No SVT's for '05. V10 SVT Cobra for '06?

http://www.detnews.com/2003/autosinsider/0311/23/b02-332341.htm

Here's a pic of the 590 horse V10 motor BTW.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/2003/naias/ford.427/ford.427.eng.500.jpg

Ok, no where on here did it say V10 for the Cobra. I'm guessing you got that from "new platform". They're simply stating that it'll be a new generation of Mustang. That picture of the V10 you posted is from the Ford Forty-Nine concept.

Looks like GM will beat the Mustang in '05.

GTO > '05 Stang GT

Originally posted by Z284ever
Here's a pic of the 590 horse V10 motor BTW.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/2003/naias/ford.427/ford.427.eng.500.jpg

Good God - I hope the spark plugs are attainable from the bottom of that thing!

Originally posted by SuperDave479
Ok, no where on here did it say V10 for the Cobra. I'm guessing you got that from "new platform". They're simply stating that it'll be a new generation of Mustang. That picture of the V10 you posted is from the Ford Forty-Nine concept.

From here:

"Other possibilities include supercharged versions of the Mercury Marauder and Lincoln Navigator, a Mustang with a V-10 and a turbocharged Focus"

And that's the 427 Concept...not the Forty-Nine.

Originally posted by Z28x
Looks like GM will beat the Mustang in '05.

GTO > '05 Stang GT

Most likely ,assuming there's no 350+hp BOSS or Mach-1 and the GTO gets a 400hp Ls-6. Still too early to tell since we don't know the "complete" or planned lineup for 05. I hope it is more than just GT and v6.

From article:
John Coletti, SVT's chief engineer, said the 2006 Lightning will be powered by an engine similar to the one featured in the 500-horsepower Ford GT, which debuts next year.

Other possibilities include supercharged versions of the Mercury Marauder and Lincoln Navigator, a Mustang with a V-10 and a turbocharged Focus.


V10 mustang= possible Shelby or Cobra R me thinks. Wouldn't a v10 put the Cobra past $40k? A blown 5.4 sounds like a cheaper solution and more fitting for the Cobra. Let the more pricier models (shelby or R) get the v10 (btw: where's this v10 info coming from other than article??)

Good to hear the Marauder will get blown. That's long overdue. About time the focus got turbocharged. Blown Navi sounds interesting. Hopefully the Ls will have a blower thrown into the mix as well cause the 3.9L v8 is too damn small for such a large car.

Overall, good news:bow:.

Originally posted by Z284ever
From here:

"Other possibilities include supercharged versions of the Mercury Marauder and Lincoln Navigator, a Mustang with a V-10 and a turbocharged Focus"

And that's the 427 Concept...not the Forty-Nine.

The 427 was a very sweet looking ride. Here's a shot of it from the Dallas Auto Show.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/68121662/68121998sqIKfa

Originally posted by Z284ever
Here's a pic of the 590 horse V10 motor BTW.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/2003/naias/ford.427/ford.427.eng.500.jpg

Man, that engine sho is purdy:metal:.

Another shot
http://mustangs.bradbarnett.net/concept/427/4.jpg

These are pics from the 427 concept a while back for those that are wondering.

Don't remember back when the 427 debuted, but wasn't there talks/rumors of a possible v10 Mustang back then?

I still think this engine (if it does in fact goes into a Mustang) will be reserved for high priced Cobra R's or Shelby's. If the regular Cobra comes in at 500hp, any guess's on a v10 or Cobra R? The 590hp rating on this v10 makes it a perfect candidate for a killer R/Shelby or even Ford GT (if they decide to keep it past 2007).

Originally posted by RiceEating5.0



V10 mustang= possible Shelby or Cobra R me thinks. Wouldn't a v10 put the Cobra past $40k? A blown 5.4 sounds like a cheaper solution and more fitting for the Cobra. Let the more pricier models (shelby or R) get the v10 (btw: where's this v10 info coming from other than article??)



Proud Pony ought to weigh in on this, but I believe the V10 is both cheaper and lighter than the blown 5.4.

Originally posted by Z284ever
Proud Pony ought to weigh in on this, but I believe the V10 is both cheaper and lighter than the blown 5.4.

It is in fact lighter than the blown 5.4. I remember reading that a while back. It may even be smaller dimension wise.

Question is cost. I'd be interested to see a price comparo (or guestimates) between it and the S/c 5.4. Then again, a blown 500hp Dohc 5.4 isn't exactly "cheap";). It could very well cost more than that N/A 427ci v10.

