Getting dtc code 36 after car warms up
02-16-2018, 04:28 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 57
Getting dtc code 36 after car warms up
First not sure if my signature is working but it's a 1995 camaro z28 with long tubes y pipe cold air intake, it has no cats, it has a newer opti, coil, and icm, new o2 sensors, car was running perfect then as of yesterday throwing code 36, and egr code but the egr has been deleted and been tuned out, I bought the car with the icm,opti, and coil just put on and I have only put 800 miles on car, when it's cold runs perfect, then driving while coming to a stop it trys to die and pulling into parking spot it did die, the error code says high res or low res voltage problem, I unplugged MAP sensor to get the car home and it ran rough but did not try to die, I have everything to scan and post results just need to know when to scan when it's cold or when the car warms up and acts up and it has to be warm like running for 30 plus mins to act up and car is not running hot or any thing stays around 195 to 200, I have tried reading other post about this issue and can't pin down what problem is, as its not backfiring and when accelerating it runs fine and when in park or neutral at a stand still the car won' die only if I am actually driving and only has died when coming to basically complete stop.
02-16-2018, 04:34 PM
#2
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 57
Re: Getting dtc code 36 after car warms up
First not sure if my signature is working but it's a 1995 camaro z28 with long tubes y pipe cold air intake, it has no cats, it has a newer opti, coil, and icm, new o2 sensors, car was running perfect then as of yesterday throwing code 36, and egr code but the egr has been deleted and been tuned out, I bought the car with the icm,opti, and coil just put on and I have only put 800 miles on car, when it's cold runs perfect, then driving while coming to a stop it trys to die and pulling into parking spot it did die, the error code says high res or low res voltage problem, I unplugged MAP sensor to get the car home and it ran rough but did not try to die, I have everything to scan and post results just need to know when to scan when it's cold or when the car warms up and acts up and it has to be warm like running for 30 plus mins to act up and car is not running hot or any thing stays around 195 to 200, I have tried reading other post about this issue and can't pin down what problem is, as its not backfiring and when accelerating it runs fine and when in park or neutral at a stand still the car won' die only if I am actually driving and only has died when coming to basically complete stop.
02-16-2018, 08:00 PM
#3
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 70,642
Re: Getting dtc code 36 after car warms up
What are you logging with? Scan9495 is about the best software currently.
What brand is the Opti? Could be heat soak of the optical module in the Opti. Or the ICM, but that wouldn't set DTC 36.
What brand is the Opti? Could be heat soak of the optical module in the Opti. Or the ICM, but that wouldn't set DTC 36.
02-16-2018, 10:11 PM
#4
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 57
Re: Getting dtc code 36 after car warms up
the brand I am unsure of but I know it is not like a top of the line msd nor a extremely crappy one, it like a middle of the road one the guy I bought it from said it cost him about 150 bucks, and the guy I bought it from knows his stuff he said when he got the car it was misfiring really badly so he replaced coil ICM and opti, and like I said I have only put 800 miles since the parts have been replaced, so when I took the MAP out and I cleaned it up car seemed to run good again but I didn' have time to scan it yet nor really drive it much, yeah I use the scan software you stated. Could it be the o2 sensors I recently found out the shop that changed my old ones replaced it with a crappy brand, I have checked all the wires and connections that I can get to with out taking a bunch of stuff off and they all appear to be fine and I know my MAP sensor is likely the stock one from a motor that was put in 2009, I ran a short scan when car was acting up and another when the car was cold the only thing I can tell by looking at it is my MAP voltage dropped well below the value of 1 in the scan program and the o2 sensors seemed to not go up and down like crazy when I first replace them, well the values, I am gonna upload the scans tommorrow if you can take a look that would be very helpful, it just confusing me because the car before it heats up runs excellent, and the gentleman I bought car from said when the opti was going out the car ran badly all the time
02-16-2018, 11:42 PM
#5
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 70,642
Re: Getting dtc code 36 after car warms up
$150 is sort of close to bottom line, just a bit above the cheap eBay Chinese ripoffs. And the MSD is nothing but one problem after the other. Some of both of those are faulty right out of the box. Others have such cheap optical modules that the circuit boards have intermittent contacts when they heat up. GaryDoug, the author of Scan9495 has been able to repair the circuit board.
I'll take a look at your logs. If you have one running OK, and one where it's hot and running poorly, it would be good.
