So what your saying slim is that the spark retard should read 0 at WOT?

 

That is right Sherwin. Before I put the blower on, I got no retard at wot. I would get a few degrees of retard if I revved it in neutral but obviously that didn't matter. I am picking up a few degrees now with the blower so I am guessing it is mechanical but I will be tackling that soon hopefully.

Your goal should be to see zero degrees retard.

 

I guess I'll order up the delteq and a new knock sensor(just in case) and see how that goes. What are the causes of spark retard? My rocker arms are a little loose since I can hear them from inside the car.

 

I'd make sure that the valve lash is properly set before dropping money on a Delteq. Loose rocker arms could VERY easily cause knock retard.

 

First thing, the power is still climbing...why did you shut it down at 6k? safety or rev limiter? However, it is VERY low for your setup. I know this seems to be my holy grail for problem solving, but did you degree the cam? I ask because a lot of times you can't tell that its off by eye, and I would expect the 230/236 to peak earlier than a larger cam, mine peaks at 5800 with the 847, but I am on stock heads. Your car is 50 RWHP LOWER than mine at 4500 rpms. There is something wrong. I don't think its just timing. I guess it COULD be, but it doesn't seem likely. My car was insensitive to timing retard. 5* of knock retard only made 1.9 hp difference peak, and low end was basically unaffected. What kind of vacumm is the motor pulling at idle? As far as the breaking up, I'd say it could be the coil most likely...mine did the same thing, even after a newer opti.

 

I was wondering if it could be something wrong with the way I installed the cam but the car drives fine. I didn't degree the cam either. I did install a new coil as well when I put new plug wires in. I can't really remember if I screwed anything up when I installed the cam but I do have a recollection that the timing marks weren't aligned but I did eventually align them when I installed the cam. If the timing is off wouldn't the car run horribly? How can I check vacuum as well? Link to a tool?
Thanks

 

A vacumm gauge hooked to the manifold will let you know. The car could drive fine, you just might never know the cam is installed wrong. I think atljar's car only ran 100mph in the 1/4 after he first put the cam in and it had real low vacumm. After he re-installed the cam, it went 112 or so on its first pass. You have to remember, the car still has over 300 hp, so it is going to feel fast...I'd expect close to 370 with your setup, maybe a little less with the shorties.

 

Detonation causes retard. Lots of reasons can be to blame for detonation. Bad gas, too much blowby, improper a/f ratio, too much compression, etc. Mechanical noise causes false knock. Loose rocker arms for example, headers, exhaust hitting body, etc.

Is there a way you can get the file loaded into your computer?

 

brain, thats exactly what i was thinking. I was looking at the torque and it shocked me since it was pretty low. The car feels fast but it also feels like somethings not there...that feeling of you getting pulled into the seat.

 

So an easy way to check if the cam is installed wrong is with a vacuum gauge? I also just moved my computer to the garage so I can run the cable for obd-2.com software and see what the spark retard is at idle. I'm still trying to get ahold of a laptop. Anything else I should look out for? I'll probably readjust the rockers this weekend, hopefully if I get some time. If i do have to take out that came I'll go with something more smog friendly, possibly turbo friendly.

 

Based on the drop at 4600 and just above 5000, I'd say its the opti. A drop like you have at 4600 is very common when the opti starts to go.

If you were really getting 20+ degrees of spark retard at wot(should only have ~37, I think, its been too long since I've seen a stock program), that means you'd only have 17 degrees of advance at wot, and your car would run extremely rich and I don't think it could even put down the #'s you did. I really do think one of your problems is your opti is starting to go.

 

Last time I checked stock knock retard table only went to 12*?

 

What is with the stinking opti issues being the only possibility? I just don't see an opti causing a LOW power but still consistent. When my opti was going, you KNEW it was going. Car wouldnt start, backfire, kick back on the starter, break up in the high rpms. Hell, it actually BROKE the starter into pieces. The breakup on the dyno on his at 4500 is just a weak reading. The problem is in the ENTIRE graph. The car should have a LOT more power EVERYWHERE, not just peak. I'll put $20 on it that its the cam installed wrong. Wait, might not be installed wrong, it could be a bad timing set. Its probably close to 4* retarded. I mean, its not even CLOSE to peaking yet. Let us know what it ends up being.

 

brain, what you're saying makes sense...I'll go get a vacuum gauge after work today and check it out and report back tomorrow or later tonight. I also noticed that throughout the whole rpm range its missing power not just above 4500 rpm.

 

ok I bought a (crappy) vacuum gauge and hooked up a laptop to the car here are the pics. I was getting anywhere from 16-21 degrees of spark retard at idle, it jumped to about 44 degrees at around 2500 rpm. I was also showing about 12 psi(?) of vacuum when I hooked up the vacuum gauge. This gauge really sucked to read. I also burned the vacuum line on the damn header so I couldn't try it again.

http://img61.exs.cx/img61/545/mini-IMG_0011.jpg
http://img61.exs.cx/img61/9207/mini-IMG_0015.jpg
http://img61.exs.cx/img61/2759/mini-IMG_0017.jpg
http://img61.exs.cx/img61/5444/mini-IMG_0020.jpg
http://img61.exs.cx/img61/5397/mini-IMG_0021.jpg
http://img61.exs.cx/img61/1803/mini-IMG_0022.jpg
http://img61.exs.cx/img61/517/mini-IMG_26.jpg