GM sales plummet

http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0412/02/A01-22222.htm


Bottom line:

You can put thousands of dollars worth of incentives on the hood, but if consumers don't like the product, they won't buy it.

Why the surprise? What else was available to buyers in November other than incentive laden 2004 models?

It seems that car sales in general are down a whole lot. Its not that somebody stole sales away really. Either way...pretty sad to see GMs new line-up not doing too swell :no:
Why the surprise? What else was available to buyers in November other than incentive laden 2004 models?
Thats why they judge sales the way they do, same month to same month (Nov. of '03 to Nov. '04). Sales should be close to where they were at the same time last year.

Take a look at all of GM's new cars....like the Malibu, LaCrosse, STS, and G6.....all sales are off to a great start, or still very high.
After you take away the sales of cars that are on there way out...it actualy looks pretty good. Only down side is the trucks, which is no fing suprise.

Bottom line:

You can put thousands of dollars worth of incentives on the hood, but if consumers don't like the product, they won't buy it.
How many of those incentives apply to new 2005 models? None?

I'm fairly sure, at least in GM's case, that most if not all of the incentives out there, including "lock 'n' roll", can only be used for the purchase of overstock 2004 models.

Who wants to buy those when the '05's are either here or on the way?

Lastly, of the '05's that are available on dealer's lots; how many don't have MARKET DEMAND mark-ups on top of MSRP and Dealer Prep?

It really should be no surprise to anyone. :think:

Take a look at all of GM's new cars....like the Malibu, LaCrosse, STS, and G6.....all sales are off to a great start, or still very high.
After you take away the sales of cars that are on there way out...it actualy looks pretty good. Only down side is the trucks, which is no fing suprise.
Linky?

How many of those incentives apply to new 2005 models? None?

I'm fairly sure, at least in GM's case, that most if not all of the incentives out there, including "lock 'n' roll", can only be used for the purchase of overstock 2004 models.

Who wants to buy those when the '05's are either here or on the way?

Lastly, of the '05's that are available on dealer's lots; how many don't have MARKET DEMAND mark-ups on top of MSRP and Dealer Prep?

It really should be no surprise to anyone. :think:
Again....the same thing can be said about last year.

Yet Chrysler is up, im guessing mainly due to the 300. Nissan up 25% wow what are they selling?

I kind of surprised Ford is down with the launch of the new stang and the 500, maybe its too soon for them yet.

I kind of surprised Ford is down with the launch of the new stang and the 500, maybe its too soon for them yet.Yeah, but are they available on dealer's lots? My local Ford dealer has tons of incentives on '04's... but who wants those now that the '05's are out? ;)

Yet Chrysler is up, im guessing mainly due to the 300. Nissan up 25% wow what are they selling?
Armada, the Infinity version of it (Q56?) New Maxima, 350Z, G35 are all entering their second years so now more of the market knows about them and are jumping all over it. I saw this happening last year. Nissan has one of the best over-all line-ups on the market right now IMHO, and with only like 3 platforms total :lol:

My local dealer has at least 10 new 500s. Mustangs are in short supply (no surprise), but other new models are all over, including Freestyle.

I just read the same article in the Wall Street Journal a few minutes ago...with Chrysler, Nissan and Toyota up WITHOUT huge incentives, it appears GM may need to keep pumping new models out and play the waiting game. They either have to keep the incentives rolling or un-train the incentive-hogging consumer.

Being one of those hogs myself, I hope personally they keep them up through '05...I really want to afford something new :)

GM's sales should increase alot during the next year. after like 80 years of business they finally learned their lesson...just because a car is cheap, doesn't mean you have to build it to be ugly. if you think people will buy a more expensive good looking car just for the looks, your wrong. they will just buy used...or a honda

Ford's sales drop is no surprise. It can't keep Mustangs on the lots, but what other cars does Ford have? Focus & Taurus are still selling strongly, but compared to the insane numbers they used to sell at (pushing 250-300,000 per year!) current figures look dismal. The 500 is no treat either. It's the same size and out the door price as a 300 Touring. Guess what the public is going for.

As for GM, I've been saying this for some time. GM simply can't compete in TODAY's market.

First of all, GM has screwed themselves over royally in the incentive game. You can't do what GM's been doing with rebates & incentives, and then expect people to look at you and not equate you with K-Mart, regardless as to how good your stuff is. Even when your better stuff hits the showroom, customers not only see cars right next to it on the showroom with heavy discounts, they also have gotten so used to incentives & discounts that they will wait till it's offered.

Secondly, although GM has great things coming, GM is simply unable to keep up with the marketplace. GM's management simply isn't structured to react quickly to todays market. Despite leading edge technology in design & engineering, international hyperspace connection between all GM operations in the world, and a streamlined approval process that is capable of bringing a car from idea to production in just 18 months, GM still is unable to get a car developed in less than 4 years, just like the 60s and 70s!

The Solstice is a example. It was on display the same year as the Ford GT. Both cars were pushed hard by key people in the company, and represented the fastest each company could produce a new car. Ford GT came out a year ago. Solstice is still nearly a year away. While GM went through endless committee meetings, analysis, approval processes, and had numerous restarts, Ford simply crunched the numbers to find a way to make it work out, and put the thing together! GM's Holden division works this way too.

