Who do you t hink won the election debate?
Registered User
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 521
Steve in Seattle, US debt is 7.1 trillion, Canada debt is 510 billion. That's quite a bit more than 3x times the debt. Even though I'm a numbers guy, sometimes even I wonder which country is doing it the right way. Canada = no deficit, smaller per capita debt, 7 billion trade surplus. USA = complete opposites in all categories...yet has the cheaper living, no GST, etc.
I kind of liked Duceppe since he's more of a province's rights, less of a federal rights person (like myself). Harper is a bit of the same too. I was wondering who Harper reminded me of. JFK is a good one.
Harper does not look 45 years old.
I ROTFLMAO when Martin said to Layton, "Do your handlers tell you to talk all the time?" Layton: "Oh very funny"
....... Who was it that said Layton should dye his mustache brown to look more like Burton Cummings?
NDP has some good ideas but a lot of bad ones too. More investment in windmill technology being one. But I can't support anybody who says that they don't want to pay down the debt and make private MRI's illegal. I remember when he was voted to be the NDP's rep a couple months back he said let's not complain about the amount of taxes we pay but instead be glad we share what we can. The scary thing is, he's an economist.
I figure watching the Bloc speak English like revenge for watching Chretian trying to speak English.
Martin was doing the classic politician trick of not answering the questions and blathering on about whatever. I thought Harper would be more in your face but he was pretty reserved. Martin shouldn't get credit for eliminating the debt. It was increased gas taxes and not indexing the tax brackets all those years that helped him balance the budget. Look at how much cpp and ei have gone up over the last 10 years. We balanced the budget, not him.
About gas taxes. NONE of them had any real ideas about it. Federal gas tax is 10 cents/litre. It was 8.5 cents until 1995 when Martin raised it to help pay off the deficit. (Don't forget we pay GST on the price of gas and on top of the prov gas tax and on top of the fed. gas tax) The deficit has been paid for since 1997, but it's still 10 cents on the pump. The federal government puts 2.5% of gas tax back into roads (over 99% of that spent east of Manitoba). That's why Campbell had to raise BC taxes to pay for the heartland roads.....I want to see the federal government completely axe the federal gas tax and let the provinces handle it. The provinces are the ones paying and building roads. (In the USA, they spend 80% of their gas tax money on roads.) Why take gas tax money in BC, send it to Ottawa where they take their cut, and then return next to nothing? Now they're talking about sending some gas tax and GST money to cities. BS! I say just cut the GST to 5% and axe the fed. gas tax. I don't trust our cities to use the money any wiser. Of course, then there is the Green Party which wants to double the federal gas tax. Hahaha, good luck.
About the military. I think we need something better even though I'm anti-war. Our military is smaller than Iraq's military before that war started up. Iraq is something like 1/3 the size of BC. Our helicopters don't fly, and we bought that submarine from England that doesn't float. The french have 3 times the size of our military. Think about it. France could overthrow Canada and make Quebec the capital.
We currently spend 12.7 billion/year on military. Martin and Layton want to spend a billion/year on child care. Hmmm, 40 million people. About 28 million taxpayers. I'd rather spend that money in health care. Harper wants to increase the size of the military to about 80,000. I think we're in the region of 35-45,000 right now.
About private health care. I think we'd have more access. Some argue that it would take doctors away from public hospitals....but those hospitals could then hire new doctors to take their place.
Wait lists in BC <--- Sad and mad at the same time look at our wait lists. When you think about it, there is no reason there should be waiting lists. If you were told you have to wait a year or more for a knee or hip, would you think about paying for it privately? How about if you needed an MRI. You could wait 6 weeks and get it for free, or you could pay a couple hundred dollars and have it done today. In comparison, there are no waitlists for going dentists or LASIK eye surgeries. And look at how much cheaper LASIK has become. I paid $5,000 back in 1997, now it's $1,000 for the same procedure. Their equipment is top of the line. With public health, we have the rooms, the doctors, the staffing, but we don't use the OR's all the time because it's cheaper not to, even though there are people waiting on waitlists. My dad had to wait 5 months to get surgery for his eye (public system).
