How much faster is a LS1 compared to an LT1?
06-09-2008, 12:44 PM
#46
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,834
From what I've read the LT1 ingnition system is pretty damn good except for the fact of the placment. It's more accurate then any tradition distributor. I don't really thinkg the optispark is what is holding the LT1 back, if anything it helps.
I will say this. When a person in an LS1 car can drive the car, they put down pretty good numbers at the track. However, more often it seems than not, it isn't the case, anyways it hasn't been my experiences where I've been racing. (MIR, Gateway, E-Town, Orlando).
This is the case as well with many other types of cars too, LTx's included. Numbers multiplied in to equal what has been stated and shown on dynographs don't really give you the whole picture on what goes on during a dyno pull vice rowing through gears on the street/track. I wish I had my graph of my '95Z/M6 that just had a K&N replacement filter, flowmaster catback and fan switch, netted 273wrph/317rwtq, and the torque curver was insanely flat across the band. It didn't fall off quickly, or peak sharply and fall off down low.
The LS1's ability to breathe better, with a better ignition/spark system than the LT1, has you starting out with more power than with the LT1, let alone other factors. Much like how the LT1 bumped up performance levels achieved by the L98, the LS1 did the same. You will always have the die-hard faithful to their powerplant of choice, but looking at a factory performance level, the LS1 has the LT1 beat. By on average, a half second or quicker in the 1/4 mile.
This is the case as well with many other types of cars too, LTx's included. Numbers multiplied in to equal what has been stated and shown on dynographs don't really give you the whole picture on what goes on during a dyno pull vice rowing through gears on the street/track. I wish I had my graph of my '95Z/M6 that just had a K&N replacement filter, flowmaster catback and fan switch, netted 273wrph/317rwtq, and the torque curver was insanely flat across the band. It didn't fall off quickly, or peak sharply and fall off down low.
The LS1's ability to breathe better, with a better ignition/spark system than the LT1, has you starting out with more power than with the LT1, let alone other factors. Much like how the LT1 bumped up performance levels achieved by the L98, the LS1 did the same. You will always have the die-hard faithful to their powerplant of choice, but looking at a factory performance level, the LS1 has the LT1 beat. By on average, a half second or quicker in the 1/4 mile.
06-09-2008, 03:00 PM
#47
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Ballwin, MO
Posts: 1,182
Normally I would not enter this discussion with a grapg of a modified car. However, in most cases two of the modifications to the engine are usual detriments to low end torque. This graph represents the mods in the signature on a factory tune, but with the stock clutch and gears. Over 300 torque at the wheels from 2000-6000+.
06-10-2008, 06:44 AM
#48
Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 77
Nice write -up.But at what rpm?The LT1 has tremendous horse power and torque at the low end,while the LS1 has to work it's way up there.Maybe I'm wrong.I dunno,Stop light to stop light,I'm sorry,It takes too long for an LS1 to wind up.A little spray might level this out maybe,I dunno.(Does anybody go the drags anymore?).Lt4 heads and manifold---350hp,add a cam,409hp.(high flow cat,headers to.This thread has been worked a lot.But I still love the LT1.But what do I know,I sell furniture for a living.
I want instant and big throttle gratification as soon as I hit it 
As soon as I drove my first LT1 I was in love with the power delivery
I will say this. When a person in an LS1 car can drive the car, they put down pretty good numbers at the track. However, more often it seems than not, it isn't the case, anyways it hasn't been my experiences where I've been racing. (MIR, Gateway, E-Town, Orlando).
This is the case as well with many other types of cars too, LTx's included. Numbers multiplied in to equal what has been stated and shown on dynographs don't really give you the whole picture on what goes on during a dyno pull vice rowing through gears on the street/track. I wish I had my graph of my '95Z/M6 that just had a K&N replacement filter, flowmaster catback and fan switch, netted 273wrph/317rwtq, and the torque curver was insanely flat across the band. It didn't fall off quickly, or peak sharply and fall off down low.
The LS1's ability to breathe better, with a better ignition/spark system than the LT1, has you starting out with more power than with the LT1, let alone other factors. Much like how the LT1 bumped up performance levels achieved by the L98, the LS1 did the same. You will always have the die-hard faithful to their powerplant of choice, but looking at a factory performance level, the LS1 has the LT1 beat. By on average, a half second or quicker in the 1/4 mile.
This is the case as well with many other types of cars too, LTx's included. Numbers multiplied in to equal what has been stated and shown on dynographs don't really give you the whole picture on what goes on during a dyno pull vice rowing through gears on the street/track. I wish I had my graph of my '95Z/M6 that just had a K&N replacement filter, flowmaster catback and fan switch, netted 273wrph/317rwtq, and the torque curver was insanely flat across the band. It didn't fall off quickly, or peak sharply and fall off down low.