A one off Mustang V10 has already been built. Motor Trend got to drive it a few months back. Here is the text of the article:



American V-8 Power: Ford Mustang Boss 350 V-10
Exclusive Test: Whatever you think you see, this car doesn't exist

By Jack Keebler
Photography by David Freers
Motor Trend
Who says a V-8 is the only engine choice for an affordable car that runs 0-60 mph in under 4.5 seconds? Well, nearly any American powertrain engineer will, though the folks at Mitsubishi and Subaru have had a lot to say about that lately. But what would you get if you started with one company's tried-and-true 4.6-liter/305-horsepower DOHC V-8 residing in a used-up test car destined for the crusher, then added a vivid imagination, some serious know-how, a deep parts bin, a stray company credit card, a tanker load of midnight oil, and, oh yeah, two extra cylinders?

Answer: one of the quickest Mustangs ever built within the walls of Ford Motor Company.


If you do the math, this all-aluminum, DOHC V-10 based on the current Modular 4.6 comes out to be just a smidgen under 351 cubic inches. That's why this silver rocket-launcher proudly and appropriately wears Boss 351 decals in the best '71 Mustang tradition. On a chassis dynamometer, its clandestine motor is said to deliver 430 horsepower and 405 lb-ft of torque to the rear wheels. Given the instrumented results from a late-evening test session, as well as the pair of long black tire stripes we left behind, we have no reason to doubt those numbers.

This Xstang and its V-10 engine are so secret and politically charged that the advanced-powertrain engineers and the Ford (in this case, not so) public-relations person who slipped us onto the company's remote Romeo, Michigan, proving ground insisted they remain anonymous. That's not to say Ford brass is completely unaware that this car and engine were built.

According to these same sources, Chris Theodore, vice president of North American product development; J Mays, vice president of design; Neil Ressler, retired Ford Motor Co. chief technical officer (now consulting on the GT project); and even William Clay Ford Jr., chairman and CEO, have all experienced a dose of eyeball-flattening V-10 thrust (Bill Ford's enthusiastic comment is too colorful to quote here). And J Mays liked this engine configuration so much he wrapped a whole car around it. Mays demonstrated Ford's future-sedan design vocabulary with the 427 Concept, which appeared at the North American International Automobile Show in Detroit this past January. That sedan's V-10 was a rumbling 7.0-liter DOHC design running high-flow Cobra-R-based cylinder heads.

Why did a handful of rogue engineers at Ford Powertrain build these V-10 engines? Simple: They're car freaks, just like us. "You could call it an unfunded research project," offers one of the covert operators, "which can get expensive when you're on your third T56 manual trans, fifth clutch, second nine-inch rear axle, and third set of rear tires."

Indeed, this research project's propensity to gobble driveline pieces is an accounting department's worst nightmare. There's simply no column on any Ford corporate spreadsheet headed "351 V-10" or "V-10 Mustang" project. There are no extra dollars to do the full, official development or manufacturing program needed to put this engine into volume production, either. Ford's SVT/SVE and the Ford Racing shops had nothing to do with it, and this engine is in no way related to the 6.8-liter/310-horsepower SOHC Triton V-10 used in F-250 pickups.


Fortunately, when you work at a major automaker, the parts bin is exceptionally large, and important stray pieces are floating around if you know where to scrounge. This V-10's pistons, valves, and connecting rods are all shared with the 32-valve 4.6-liter Modular V-8. The camshafts, of course, are custom, but they use the same grind profile as the V-8.

Still, some things had to be fabricated outside of Ford or on the engineers' own time. For example, the cylinder heads and block are special castings. The oil pan, intake manifold, and 54-degree crank also are one-offs. Fortunately, the accessory belt-drive system is another component borrowed directly from the Modular V-8 family. Since there's no Ford computer software or electronic hardware for a V-10 of this type, this 351 takes its signals from two blinking dash-mounted control units that run each five-hole cylinder bank independently.

They do a good job of it--most of the time: During a hard deceleration run for the camera, the engine stumbled and quit once. Otherwise, it ran as smoothly as any high-performance production piece approved by the Blue Oval. And then, there's that noise. The handcrafted V-10 sounds wonderful, firing through two Borla mufflers, two more Dynamax muffs, and 2.5-inch tail pipes. Its voice somewhat reminds us of a big-bore Italian V-12's, particularly the bass notes issued up when you get heavy into the pedal. And the burble in no way resembles the vacuum-cleaner-like hiss of the early Viper's V-10. Sometimes things just work out, though two fewer mufflers would be fine by us.