I'll take a look at your logs. If you have one running OK, and one where it's hot and running poorly, it would be good.
02-19-2018, 04:43 PM
#9
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 70,642
Re: Getting dtc code 36 after car warms up
The two "running poor" (Feb14) files are only with the car sitting still, at idle, in neutral, and blipping the throttle once in a while. Does not seem to replicate the problem you described, which is stall or near stall when coming to a stop.
MAP is dropping below 1 Volt, only after you snapped the throttle closed, while RPM remains high. Again, normal, because the cylinders are moving up and down very fast, trying to pull a lot of air in, and the throttle blades are closed, creating a very high vacuum in the manifold, which means very low MAP. As RPM increases, IAC opens up to prevent the engine from stalling in the event the throttle blades suddenly close. Maybe the IAC is not responding quite fast enough to the very brief blips of the throttle. But again, what you are doing in no way simulates "normal" driving on the road.
First file is very short, less than one minute, idling in neutral, with and occasional very brief blip of the throttle. At one point, over a period of one second, a few seconds after you blipped the throttle, the RPM does drop, to a low of 593 RPM vs. a target idle of 650 RPM. Everything looks fairly normal.... engine drops below the target RPM, the IAC opens up to correct, idle returns to target, and all this happens in the matter of less than 1 second. Is that the magnitude of the "stall" that you are seeing? There is evidence that both banks of the engine hang rich leading up to the sudden drop in RPM, so I'll keep looking for the cause of that. That probably wouldn't happen in an actual driving situation, since the decel fuel cutoff would occur to prevent a rich condition, until RPM dropped to 1200-1300 RPM.
Second file is only 25 seconds, sitting at idle, in neutral, vehicle not moving, and not even a blip of the throttle. Max deviation of a single cell from the target idle speed is 28 RPM, to a low of 622 RPM vs. target of 650 RPM. From my experience, RPM variations of +/- 25 RPM from target idle speed is fairly normal.
Maybe you need to actually drive the car, come to a stop, etc., because I just don't see evidence of a stall or even an attempt to stall in either of those files.
Have you ever cleared the codes to get rid of the DTC 36? A good idea before each log, so we can see in the log when the code is setting. Lack of a high resolution pulse signal blinds the PCM to the precise changes in RPM. It gets a single low res pulse from each cylinder, as is approaches TDC. Then it is blind between pulses. The high res pulse tells the PCM if the engine is increasing or decreasing RPM in between low res pulses, and how fast that is happening. Makes the Opti a possible culprit.
MAP is dropping below 1 Volt, only after you snapped the throttle closed, while RPM remains high. Again, normal, because the cylinders are moving up and down very fast, trying to pull a lot of air in, and the throttle blades are closed, creating a very high vacuum in the manifold, which means very low MAP. As RPM increases, IAC opens up to prevent the engine from stalling in the event the throttle blades suddenly close. Maybe the IAC is not responding quite fast enough to the very brief blips of the throttle. But again, what you are doing in no way simulates "normal" driving on the road.
First file is very short, less than one minute, idling in neutral, with and occasional very brief blip of the throttle. At one point, over a period of one second, a few seconds after you blipped the throttle, the RPM does drop, to a low of 593 RPM vs. a target idle of 650 RPM. Everything looks fairly normal.... engine drops below the target RPM, the IAC opens up to correct, idle returns to target, and all this happens in the matter of less than 1 second. Is that the magnitude of the "stall" that you are seeing? There is evidence that both banks of the engine hang rich leading up to the sudden drop in RPM, so I'll keep looking for the cause of that. That probably wouldn't happen in an actual driving situation, since the decel fuel cutoff would occur to prevent a rich condition, until RPM dropped to 1200-1300 RPM.
Second file is only 25 seconds, sitting at idle, in neutral, vehicle not moving, and not even a blip of the throttle. Max deviation of a single cell from the target idle speed is 28 RPM, to a low of 622 RPM vs. target of 650 RPM. From my experience, RPM variations of +/- 25 RPM from target idle speed is fairly normal.
Maybe you need to actually drive the car, come to a stop, etc., because I just don't see evidence of a stall or even an attempt to stall in either of those files.
Have you ever cleared the codes to get rid of the DTC 36? A good idea before each log, so we can see in the log when the code is setting. Lack of a high resolution pulse signal blinds the PCM to the precise changes in RPM. It gets a single low res pulse from each cylinder, as is approaches TDC. Then it is blind between pulses. The high res pulse tells the PCM if the engine is increasing or decreasing RPM in between low res pulses, and how fast that is happening. Makes the Opti a possible culprit.
