I installed Hooker LT headers on my car in January of this year.. Over New Year's as a matter of fact...

Since installing them, I've had a performance problem, the car just hasn't performed like I feel it should.

I burned a plug wire (#5), replaced it, burned another one, replaced it again and it was ok for a few months I guess.

I've had a hesitation just off idle, and less than stellar performance below 2k RPM and when at WOT.

Logging the car showed that at WOT, the car was running in Cell 15 and adding up to 22% fuel to both banks. I locked the BLMs to 128 at WOT and added a few points of fuel in the PE vs RPM table above 2800 RPM (+3 points). The o2 readings were then 880-900 at WOT.

Ran the car at the drag strip in April and managed a 13.780 with 200 lbs stereo equipment in the trunk, so I was kinda ok with it.

The car was still hesitating, and stumbling and it was slowly getting worse.

When I first installed the headers, I had a lack of heat in the car, but flushing the heater core fixed that problem. But after that, after idling at a traffic light for a couple of minutes then starting to drive would cause a smell of coolant to enter the cabin of the car through the vents. Several people have reported this same problem so I assumed that it was because one of the header primaries passed close to the heater box on the firewall. This was back in February or March I guess...

In March, I put the car on the dyno and was severely disappointed. Last July with just CAI, cat-back and 3.42s the car put down 264 RWHP and 290 RWTQ. After the headers, the best the car could muster was 270 RWHP, and I'm not sure of the TQ reading. It was after this that I ran at the track and ran the 13.780.

Fast forward to the end of may/first of June. The car was still stumbling/hesitating and now noticable missing, so I decided to replace the plug wires. I went from Taylors in the stock routing locations to Taylors over the covers. Almost immediately (like the next night or something) after getting the car running again, the miss returned and over the next week it actually started getting worse. I also replaced the o2 sensors with brand new GM units. I let a friend ride with me and he felt the issues that I described, and told me it seemed like the Opti. So I ordered a brand new Opti, water pump, and stock GM coil. I also ordered new seals and such for the front cover.

On JUly 4th, I replaced (with a little help from a friend) the water pump, opti, and coil. The car ran better, MUCH better, but it still missed once good and warmed up, and the hesitation was still there too.

I got to looking and noticed a bunch of arcing from wire to wire and from wire to valve cover, and right around the plug at the boot. I assumed that I got bad plug wires or I had done something wrong to damage them...

I ordered new MSD 8.5 wires, and they came in today. A friend came over and after dark we turned all the lights off and watched the car as we ran the engine in park. After running the engine at 2-3k for like 1-1.5 minutes or so, the headers began to glow!

Pics are HERE on my club message board: http://www.mtfba.org/forum/viewthread.php?tid=5481

So, my friend's recommendation is to NOT put the new wires on the car because he believes that the extra heat from the glowing headers is breaking down and ruining my wires. After they start glowing, the #8 plug wire will jump spark from the plug boot to the header primary.

I don't know what to do now.

I've done: new o2 sensors (~2000 miles max), new plug wires (~1500 miles), new opti, water pump, coil (maybe 500 miles on this stuff), replaced the ground from the coil bracket to the frame and added a better ground from batter to the chassis as well. The plugs only have less than 8000 miles on them, the fuel filter has maybe 10k as well (I drove the car about 20k before replacing the fuel filter though). I put the stock tune back in the car, with the only changes being for the gears (speedo, shifting, TCC stuff), I didn't even turn off the EGR, AIR and rear o2's. I've taken the throttle body totally apart and cleaned everything thoroughly and put it back together.

Sorry it's so long, but wanted to be as complete as possible.

 

just wondering, are those headers jet hot coated?

 

not sure but wouldnt glowing headers mean ur running extremely rich
im not to sure what ur problem is bbut i hope someon here can help u
good luck

 

Sounds like you are running REALLY lean. Have you checked your injectors? You might have a melted wire somewhere that is giving a false reading to the computer from a sensor. Did you cehck your MAP sensor readings?

What else is done to your car? Are there any other mods?

It sounds like your friend is right. It runs fine until the headers heat up and destroy the wire and they begin to arc.

 

The headers aren't "Jet Hot" brand coated, but are coated by Paul Barry (sp?).

My understanding is that glowing headers can be caused by extremely rich OR extremely lean conditions. The problem is knowing which it is. I've also heard that the timing can affect EGTs and I guess that could make the headers glow too.

The problem is knowing where to start.

The only mods to the car are what's in my sig, that's it.

One person recommended to put new wires and plugs on the car to see if maybe it's incomplete combustion causing it. What do you guys think?

 

Just food for thought, but you might not have a problem with the glowing headers persay...it's not unusual for the headers to have a slight glow in total darkness if you're sitting in a garage with no airflow and reving the car to 3K for a couple minutes. Wire routing with headers is critical though and if you're burning wires you've got to do something of course.