A couple of weeks ago, there was a guy in the paper who was in his late 70's and only has one leg. He lost the other fighting in WW2. He needs a new hip but is waiting and waiting and waiting. He offered to pay, but noooo, you're not allowed to do that. So he waits in excrutiating pain. Meanwhile if you're an American, a police officer, a WCB recipient, a politician, or anybody with connections, you go to the head of the waiting list. And whoever was #1 waiting before gets bumped to the bottom of the list. Why? Because somebody else is already scheduled for the next surgery. You can wait until you get to the top of the list over and over and be bumped repeatedly. This is why old people in the link above who have no connections get bumped while people like my police friend got their surgery in a few months. I HATE WAITLISTS! Look at the VI health strike. 4 days of strikes and people who were scheduled for surgery on those days are being told sometime in the late summer they might get the work done.
Overall I think Layton got most of his ideas across, Harper didn't do all that great, but Martin didn't do well at all. So I'd say Harper and Layton were the winners.
I kind of liked Duceppe since he's more of a province's rights, less of a federal rights person (like myself). Harper is a bit of the same too. I was wondering who Harper reminded me of. JFK is a good one.
Harper does not look 45 years old.I ROTFLMAO when Martin said to Layton, "Do your handlers tell you to talk all the time?" Layton: "Oh very funny"
....... Who was it that said Layton should dye his mustache brown to look more like Burton Cummings?NDP has some good ideas but a lot of bad ones too. More investment in windmill technology being one. But I can't support anybody who says that they don't want to pay down the debt and make private MRI's illegal. I remember when he was voted to be the NDP's rep a couple months back he said let's not complain about the amount of taxes we pay but instead be glad we share what we can. The scary thing is, he's an economist.
I figure watching the Bloc speak English like revenge for watching Chretian trying to speak English.
Martin was doing the classic politician trick of not answering the questions and blathering on about whatever. I thought Harper would be more in your face but he was pretty reserved. Martin shouldn't get credit for eliminating the debt. It was increased gas taxes and not indexing the tax brackets all those years that helped him balance the budget. Look at how much cpp and ei have gone up over the last 10 years. We balanced the budget, not him.
About gas taxes. NONE of them had any real ideas about it. Federal gas tax is 10 cents/litre. It was 8.5 cents until 1995 when Martin raised it to help pay off the deficit. (Don't forget we pay GST on the price of gas and on top of the prov gas tax and on top of the fed. gas tax) The deficit has been paid for since 1997, but it's still 10 cents on the pump. The federal government puts 2.5% of gas tax back into roads (over 99% of that spent east of Manitoba). That's why Campbell had to raise BC taxes to pay for the heartland roads.....I want to see the federal government completely axe the federal gas tax and let the provinces handle it. The provinces are the ones paying and building roads. (In the USA, they spend 80% of their gas tax money on roads.) Why take gas tax money in BC, send it to Ottawa where they take their cut, and then return next to nothing? Now they're talking about sending some gas tax and GST money to cities. BS! I say just cut the GST to 5% and axe the fed. gas tax. I don't trust our cities to use the money any wiser. Of course, then there is the Green Party which wants to double the federal gas tax. Hahaha, good luck.
About the military. I think we need something better even though I'm anti-war. Our military is smaller than Iraq's military before that war started up. Iraq is something like 1/3 the size of BC. Our helicopters don't fly, and we bought that submarine from England that doesn't float. The french have 3 times the size of our military. Think about it. France could overthrow Canada and make Quebec the capital.
We currently spend 12.7 billion/year on military. Martin and Layton want to spend a billion/year on child care. Hmmm, 40 million people. About 28 million taxpayers. I'd rather spend that money in health care. Harper wants to increase the size of the military to about 80,000. I think we're in the region of 35-45,000 right now.About private health care. I think we'd have more access. Some argue that it would take doctors away from public hospitals....but those hospitals could then hire new doctors to take their place.
Wait lists in BC <--- Sad and mad at the same time look at our wait lists. When you think about it, there is no reason there should be waiting lists. If you were told you have to wait a year or more for a knee or hip, would you think about paying for it privately? How about if you needed an MRI. You could wait 6 weeks and get it for free, or you could pay a couple hundred dollars and have it done today. In comparison, there are no waitlists for going dentists or LASIK eye surgeries. And look at how much cheaper LASIK has become. I paid $5,000 back in 1997, now it's $1,000 for the same procedure. Their equipment is top of the line. With public health, we have the rooms, the doctors, the staffing, but we don't use the OR's all the time because it's cheaper not to, even though there are people waiting on waitlists. My dad had to wait 5 months to get surgery for his eye (public system).