Chrysler right now is leading the domestic market in growth. It's actually gaining not just sales, but market share.... without incentives!!

Since I really don't see people trading in Toyotas, Nissans, or Kias for Chryslers, it's safe to say GM and Ford is giving their market share to Chrysler.

Just look for domestic alternatives to the 300. I think so.

The Solstice is a example. It was on display the same year as the Ford GT. Both cars were pushed hard by key people in the company, and represented the fastest each company could produce a new car. Ford GT came out a year ago. Solstice is still nearly a year away. While GM went through endless committee meetings, analysis, approval processes, and had numerous restarts, Ford simply crunched the numbers to find a way to make it work out, and put the thing together! GM's Holden division works this way too.



This is pretty straight forward.

It's amazing to me that they can't simply cut a lot of the fat from the process... they'd probably save a lot of cash along the way as well.

Guion, are there ANY plans for GM to change its slow and always behind ways to actually compete and get things out when they should?

Chrysler has no incentives? What? Somebody better call Chrysler advertising and notify them about it :irk:

Guion, are there ANY plans for GM to change its slow and always behind ways to actually compete and get things out when they should?

That's why Bob Lutz was brought aboard. But I don't think it's his fault things haven't changed structurally.

He has greased the skids for the Cobalt to be as good as it is (he's responsible for getting the extra cash for the interior), cut though the excuses to get the GTO here, and kept the Solstice alive long enough to see daylight (it would have surely died otherwise).

Ford is run by a consensus of department heads with Bill Ford as an influence, while it seems that GM is run by multiple commitees where Bob Lutz or CEO Wagoner are reduced to trouble shooters to get good ideas from rank and file a fighting chance.

GM simply can't tear down fifedoms inside itself, or "stroke of the pen" cut approval processes. GM hired Ross Perot in the early 80s and virturally went bankrupt in the early 90s, and it still couldn't change.

It's just the way it's put together, unfortunately.

so it has to go through all those people if we were to ever get a 5th gen?
what if Lutz put some guys working on it without the committees knowing it? is that possible at all?

Take a look at all of GM's new cars....like the Malibu, LaCrosse, STS, and G6.....all sales are off to a great start, or still very high.
After you take away the sales of cars that are on there way out...it actualy looks pretty good. Only down side is the trucks, which is no fing suprise.
Unfortunately, that's a perpetual problem at GM. When you have 60+ models on the market at any given time, there's always going to be a whole bunch of them at the end of their lifecycles dragging things down. It gets back to the old problem of too many divisions and too many models, and GM doesn't have the ability to keep them all relevant.

To me the minivans are the epitome of this situation, and since they're brand new, they can't be blamed on the "old GM". GM actually had a pretty competitive van when it debuted in 1997. But they let it stagnate, while the Japanese kept pushing and improving their offerings every 4-5 years. Now, 8 years later, GM finally releases new models and they're barely warmed over versions of their predecessors! They are so far behind their competition that there's no way they'll sell without putting thousands of dollars on their hoods. GM's excuse: we'd rather put the money into other programs. Oddly enough, they had enough money to develop & market versions for 4 divisions, which only exacerbates the problem of model proliferation.

GM needs to realize that it isn't the king anymore. They can't afford to offer a car in every single possible market. Maybe take a page from GE's book: if you can't be first or second in a sector, get out of it. Why waste money and resources with these half-ass attempts? Save the $600M or so it cost to 'freshen' the minivans and put that money into a product that they can build to be best-in-class. I'd sooner see fewer, better models than trying to please every possible niche with ever more variations of their pablum.

so it has to go through all those people if we were to ever get a 5th gen?
what if Lutz put some guys working on it without the committees knowing it? is that possible at all?
Yeah, and what if those people were ninjas!

Of interest to note, Mustang sales were up 12% overall, but retail sales of Mustang were up 50%. So, that is a real good showing for retail sales, and emphasizes Fords lower fleet sales strategy.

The 500/Montego sold 6300 units for November. This is a pretty good showing for the first full month with very limited inventory on the ground. Especially when you figure Ford only has sales for these cars estimated at 100,000 units per year.

F-series sales were up again in November.

What pulled down Ford sales were the Focus (down 40% for November). This can also be partially accounted for by lower fleet sales.

I read an interesting interview with Bill Ford. He has said that he is more than happy to let Hertz (owned by Ford) buy a ton of cars from Chevrolet, even if it means losing the yearly sales crown (who cares) and market share. He would rather do that than dilute the resale of the new products by flooding the market with off-rental units. He also said that he would expect the new products to start to have much more impact by summer. He told the interviewer that this is when Ford expects to start to see their market share nudge back up. He also reminded the interview that FMC is very pleased with the results of the new products thus far, as there are no rebates on them. This is the strategy that Ford intends to take for the long term.