Our test numbers barely reflect the acceleration on tap from this no-name engine-development mule. The BFGoodrich P295/35ZR18 Comp T/As on Saleen wheels were completely overwhelmed by the V-10's surging Mississippi of torque. On our first two acceleration runs, the rubber went up in smoke--in first, second, and third gears. It's an unsettling--but big-time fun--feeling to be spooling rear tires and yawing slightly sideways at better than 80 mph

After we realized that any spin at launch was just burning down the tires and leaving them unhooked until the top of third gear, we tried several frustrating low-rev launches. No good. So the rear tire pressures were dropped significantly to give the contact patches a wider bite. That, of course, added a bit of steering and braking drama at the top of our acceleration runs (about 120 mph) with the end of the guardrail zooming up like a quarter-mile-long can opener.


Finally, we scrabbled out a still-traction-limited 4.4-second blast to 60 and a 12.88/114.44 quarter-mile run. That beats the solid 4.8 to 60 and 13.01 at 110.69 we recently achieved driving an '03 SVT Cobra with the supercharged 4.6. We're confident that, with a set of drag slicks, sub-four-second runs to 60, a quarter in the low 12s, and a warped driveshaft are all possible. Perhaps another time.

The chances of this V-10 ever seeing the light of day resemble that of an Anna Nicole Smith presidential bid. At one time, the engine reportedly had a shot at slipping into the back of the exotic Ford GT. But the cool heads at SVT wisely went with a well-proven 5.4-liter V-8 and a supercharger. The original Ford GT was always V-8-powered, anyway, so it all made sense. Still, the tiny stealth team working on the V-10 believes it never got a clear opportunity to understand the GT's development timing and fairly bid for the job.

On this impassioned underground team's behalf, we can say its backdoor Boss delivers solid muscle, packages neatly into the Mustang's engine bay, and sounds badass. Our short experience behind the wheel indicates the engine's all-aluminum mass doesn't upset the car's basic balance much, either. We hammered the gas pedal, as did a long string of Ford test pilots, shredding tires, frying clutches, shattering pinions, and trashing three of the toughest manual gearboxes available for a street car.

Why? Because--in the very best Woodward Avenue tradition--that's the way it's done in Detroit, baby.

Originally posted by Z284ever
Here's a pic of the 590 horse V10 motor BTW.

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/2003/naias/ford.427/ford.427.eng.500.jpg



Looks like a CGI to me.

Originally posted by mako350Z28
Looks like a CGI to me.

It is real, I saw it at the NY auto show

see: http://www.autoweek.com/specials/galleries/427/pages/B07u0511.htm

What's a CGI?

Computer Generated Imagery.

Originally posted by RiceEating5.0
It is in fact lighter than the blown 5.4. I remember reading that a while back. It may even be smaller dimension wise.

.

Got this from a write up on the 427 Concept.

The modern version of the Ford 427 concept’s power plant started off as a cloak and dagger “skunk works” project commissioned by Theodore, who wanted to know if it was feasible to craft an all-new, lightweight 427 cubic inch (7.0-liter) engine out of Ford’s highly flexible modular V-8 engine family. Ford’s Powertrain Research & Development answered the call and began working under the radar screen on a limited budget. The result shocked everyone. Remarkably, the engine is almost 70 pounds lighter than the 5.4-liter 32-valve Cobra R engine from the Ford Mustang.

Originally posted by Z284ever
Remarkably, the engine is almost 70 pounds lighter than the 5.4-liter 32-valve Cobra R engine from the Ford Mustang.
They weren't talking about the supercharged version.

Originally posted by AdioSS
They weren't talking about the supercharged version.

Yeah. Tack on the extra weight of the blower, blower piping, and intercooler, and you're talking about an engine that could easily be 100+lbs lighter than an iron block S/c 5.4. I'm assuming the S/c 5.4 going into the L/Cobra would have an iron block to cut cost in place of the GT's aluminum one.

That's a lot of weight. Cost and feasibility though.... That may be the deciding factor. Seems like Ford has a 500+ capable S/c'ed 5.4 ALREADY on hand. Will they go through the trouble of adding a performance v10??? Is it REALLY needed?

Neil, thanks for spelling that out.

Originally posted by RiceEating5.0
Yeah. Tack on the extra weight of the blower, blower piping, and intercooler, and you're talking about an engine that could easily be 100+lbs lighter than an iron block S/c 5.4. I'm assuming the S/c 5.4 going into the L/Cobra would have an iron block to cut cost in place of the GT's aluminum one.