A couple of weeks ago, there was a guy in the paper who was in his late 70's and only has one leg. He lost the other fighting in WW2. He needs a new hip but is waiting and waiting and waiting. He offered to pay, but noooo, you're not allowed to do that. So he waits in excrutiating pain. Meanwhile if you're an American, a police officer, a WCB recipient, a politician, or anybody with connections, you go to the head of the waiting list. And whoever was #1 waiting before gets bumped to the bottom of the list. Why? Because somebody else is already scheduled for the next surgery. You can wait until you get to the top of the list over and over and be bumped repeatedly. This is why old people in the link above who have no connections get bumped while people like my police friend got their surgery in a few months. I HATE WAITLISTS! Look at the VI health strike. 4 days of strikes and people who were scheduled for surgery on those days are being told sometime in the late summer they might get the work done.
Overall I think Layton got most of his ideas across, Harper didn't do all that great, but Martin didn't do well at all. So I'd say Harper and Layton were the winners.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 521
Originally posted by 97TA-WS6-Con
Would someone please try to explain to me WHY we should NOT have two tiered health care? Why is that bad? Why is someone with wealth literally not allowed to buy healthcare services? (although as we know, that is subltely changing) NDP policies and policies of envy. I'm an open minded person, but I got sick and tired of the Jack Naugton nagging like a shrew to Martin and he simply could not answer a question, although Martin himself often never answered a question, literally not answering a direct question. That got to be tiresome as well.
If you have a political agenda that takes from the rich and gives to the poor, then the rich move and the poor don't have much motivation to become rich. Left wing, socialist policies / theory are in the ash can of history. At least I hope so.
Would someone please try to explain to me WHY we should NOT have two tiered health care? Why is that bad? Why is someone with wealth literally not allowed to buy healthcare services? (although as we know, that is subltely changing) NDP policies and policies of envy. I'm an open minded person, but I got sick and tired of the Jack Naugton nagging like a shrew to Martin and he simply could not answer a question, although Martin himself often never answered a question, literally not answering a direct question. That got to be tiresome as well.
If you have a political agenda that takes from the rich and gives to the poor, then the rich move and the poor don't have much motivation to become rich. Left wing, socialist policies / theory are in the ash can of history. At least I hope so.
It was only a couple years ago that Seattle had more MRI's than all of Canada. We've added more now. Last count I think we're around 180 of them....for 40 million people. Heck there are more than that in Los Angeles alone. If the public health care system isn't going to sink in the money for equipment, comparible wages, reducing waiting lists, as well as new hospitals, the health care system is going to have to have private companies voluntarily put money in with their own private care, even if that means for profit health care. If you've ever go to Houston, you should check out the medical center. They have about a dozen hospitals all together, and they're HUUUUUGE!!!. MD Anderson hospital is one of the top 3 cancer hospitals in the world. Here, you better hope you get somebody better than Dr Nick Riviera.
2nd paragraph. I know what you mean. If I were a graduating doctor, I'd either move to Florida (hot weather) or Washington (similar weather, attitude, general BC way of life). Basically do the Steve in Seattle trick. What does a doctor pay in BC? 14.7%, in WA/FL? 0%. In Quebec the bottom tax bracket is 16% (then 20, then 24%). This means a doctor in BC pays a lower tax percent than a McDonalds worker in Quebec. In Quebec you pay prov. taxes after the first $6800 while in BC you don't pay until $8500. In Alberta it's aprox $14,000 (wow)
If you make 56,000/year, you'd be in the 24% bracket in Quebec. In BC, you're still in the 9% bracket. No wonder Quebec can afford a provincial daycare plan.
Last edited by Gord's Green Z28; Jun 16, 2004 at 09:41 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,213
From: North Vancouver, BC
All three major parties make me want to do the technicolor yawn - but I see the Liberals as the least of all evils in this election 
.
My vote isn't going to who I want to win. Its just going against those I want not to.
. My vote isn't going to who I want to win. Its just going against those I want not to.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 521
I can't vote for Layton simply because he says he doesn't want to pay down the national debt. Don't count on a tax cut from him either.
If the budget has been balanced and surplused for 7 years in a row, isn't it time for some federal income tax cuts? Even small ones. Look at the EI taxes we pay. The Liberals collect billion more than they pay out every year. Currently they're around 45 billion in EI surplus. So they lowered the rate from 2.1% to 1.98%. Oh wow, I think I'll buy a new Z06 with that money. LOL
CPP rates go up every year. With my age, I can expect to make just a little over 2% return on my CPP money payed in. Thank goodness for RRSP's. At least if you're older than dirt like Stipdonk, you can expect to make a higher percent.