Of interest, GM truck sales are not keeping up with F-series sales. YTD, Ford is about 44,000 units ahead of GMC/Chevrolet. Also of interest, Silverado sales are down for the year, and Sierra sales are up. I guess people still are not real happy with the looks of the Silverado.

Just an observation.

Also of interest, Silverado sales are down for the year, and Sierra sales are up. I guess people still are not real happy with the looks of the Silverado.

No doubt at all in my mind. In Canada, Sierra actually outsells Silverado. Pontiacs also tend to sell disproportionately better up here, with some models outselling their Chevrolet counterparts. I think that in the US, Chevrolet has such a huge marketing juggernaut that they are able to sell better than they should.

I just don't understand why some people don't like the looks of the new Silverado's :no: They're the most aggressive looking on the market with the Ram at a close second IMHO. The F-150 still looks as plain as always....maybe thats why they sell in obscene #'s I guess?

so it has to go through all those people if we were to ever get a 5th gen?
what if Lutz put some guys working on it without the committees knowing it? is that possible at all?

Lutz wouldn't do that (as a vice chairman). Suspect he wouldn't get involved unless there's organizational obsticles, or else he'd encourage someone else to do it (form a "under-the-radar" group).

Forming a skunkworks for a Camaro would be from someone a little lower on the food chain.

I just don't understand why some people don't like the looks of the new Silverado's :no: They're the most aggressive looking on the market with the Ram at a close second IMHO. The F-150 still looks as plain as always....maybe thats why they sell in obscene #'s I guess?


I know I wouldn't buy a silverado unless they do something about the grill/headlights. I dissagree with it being the most aggressive on the market. I see it as more goofy than aggressive. But I didn't like it at all when the new body style came out in 99 to begin with. I like the 99-01's now, but I still can't bring myself to enjoy the newer ones.

Yeah, and what if those people were ninjas!

Oh man, that is the funniest thing I have read in a WHILE.

On a more somber note, everything I read on every forum I post and lurk on seems to point to the same thing: Even if GM does bring back a Camaro, it won't sell and will be axed yet again due to poor sales/bad marketing. GM has to hit a home run with the Camaro launch...anything less won't capture enough of Mustang's market share to keep it going.

How many of those incentives apply to new 2005 models? None?

I'm fairly sure, at least in GM's case, that most if not all of the incentives out there, including "lock 'n' roll", can only be used for the purchase of overstock 2004 models.

Who wants to buy those when the '05's are either here or on the way?

Lastly, of the '05's that are available on dealer's lots; how many don't have MARKET DEMAND mark-ups on top of MSRP and Dealer Prep?

It really should be no surprise to anyone. :think:


You really should wake up, GM has rebates on nearly every car and truck out there, including 05's. The CTS, the Malibu, the GP, the new LaCrosse, the new G6, yep, all have friggin rebates on them!

Here let me quote you from something in september so you dont start saying gm just started this....

"General Motors Corp., coming off a third straight month of declining sales, added $500 to $1,000 in cash incentives on most 2005 model year vehicles Wednesday, as the world's largest automaker tries to spark a late-year rally.

GM's cash rebates on most 2005 models now range between $500 and $3,500, spokeswoman Deborah Silverman said. That includes $1,500 on most full-size pickups and sport utility vehicles.

Financing a vehicle through the company's finance arm, General Motors Acceptance Corp., can get the customer another $500 to $1,500 in "bonus cash." The amount varies by region.

The new deals are good through Sept. 30.

"The program is not dramatically different from last month," Silverman said.

GM still is offering cash rebates of $5,000 on most 2004 trucks and sport utility vehicles and $4,000 on most cars."

There ya go bud.

, and kept the Solstice alive long enough to see daylight (it would have surely died otherwise).



I think GM made a mistake here. A Mustang competitor with the potential for 100,000 units should have been brought to market before a niche market 20,000 unit Miata competitor.

One thing GM needs to remember-build what the customer wants (especially in the affordable price range) and be flexible enough to do it quickly. The Nomad might be a good example. I think Ford and Chrysler might be caught off guard if it was produced. It could be a segment buster, but GM continues on with the hhr instead.

Forming a skunkworks for a Camaro would be from someone a little lower on the food chain.
could that person be THE FATHER?

He has greased the skids for the Cobalt to be as good as it is (he's responsible for getting the extra cash for the interior)...

Forget about the interior. The suspension setup on the Cobalt was cribbed from the soon-to-die 4th generation Golf/Jetta - car that weren't all-time great handlers. Even VW is turning away from torsion beams, so the 5th generation Golf/Jetta has a multilink rear-end.

It's no wonder that Opel wants nothing to do with the Cobalt/Ion's Delta platform. Does anyone else see shades of J-car here?

...cut though the excuses to get the GTO here...

...where it flopped for plenty of good reasons.

...and kept the Solstice alive long enough to see daylight (it would have surely died otherwise).

Let's hope that the final product is "fully engineered." The C&D report on the Solstice "mules" made me wonder whether the finished Solstice could seat a fullsized human being...or if the top would be half-way easy to use...or more weatherproof than a 40-year old Triumph....or if the Solstice would even have a trunk worthy of the name.