Personally I dislike the MSD wires, and prefer the Accel Extreme 9000's.

 

You need to heatshield the plugs better. Buy some insulating heat wrap for the plugs and install it. It will solve the burned plug problem. Also use zip ties and get them as far away from the headers as possible.

 

F1 knows what he's talking about.

If the headers didn't glow under the circustances in which you checked them... something is wrong. The pictures you linked to, are "normal".
You are also correct on lean or rich. It could be either, cause lean means slower burning and sometimes the exhaust is evacuated while the burn is still taking place. So EGT's go through the roof. Rich usually corresponds with lower EGTs but the fuel could be burning in the primary pipes.... "glowing headers".
Chances are high, that glowing headers while idling is probably do to being overly rich OR timing is too retarded. If that's the case, you have to check for unmetered air leaks and go from there.

-Mindgame

 

I was always under the impression that a "severely" glowing header was due to a extreme LEAN condition. Since the computer (PCM) recognizes a lean condition it tries to compensate by dumping excessive (and most times unneeded) amounts of fuel. Which in turn ignites inside of the actually header primary, which causes the primary to "glow" due to the excessive amount of heat.

 

True.

Not a true 'lean" condition but you have to find the source of the problem. Why does the computer "think" the engine is running too lean? Diagnostic tools anyone??

-Mindgame

 

Exactly.
I would definately listen to F1 and Mindgame.

 

At idle, the PCM typically pulls fuel, and above idle it adds it. Last time I checked the car, it was adding 25% fuel to both sides in cell 15.

After my March dyno session, I discovered this (from original post):

Logging the car showed that at WOT, the car was running in Cell 15 and adding up to 22% fuel to both banks. I locked the BLMs to 128 at WOT and added a few points of fuel in the PE vs RPM table above 2800 RPM (+3 points). The o2 readings were then 880-900 at WOT.

Just last week, running that same tune I was driving at 35 MPH, and pressed the gas to accelerate. Autotap showed 40% throttle (which is below the 66 that is required at ~2000 RPM for WOT) and the car moved to cell 15 and added 25% fuel to both sides of the engine.

For some troubleshooting, I put the stock tune back on the car and only changed it to suit the gears, I didn't even remove EGR, AIR or the rear o2's from the tune. It's doing this glowing with the stock tune.

What kind of primary tube temp should I see at an idle? I was seeing over 400 last night, just idling (before the throttle was held to ~2500 to see the headers glow). I was using my little RC car IR temp gauge but it can't read high enough to tell me the temp when they're glowing.

 

When I left work today I unplugged the MAF to see if maybe it was reporting less air than was actually flowing. While the car DID drive better on the road, less hesitation and crisper throttle response as well as a feeling of more power, still the headers get to glowing pretty good. I recorded one file with the MAF and one without, and the results are similar.

I picked up a cheap set of Autozone wires this afternoon too. I will try swapping them and see if that helps any. I will likely also swap the plugs while I'm at it and since I planned on putting new plugs in it anyway.

I bought a new fuel filter, although this one has only 8k miles or so (replaced in November/December I think).

I will be swapping the fuel filter as well, I will also be testing the fuel pressure, running a manifold vacuum check as well. And possibly swapping the injectors for another stock set as well.

Anything else I can check?

 

Worked on it some this weekend. Pulled the Taylor OVC wires and discovered the reason for #8 arcing to the primary tube. (see link below)...

Pulled the plugs, and did a compression test. All 8 cylinders are between 200-210 psi (on the 2nd round, didn't let the pressure fully built first test on the odd bank), so I guess that's OK.

Compared the resistance of the OVC wires to the MSDs and to the Autozone wires, the Autozone wires had a TON more resistance than even the Taylors so I left them alone. I put the MSD's on the car.

On page three of the thread I linked above on my club's board, I have pics of the odd numbered plugs.. They look OK to you? Here's a link straight to page 3 with the pics.. http://www.mtfba.org/forum/viewthrea...id=5481&page=3

The pics also show what the heat did to the split-loom around my wires, and shows the reason for the arcing wire...

The headers will still glow, but it takes them longer to do it, and they're not as bright now...

Vacuum is good, as with the car sitting two days, removing the vacuum tubes off the HVAC controls released pressure, and removing the booster hose results in an audible hiss of pressure release, but I might still put a gauge on it just to know for sure.

Skipped the leak down test, too big a pain in the **** to deal with removing the plugs, especially with a warm engine and possibly hot header tubes.

Have not installed the new fuel filter, or run the fuel pressure gauge on it yet. That's still on my list to do.

 

Lee, what was the vacuum reading at idle? Stock LT1 should be able to pull 20-21 inches at idle.