GST seems to be here to stay and that goof Campbell raised PST.
I want some relief.
P.S. I'd certainly sway my opinion to any candidate that wants to eliminate sales tax on cross border/cross province purchases like they do in the USA. I'm tired of paying sales tax on internet stuff. Especially after they add the exchange rate in there.
If the budget has been balanced and surplused for 7 years in a row, isn't it time for some federal income tax cuts? Even small ones. Look at the EI taxes we pay. The Liberals collect billion more than they pay out every year. Currently they're around 45 billion in EI surplus. So they lowered the rate from 2.1% to 1.98%. Oh wow, I think I'll buy a new Z06 with that money. LOL
CPP rates go up every year. With my age, I can expect to make just a little over 2% return on my CPP money payed in. Thank goodness for RRSP's. At least if you're older than dirt like Stipdonk, you can expect to make a higher percent.
GST seems to be here to stay and that goof Campbell raised PST.
I want some relief.
P.S. I'd certainly sway my opinion to any candidate that wants to eliminate sales tax on cross border/cross province purchases like they do in the USA. I'm tired of paying sales tax on internet stuff. Especially after they add the exchange rate in there.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 510
From: Victoria, BC, Canada
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gord's Green Z28
[B]
CPP rates go up every year. With my age, I can expect to make just a little over 2% return on my CPP money payed in. Thank goodness for RRSP's. At least if you're older than dirt like Stipdonk, you can expect to make a higher percent.
QUOTE]
That's right, I'm just waiting for the my great CPP windfall - monthy income should be just enough to cover the cost of a tank of gas for the vehicles
Lots of good information there Gord - you runing for a seat?
interesting sidenote - if no one wins a majority - Martin will likely form the next gov't even if Harper has more seats. Since in the event of no clear winner the sitting PM has first dibs at forming a coalition.
So that's why martin's strategy ihas changed to focus on ensuring no conservative majority and his politics is moving to the center to cozy up to the NDP
[B]
CPP rates go up every year. With my age, I can expect to make just a little over 2% return on my CPP money payed in. Thank goodness for RRSP's. At least if you're older than dirt like Stipdonk, you can expect to make a higher percent.
QUOTE]
That's right, I'm just waiting for the my great CPP windfall - monthy income should be just enough to cover the cost of a tank of gas for the vehicles
Lots of good information there Gord - you runing for a seat?
interesting sidenote - if no one wins a majority - Martin will likely form the next gov't even if Harper has more seats. Since in the event of no clear winner the sitting PM has first dibs at forming a coalition.
So that's why martin's strategy ihas changed to focus on ensuring no conservative majority and his politics is moving to the center to cozy up to the NDP
Registered User
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 521
Bill P.(ollution) Stipdonk brings up an interesting point about Martin forming a coalition. This election gets more interesting by the day. About that giant CPP windfall. For your age, you're looking at about 3.5% return. Don't spend it all in one place now. If you're born in 1930, you'd be getting over 9% return on your money.
I don't have any newer figures than 2002, but if BC had no debt, the amount of money we would save by not having to pay debt interest would be enough to give everybody in the province a 60% tax cut and we would break even. Same scenario but using Federal debt instead. Every Canadian could get a 48% tax cut and not a single program would need to be cut.....Now if only Jack Layton would listen.
No, I'm not running for a seat. Nobody would vote for me in a million years. I'd overhaul darn near everything.
I don't have any newer figures than 2002, but if BC had no debt, the amount of money we would save by not having to pay debt interest would be enough to give everybody in the province a 60% tax cut and we would break even. Same scenario but using Federal debt instead. Every Canadian could get a 48% tax cut and not a single program would need to be cut.....Now if only Jack Layton would listen.
No, I'm not running for a seat. Nobody would vote for me in a million years. I'd overhaul darn near everything.
Registered User
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 510
From: Victoria, BC, Canada
Originally posted by Gord's Green Z28
I don't have any newer figures than 2002, but if BC had no debt, the amount of money we would save by not having to pay debt interest would be enough to give everybody in the province a 60% tax cut
I don't have any newer figures than 2002, but if BC had no debt, the amount of money we would save by not having to pay debt interest would be enough to give everybody in the province a 60% tax cut
Source: BC estimates 04/05
Maybe at Gord's elevated income range he would see a large tax break but us poor working folk can't expect much more than a 15%tax decrease and that's before anyone else gets their paws on the savings.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post