ALL NEW car). I think the appearance similarities (the Cobalt could be an evolution of the Cavalier in looks) could confuse the laymen.

Funny how the Cavalier is considered to be such a bad car by the car magazines and people on this site although they sold very well. It's not as "crappy" as it's made out to be. I drove one for 5 years as my daily driver and put well over 100,000 miles on it. It was a tremendously reliable car. Never had the first bit of mechanical trouble, got great gas mileage and served its purpose very well. The only rattle the car ever had was the loose change I kept in the console.

Since the GTO was a flop :rolleyes: does this make the Cobra and Mach 1 flops too?

Cobras met their numbers, and they didn't need massive rebates to help them sell.

I'm assuming you missed the totals in the begining? ;)


are those totals for GM or just chevy?

http://www.gwinnettfordatlanta.com/pages/present/flm/notlocalized/searchinventory/dosearch.asp?year=2004&make=Ford&vehicletype=Car&model=Mustang&bodystyle=SVT+Cobra+Coupe&count=20


in case anyone was looking. :D

Funny how the Cavalier is considered to be such a bad car by the car magazines and people on this site although they sold very well. It's not as "crappy" as it's made out to be. I drove one for 5 years as my daily driver and put well over 100,000 miles on it. It was a tremendously reliable car. Never had the first bit of mechanical trouble, got great gas mileage and served its purpose very well. The only rattle the car ever had was the loose change I kept in the console.

I rented one once. It was a miserable little POS. It vibrated. The interior was made out of squeaky lawn furniture grade plastics and had horrible fit and finish. It wasn't confortable. It handled poorly. It was slow. It had mushy brakes. Basically anything that you would not like on a car, this car had. I can't imagine owning this car for more than 5 miles, let alone 100,000, reliability be damned.

The only other car I've rented that even came close in mediocrity was a Toyota Corolla.

are those totals for GM or just chevy?

Like I posted, it's Chevrolet's total. :)


Additional sales figures for everyone:

General Motors North America produced 4,707,416 vehicles in 2004.

Breakdown:
Chevrolet: 2,763,238 (+4%)
GMC: 602,064 (+4%)
Pontiac: 474,179 (-.3%)
Buick: 309,639 (-8.1%)
Cadillac: 234,217 (+8.4%)
Saturn: 212,017 (-21.8%)
SAAB: 38,159 (-20.4%)
HUMMER: 29,345 (-16.8%)
Oldsmobile: 28,851 (-77.1%)
Isuzu: 15,707 (+19.7%)

http://www.media.gm.com/

Ford Motor Company sold 3,331,676 cars in 2004 (-4.4%).

Breakdown:
Ford: 2,778,678 (-4%)
Mercury:193,534 (-4.3%)
Volvo: 139,067 (+3.3%)
Lincoln: 139,016 (-12.5%)
Jaguar: 45,875 (-16.1%)
Land Rover: 35,506 (-9%)

http://media.ford.com/pdf/Dec2004sales.pdf


Recap:
*Chevrolet is GM's 800 pound gorilla, making up over half of all GM sales ALONE.
*Ford outsells Chevy, though Ford's sales are down & Chevys are up both by 4%.
*Buick outsells Mercury by 16,000 cars, despite a big drop in sales.
*Land Rover outsells Hummer, and Hummers's sales have dropped almost twice as far as Rover.
*Volvo is burying SAAB...badly. A 100,000 cars out of 139,000 is pretty badly.
*Cadillac is outselling Lincoln & Jaguar...combined... by a very large margin. & years ago, Lincoln was outselling Cadillac badly...alone!

http://www.gwinnettfordatlanta.com/pages/present/flm/notlocalized/searchinventory/dosearch.asp?year=2004&make=Ford&vehicletype=Car&model=Mustang&bodystyle=SVT+Cobra+Coupe&count=20


in case anyone was looking. :D
Wow! I'll keep that in mind, cause there is always someone (on the Ford sites) looking for a Cobra. :)

Funny how the Cavalier is considered to be such a bad car by the car magazines and people on this site although they sold very well. It's not as "crappy" as it's made out to be. I drove one for 5 years as my daily driver and put well over 100,000 miles on it. It was a tremendously reliable car. Never had the first bit of mechanical trouble, got great gas mileage and served its purpose very well. The only rattle the car ever had was the loose change I kept in the console.

My mother had a 2000 Cavalier that she bought brand new. It had 57,000 miles on it when she traded it in on a 2004 Mazda 6. She is 61 years old, and always had the car maintained properly.

When she traded it in it needed a new steering rack, to the tune of $700. Everything sqeeked and rattled. The rear suspension moaned and groaned to the tune of which I have never heard before. The brakes were mushy and grabby and felt like they needed to be changed, but were fine. It rode like crap and handled like crap.