02-19-2018, 05:35 PM
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 57
Re: Getting dtc code 36 after car warms up
The two "running poor" (Feb14) files are only with the car sitting still, at idle, in neutral, and blipping the throttle once in a while. Does not seem to replicate the problem you described, which is stall or near stall when coming to a stop.
MAP is dropping below 1 Volt, only after you snapped the throttle closed, while RPM remains high. Again, normal, because the cylinders are moving up and down very fast, trying to pull a lot of air in, and the throttle blades are closed, creating a very high vacuum in the manifold, which means very low MAP. As RPM increases, IAC opens up to prevent the engine from stalling in the event the throttle blades suddenly close. Maybe the IAC is not responding quite fast enough to the very brief blips of the throttle. But again, what you are doing in no way simulates "normal" driving on the road.
First file is very short, less than one minute, idling in neutral, with and occasional very brief blip of the throttle. At one point, over a period of one second, a few seconds after you blipped the throttle, the RPM does drop, to a low of 593 RPM vs. a target idle of 650 RPM. Everything looks fairly normal.... engine drops below the target RPM, the IAC opens up to correct, idle returns to target, and all this happens in the matter of less than 1 second. Is that the magnitude of the "stall" that you are seeing? There is evidence that both banks of the engine hang rich leading up to the sudden drop in RPM, so I'll keep looking for the cause of that. That probably wouldn't happen in an actual driving situation, since the decel fuel cutoff would occur to prevent a rich condition, until RPM dropped to 1200-1300 RPM.
Second file is only 25 seconds, sitting at idle, in neutral, vehicle not moving, and not even a blip of the throttle. Max deviation of a single cell from the target idle speed is 28 RPM, to a low of 622 RPM vs. target of 650 RPM. From my experience, RPM variations of +/- 25 RPM from target idle speed is fairly normal.
Maybe you need to actually drive the car, come to a stop, etc., because I just don't see evidence of a stall or even an attempt to stall in either of those files.
Have you ever cleared the codes to get rid of the DTC 36? A good idea before each log, so we can see in the log when the code is setting. Lack of a high resolution pulse signal blinds the PCM to the precise changes in RPM. It gets a single low res pulse from each cylinder, as is approaches TDC. Then it is blind between pulses. The high res pulse tells the PCM if the engine is increasing or decreasing RPM in between low res pulses, and how fast that is happening. Makes the Opti a possible culprit.
MAP is dropping below 1 Volt, only after you snapped the throttle closed, while RPM remains high. Again, normal, because the cylinders are moving up and down very fast, trying to pull a lot of air in, and the throttle blades are closed, creating a very high vacuum in the manifold, which means very low MAP. As RPM increases, IAC opens up to prevent the engine from stalling in the event the throttle blades suddenly close. Maybe the IAC is not responding quite fast enough to the very brief blips of the throttle. But again, what you are doing in no way simulates "normal" driving on the road.
First file is very short, less than one minute, idling in neutral, with and occasional very brief blip of the throttle. At one point, over a period of one second, a few seconds after you blipped the throttle, the RPM does drop, to a low of 593 RPM vs. a target idle of 650 RPM. Everything looks fairly normal.... engine drops below the target RPM, the IAC opens up to correct, idle returns to target, and all this happens in the matter of less than 1 second. Is that the magnitude of the "stall" that you are seeing? There is evidence that both banks of the engine hang rich leading up to the sudden drop in RPM, so I'll keep looking for the cause of that. That probably wouldn't happen in an actual driving situation, since the decel fuel cutoff would occur to prevent a rich condition, until RPM dropped to 1200-1300 RPM.
Second file is only 25 seconds, sitting at idle, in neutral, vehicle not moving, and not even a blip of the throttle. Max deviation of a single cell from the target idle speed is 28 RPM, to a low of 622 RPM vs. target of 650 RPM. From my experience, RPM variations of +/- 25 RPM from target idle speed is fairly normal.
Maybe you need to actually drive the car, come to a stop, etc., because I just don't see evidence of a stall or even an attempt to stall in either of those files.