I'd bet it's substantially more than 100 lbs. I thought the cast iron block...alone...cost about a hundred pounds over the aluminum block.

Now subtract the blower, intercooler and associated plumbing.

Originally posted by Z284ever
I'd bet it's substantially more than 100 lbs. I thought the cast iron block...alone...cost about a hundred pounds over the aluminum block.


I was being conservative, hence the 100+:D. The difference could easily be as much 200lbs or maybe even more.

The blown 5.4 is one heavy motor. Ditching the engine alone could make the car a good bit lighter. I'm not suprised that the GT weighs around 3300lbs even with extensive use of aluminum, space frame, and composite materials. A lighter more powerful v10 like the 427ci example used in the 427 concept would do wonders.

The V10 is an image booster, then again I think Viper V10 and think "tractor". Where did the signature Mustang sound go? :yuck:

John Coletti, SVT's chief engineer, said the 2006 Lightning will be powered by an engine similar to the one featured in the 500-horsepower Ford GT, which debuts next year.
Gee, didn't someone here say this a few weeks ago? ;)


Ford's next scheduled model year for SVT products will be 2006. But its lineup - the Mustang Cobra and F-150 Lightning - will be based on new platforms and offer increased levels of performance.

Basically it means that there won't be any SVO products till at least 4 months into the 2005 model year (when they can be called 2006s).

Not a big issue considering SVT is a very, very small unit and they have been given a pretty hefty amount of work (new Lightning & a new Mustang at the same time). Seems they got alittle bogged down.

Also, SVT doesn't do Lincoln-Mercury.

That's Ford's Performance Group. FPG did Marauder & the Mach1. FPG includes Ford's aftermarket arm, Ford Racing, Ford Performance Parts, SVT (it's own organization within FPG) and Performance vehicles outside SVT.

Originally posted by guionM

Not a big issue considering SVT is a very, very small unit and they have been given a pretty hefty amount of work (new Lightning & a new Mustang at the same time). Seems they got alittle bogged down.

Also, SVT doesn't do Lincoln-Mercury.



You're right guion. It's a big job..for a small group...to completely re-engineer 2 all new platforms to SVT specs. No surprise that they're skipping a year.

I wonder though, if the SRT-4 put the SVT Focus out of business. SVT Focus, fell short of sales expectations.....SRT-4 sold SEVERAL TIMES sales expectations! I guess a 14 sec. flat 1/4 mile is the new benchmark in this niche.
I thought SVT had a 220 horse turbo Focus under developement, do we know what's going to happen with that?.

You're also right about SVT and Lincoln Mercury. But Coletti and his crew will leave the SVT developed S/C 4.6 Cobra motor on the parts shelf for Marauder to use.

Originally posted by Z284ever
I wonder though, if the SRT-4 put the SVT Focus out of business. SVT Focus, fell short of sales expectations.....SRT-4 sold SEVERAL TIMES sales expectations! I guess a 14 sec. flat 1/4 mile is the new benchmark in this niche.
I thought SVT had a 220 horse turbo Focus under developement, do we know what's going to happen with that?
I believe you're talking about the Europe-only Focus RS (AWD turbo ralleye car)
You're also right about SVT and Lincoln Mercury. But Coletti and his crew will leave the SVT developed S/C 4.6 Cobra motor on the parts shelf for Marauder to use.
I thought they were going to quit making the Marauder after next year? If they get a more powerful motor (the Navigator's NA 5.4L DOHC would do wonders, but a supercharged version would kick ass!) it would definitely be a great car to keep around.

Originally posted by AdioSS
I believe you're talking about the Europe-only Focus RS (AWD turbo ralleye car)

I thought they were going to quit making the Marauder after next year? If they get a more powerful motor (the Navigator's NA 5.4L DOHC would do wonders, but a supercharged version would kick ass!) it would definitely be a great car to keep around.

The Focus RS was never intended for North America. I think it was priced well north of $30,000.

SVT was working on a 220 hp turbo Focus for release here in '04/'05. They were reportedly using a Mazda turbo motor for that car.

It seems the Marauder has gotten a reprieve from the executioner. It's expected to get the '03/'04 SC Cobra motor in '05.

I don't know if it's just me...but I've probably seen more Marauders on the street in the past month than I have since they were released.

The V10 is an image booster, then again I think Viper V10 and think "tractor". Where did the signature Mustang sound go?

AMEN to that. I hate the way Vipers sound... and would much prefer the sound of a V8 in a Mustang.

The V10 powerplant jives with the ~$43K MSRP I've been hearing on the Ford sites.