I installed koni sa front shocks ( set about half way), bilstien hd rear shocks and a st 35mm front sway bar about 2 weeks ago.

Now the car feels better, but I'm not really impressed with it, I was expecting a holy $hit difference and I just don't feel it. To me the car just feels like I think it should have from the factory.

I wasn't expecting a set of shocks and a sway bar to turn my fbody into a zo6, but my friend has a 150,000 mile civic with a set of kyb struts and eibach springs and his car feels like it handles much better than my car.

Before you guys get all nuts because this is totally subjective let me say that my car is 99% street driven and feel is most important to me.

Is there any other mods I can do that will dramatically affect the cars feel or is the problem that it feels the same going through a turn a 50mph now as it did at 40mph before? Anyone else have a similar experience?

 

Uhh.... What are you doing for the other 1% of driving?

I did these same mods last spring and was astounded by the difference. However, the car was mostly used for autocross and tracking. Other than embarrassing the odd ricer on exit ramps on the way home from events, I never could come close to testing the capability of the car on the street.

Since you admit that the car should "feel" like it handles better that it does, what "feel" are you looking for? The fact of the matter is that dramatic handing improvements should result in less drama for the occupants, not more... The difference should be the speed at which the drama begins....

Remember, you will never get an f-body to "feel" like a Honda and you should not want it to. fwd versus rwd, a huge weight difference and a very different torque curve will all ensure that those cars never feel the same, even if they can take the skidpad at the same speed.

 

I was just trying to say that it is a street car and my spend 1% of its life on a track.

I guess what I was expecting was that feeling of speed around a corner like when you ride a roller coaster. I know I know it won't be anywhere near that dramatic, but roller coasters are fun right

 

Well, on the track, that is exactly how the car should feel.

Turn-in should be crisp with the front bar and transitions should be very, very quick.

What isn't it doing?

 

Its not that it isn't doing what I want it to. I am new to the world of handling. All I am trying to say is that if I went around a corner before at 40mph I felt on the verge of loosing control, now if I go around the same corner at 40mph It feels like no big deal. It feels like I am going slower when I know I am going faster. Is this normal? Will it ever get to the point where it feels faster or will it keep feeling slower the more I improve the suspension.

I know I probably sound stupid asking these questions, but I am used to going faster in a straight line. When you go from a 14.2@98 to a 13.4@103 in the 1/4 mile it feels faster not slower.
That is what I was expecting from handling mods also. I expected to go faster around a corner, but I didn't expect it to feel slower.

 

Shocks alone are not going to give you that feeling. Tires and bushings will help. I run mu Koni's on full soft on the street, still a very harsh ride, but for autocorssing, I adjust the shocks depending if its for Asphalt or Concrete surface . Also a good "R" compound tire( not for street use) like Hoosier or Kumo will make a world of difference.

 

So is it accurate to say that to get the feeling I am looking for I need to build a full on, too stiff for the street, race car?

 

Drive your stock car around a turn at 40 and it feels like you are about to loose it, do some suspension work and you get the same feeling at 50, get rid of the camaro and step into a porsche or other exotic and you wont get the same feeling until say 70.

now go drive an econobox and get the same feeling like you are going to loose it at 30.

Ride is a whole nother story.

the difference between our cars and say a porsche (general rule here) is the porsche will not rattle your teeth during normal driving and take the turn at 70, in order to take the turn at 60 in our car our teeth will rattle compared to the porsche.

read the reviews of the 84 corvette when it came out. i think they got to 1g on the skidpad, but the ride was considered unbearable.

So in a nutshell, you are not supposed to feel a kick in the pants.

 

also, tires and every component have a lot to do with it. the key is to get a balance. a balance between ride and handling, and a balance so that you dont have excessive unersteer or oversteer.

my first experience with suspension modifications was on my 77 celica in 82. i put addco sways (thicker in front, and one in back where none existed), bilstein shocks and phoenix stahflex tires. on a turn that i could only manage say 30 on and if pushed too hard an oversteer induced spin i was able to take at say 45-50 with a solid feeling, and grip on all four wheels.

when i went from an 85 rx7 to my 90 rx7 convertible, the independant rear suspension of the 90 was more balanced. Mazda used the same bridgestones Porsche on the 911/930 turbo. At first i was afraid to really push the car because the tires had more grip than the suspension - or so i thought. i was afraid that when the tires would finally go in what was then a brand new car i would be going too fast to correct it, and with no roof i didnt want to roll the car.

when i replaced the tires i put on a level less tire that made some noise when i was approaching the limit. what i gave up in performance i made up in peace of mind.

bottom line, as handling gets better the easier it is to take turns fast. then get the balance between comfort and handling.

 

A lot of scenarios could be possible here. I would get a local f-body specialist, if you have a shop or autox/rr enthusiast available to you locally, to tune your set-up for you. Sam Strano, our resident autox champ, is great on the phone http://www.stranoparts.com
for this kind of input.

A big question here is what kind of springs you are using? The choice of spring to work with the shocks is going to hugely affect the way the car handles.

What is your alignment? I would have that redone after installing new suspension components. If you have a stock alignment (no alignment!) certainly you would not fully experience what the car is now capable of.

Did you also change your bushings? Worn out stock bushings are not going to help your new toys work. You need some good poly like the Energy Suspension line.

The drag racin' thing is very different than the turning left and right thing and it may take an autox or two for you to start getting the "feel." Strano would be the first to say that you do not need a full on harsh riding race set-up to realize the benefits of f-body handling. Even my road race car is not overly stiff feeling. It is as soft as I can get away with and still stick to the ground. Drag race set-ups are soft, so sure, your new set-up may feel stiff to you.

Personally I encourage people to do some autox or track schools in their stock set-ups so they can know how that feels, and how it feels different when they have upgraded their suspension. You can do a lot in our cars in the stock form by just upgrading to a stickier tire. How much you "feel" on the street depends on your driving skills and how connected you are to your car. I call this the "buttometer," some folks call it seat of the pants feel.

 

Well, if you want the car to feel stiffer, turn the shocks up. That's why they are adjustable. Call me crazy, but you can go around the same corner quicker than before without it feeling faster,*that* is a BIG difference. I'm not sure what more you want, isn't the idea to go around the corners faster with more control? The control is why you "feel" like you are going slower. There is much less unsettling movement.

As for you Honda. It is smaller, which helps (like a go-cart vs. a NASCAR stocker). But, my hunch is his "feels" faster because it's more punishing, harsher. If you want to go that, you need only add heavy springs. However when cars feel like that it's because they are moving around more because the suspension is not sucking up road imperfections.......

 

1LE's ride more stiffly than do non-1LE cars becuase the spring rates are some 70 lb/in. stiffer in front and anywhere from about 20-70 lb/in in the rear. This is one reason when I ordered my car I decided to get a non-1LE car. Having driven both lots of both, I prefer the softer springs for most uses, and a bigger front bar will control the roll. YMMV.

I run my Koni's about 4 sweeps off hard in front and the car is not at all harsh. It is when you get to or very near full stiff. I suspect what you are feeling is the spring rate difference.

 

What you said is true about the ride, my 00 Camaro's ride is much different than the 97 1LE.

 

Heh, just take a step back and think what your saying..

You are complaining that now, you are able to go faster, with less drama and more control. (ie feels like I'm going slower, but the car is going thru the turns faster!)


But your goal is go the same speed as before, but with more drama and less control (ie feels like I'm going faster, but the car is going thru the turns at the same speed!)

 

That's what I was trying to say in a much more roundabout way.