Have you ever cleared the codes to get rid of the DTC 36? A good idea before each log, so we can see in the log when the code is setting. Lack of a high resolution pulse signal blinds the PCM to the precise changes in RPM. It gets a single low res pulse from each cylinder, as is approaches TDC. Then it is blind between pulses. The high res pulse tells the PCM if the engine is increasing or decreasing RPM in between low res pulses, and how fast that is happening. Makes the Opti a possible culprit.
02-19-2018, 05:41 PM
#11
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 57
Re: Getting dtc code 36 after car warms up
yes you are 100 percent right the test I did were very short the first 2 test were done after driving after I have parked, I had forgotten that I need to replicate the driving conditions when car first threw the code in the next few days I will get you some good test, i will send you a message when I post the better test, i do apolgise as I was in freak out mode when I did the scans as the car had been running with no issues so I panicked, but I will provide you with better data I am gonna just drive the car and scan it after it warms up and see if it acts up, whatever the problem is it doesn' always happen drove the car today with no issues but did notice it did kinda have a gas smell to it
03-03-2018, 07:23 PM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 57
Re: Getting dtc code 36 after car warms up
and to answer your question the wanting to stall is while driving coming to a stop so the low point in idle after I give it gas is not what I was talking about my fault, it when I am coming To a stop the car idle kinda jumps all over the place at low idle I will provide you with good data with next test promise, I should have asked the question better the test I did were to see if the car had any issues that would need the car up badly.
03-08-2018, 10:36 AM
#13
Administrator
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: Hell was full so they sent me to NJ
Posts: 70,642
Re: Getting dtc code 36 after car warms up
DTC 32 - If this code is setting, it has NOT been deleted from the PCM, or was incorrectly deleted from the PCM.
DTC 36 - This code sets if the PCM does not see a high resolution signal from the optical cam position sensor. Specifically, if the PCM sees 40 low resolution pulses (10 revolutions of the crankshaft) with no high resolution pulses being seen, it sets the code. In 10 revolutions of the crankshaft, there should be 1,800 high resolution pulses.
The problem can be caused by an intermittent condition:
- open circuit
- circuit shorted to ground
- defective optical sensor module in the Opti
As I think I explained earlier, the problem can be tied to the temperature of the module in the Opti. GaryDoug has fixed a cheap Chinese Opti that had an intermittent problem with the pulse signals, by finding and resoldering a faulty joint in the module. In that case, he watched the signal disappear when the module reached a certain operating temperature.
It's possible that in checking the Opti harness connector, you improved the contacts for the high resolution signal. Or maybe the current weather conditions are preventing the module from reaching the higher temperature required for the internal solder joint failure to occur. All speculation.
The key here is that in the event the code reappears, the engine will still run. Might cause a misfire, but that's the worse that could happen. At that point, clear the code and see how soon it reappears. If it persists, might need a new Opti.
There is no value in looking at a data log for either of these conditions. We know why the EGR code is setting. There is nothing to see if DTC 36 is not setting.
DTC 36 - This code sets if the PCM does not see a high resolution signal from the optical cam position sensor. Specifically, if the PCM sees 40 low resolution pulses (10 revolutions of the crankshaft) with no high resolution pulses being seen, it sets the code. In 10 revolutions of the crankshaft, there should be 1,800 high resolution pulses.
The problem can be caused by an intermittent condition:
- open circuit
- circuit shorted to ground
- defective optical sensor module in the Opti
As I think I explained earlier, the problem can be tied to the temperature of the module in the Opti. GaryDoug has fixed a cheap Chinese Opti that had an intermittent problem with the pulse signals, by finding and resoldering a faulty joint in the module. In that case, he watched the signal disappear when the module reached a certain operating temperature.
It's possible that in checking the Opti harness connector, you improved the contacts for the high resolution signal. Or maybe the current weather conditions are preventing the module from reaching the higher temperature required for the internal solder joint failure to occur. All speculation.
The key here is that in the event the code reappears, the engine will still run. Might cause a misfire, but that's the worse that could happen. At that point, clear the code and see how soon it reappears. If it persists, might need a new Opti.
There is no value in looking at a data log for either of these conditions. We know why the EGR code is setting. There is nothing to see if DTC 36 is not setting.
Last edited by Injuneer; 03-08-2018 at 10:38 AM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
camz383
LS1 Based Engine Tech
1
06-10-2005 07:08 PM
camz383
LT1 Based Engine Tech
3
06-04-2005 10:54 PM