In its defense, what it was is basic transportation that always ran.

However, that is also the best thing I can say about it.

BTW, she got about $2K for it on trade. Luckily I got her a real good deal on the 6, so she was able to get out of her upside down status in her Cavalier, and still have a new loan that was less than MSRP on the 6.

She LOVES her Mazda 6. I have gotta say, that is one gorgeous car. I love the way it runs, handles, and looks. Zoom Zoom. :D

I've owned a few Cavaliers before ('87 RS & '91 RS) and they were good cars. Base Cavaliers are just basic transportation, not ment to be anything special. My best Cavalier was a '91 RS Convertible with 3.1L V6 and a 5-speed. It was all white (exterior,interior, top, & wheels) with a blue accent stripe. Even though it was just a Cavalier, I always got alot of looks in that car when the top was down. RS had beefed up suspension so they handled great, and the V6 5-speed combo was great. The car was really fast off the line, but it didn't have much top end. It would do 15s in the 1/4 mile all day long, and that was really good in the early 90s. I beat a lot of cars that you wouldn't think it would like a early 90s Camaro RS 5.0 TBI, Taurus SHO auto, and a late 80s Toyota Supra.

I drove that car to over 150K and it never had to go to the dealer once for trouble. Cavaliers make excellent first cars, at least they did back then. Cavaliers also have a huge following, more than any other entry level domestic car.
Later Cavaliers aren't the same to me, to me Cavalier lost its soul when the V6 option was not offered anymore.

GTO is one car. In NA anyway. The Mustang and its stable mates are still Mustangs.All of them have a horse on them. So nope, Mustang a flop yeah right!!

Game over. :D




There are no V6 or "entry level V8" GTO's either... so, there is some merit to the comparison.

Why isn't Mazda's sales added to FoMoCos?

Additional sales figures for everyone:

General Motors North America produced 4,707,416 vehicles in 2004.

Breakdown:
Chevrolet: 2,763,238 (+4%)
GMC: 602,064 (+4%)
Pontiac: 474,179 (-.3%)
Buick: 309,639 (-8.1%)
Cadillac: 234,217 (+8.4%)
Saturn: 212,017 (-21.8%)
SAAB: 38,159 (-20.4%)
HUMMER: 29,345 (-16.8%)
Oldsmobile: 28,851 (-77.1%)
Isuzu: 15,707 (+19.7%)

http://www.media.gm.com/

Ford Motor Company sold 3,331,676 cars in 2004 (-4.4%).

Breakdown:
Ford: 2,778,678 (-4%)
Mercury:193,534 (-4.3%)
Volvo: 139,067 (+3.3%)
Lincoln: 139,016 (-12.5%)
Jaguar: 45,875 (-16.1%)
Land Rover: 35,506 (-9%)

http://media.ford.com/pdf/Dec2004sales.pdf

Can you get DCX numbers up there as well?

And finally to you GTO neighsayers, especially to the fellow who claimed the October & November GTO sales increase was just a spike, and claimed the numbers would drop as people discovered the 2005 had more horsepower, and dealer greed had absolutley nothing to do with it's sales failure

LOL Yes that was me. Now I never said the numbers WOULD drop for the prospect of 2005 models, I just said it might..

Now almost 3k units does prove me wrong for sure in it not selling, but it also does not that dealer gouging was to blame..It can easily be the sticker price, considering the dealer markups stopped and sales still were weak, and the sticker price was too high to begin with, still not selling like it should...

It is crazy with the incentives... someone would be able to buy a GTO for as low as 22K...I could now see sales jump at that price. As much as over 9k off the sticker :lol: in order to sell good numbers.....

If GM priced the car better in the first place, then there would never have been an issue.. ;)

Now lets see if it takes thousands in incentives to sell good numbers with the 2005 GTO. What is the goal 12k right?

Maybe Gm can take a lesson learned from this and put a car like the GTO in the mid 20's, and watch them actually sell.

Anyone have the DCX numbers? Or know where I can find them?

I thought I read on here that selling a Cavalier actually cost GM money, or they made very very little. Do we know if that's the business case with the Cobalt, too? Although Im pretty sure they didnt sell a lot of $22,000 Cavaliers like they will with the Cobalt SS...

I thought I read on here that selling a Cavalier actually cost GM money, or they made very very little. Do we know if that's the business case with the Cobalt, too? Although Im pretty sure they didnt sell a lot of $22,000 Cavaliers like they will with the Cobalt SS...


Yes, I had heard the same thing even locally here where the J-cars were built.

A main focus of the Delta car, though, was to be able to turn a profit on a small car... so we'll see how it goes... so far, everything seems on track...