The LS1's ability to breathe better, with a better ignition/spark system than the LT1, has you starting out with more power than with the LT1, let alone other factors. Much like how the LT1 bumped up performance levels achieved by the L98, the LS1 did the same. You will always have the die-hard faithful to their powerplant of choice, but looking at a factory performance level, the LS1 has the LT1 beat. By on average, a half second or quicker in the 1/4 mile.
Its all in what you want the car to do I guess I think until they perfect variable valve timing we'll always have the issue of where we want our power. On top, the low end, or a compromise.
Last edited by Billy Biker; 06-10-2008 at 07:00 AM.
06-10-2008, 07:24 AM
#49
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: albany, ny
Posts: 666
undoubtedly is the ls1 a better engine then the lt1 in most respect if not all stock for stock. it should be i mean think about it the ls1 was the replacement for the lt1.
i personally have always thought though that if your going to mod an engine it really doesn't matter which one you pick. yes some are a little better and some could save you a little cash here or there but in the end no matter which one you pick you will be able to archive your goal.
i have always wondered if you found the flaws in the lt1 and removed them which would be the better preforming engine. for example if the head and intake were the limiting factor on the lt1 and you had the machined to get them to flow some what similar to the ls1 how would the ls1 and lt1 match up at that point.
i personally have always thought though that if your going to mod an engine it really doesn't matter which one you pick. yes some are a little better and some could save you a little cash here or there but in the end no matter which one you pick you will be able to archive your goal.
i have always wondered if you found the flaws in the lt1 and removed them which would be the better preforming engine. for example if the head and intake were the limiting factor on the lt1 and you had the machined to get them to flow some what similar to the ls1 how would the ls1 and lt1 match up at that point.
06-10-2008, 11:13 AM
#50
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
Posts: 5,308
The only things I do are stoplight holeshots and grunting around town. Anything that doesn't have instant launch power would be a waste on me....plus probably frustrate the hell outta me I want instant and big throttle gratification as soon as I hit it
..... I agree...the LS1 is quicker. Unfortunately I want my quicker right now, not on the back half of the 1/4.
I want instant and big throttle gratification as soon as I hit it ..... I agree...the LS1 is quicker. Unfortunately I want my quicker right now, not on the back half of the 1/4.
They are quick RIGHT NOW . Except it's kind of like premature ejaculation ..... there's nothing left for the long haul!!
Originally Posted by GRNcamaro
i have always wondered if you found the flaws in the lt1 and removed them which would be the better preforming engine. for example if the head and intake were the limiting factor on the lt1 and you had the machined to get them to flow some what similar to the ls1 how would the ls1 and lt1 match up at that point.
Isn't that just what GM did?! They wanted to make more power, and have a more EFFICIENT motor, so they took the old SBC/LT1 design ...... and threw it in the garbage
.The C5 Corvette & LS1 engine were both clean sheet of paper designs. They did EXACTLY what you're saying ... "find the flaws of the C4/LT1 and remove them". The engine has a different firing order. The exhaust port configuration is different (E-I-E-I-E-I-E-I vs. E-I-I-E-E-I-I-E). The head design is, well, not even CLOSE! The ignition system is much more powerful. And the intake system is much larger and less restrictive.
So to answer your question, "what would happen if?" ..... basically, you'd end up with an LS1!!
For the record, I am NOT trying to knock the LT1, as it truly was (still is) a great motor in its day. But the LS1 clearly trumps it. And they're STILL developing the LSx engine line!
I'm sorry the LS1 doesn't "feel" torquier, but the power and the torque are there (maybe just not quite as much BELOW 2000 RPM
).
06-10-2008, 12:53 PM
#51
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: albany, ny
Posts: 666
like i said what direction you take a motor will determine which engine you decide to chose. the ls1 is a great motor but im willing to bet if you went to a race track you see a hell of a lot more "old sbc" once you get into forced induction a lot of what the ls1 has over other engines is gone.
differences dont always equal better. like i said if you port the intake and heads on an lt1 and put an cam equal to the ls1 where would that put you? would the ls1 still be that much faster. i think the ls1 is different but i think plain and simple its just a better breathing engine.
Last edited by GRNcamaro; 06-11-2008 at 09:10 AM.
06-10-2008, 03:32 PM
#52
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
Posts: 5,308
^ ^ I do agree . And I hear your point that stock vs. stock is one thing, but once the modding begins, the sky is pretty much the limit either way you go .
The closer to stock you are (and if you just want to stick to simple bolt-ons) is when the LS1 shines the most. It's got a whole whack of performance, without so much as turning a wrench.
. And I hear your point that stock vs. stock is one thing, but once the modding begins, the sky is pretty much the limit either way you go .The closer to stock you are (and if you just want to stick to simple bolt-ons) is when the LS1 shines the most. It's got a whole whack of performance, without so much as turning a wrench.
06-10-2008, 11:50 PM
#53
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,174
^ ^ I do agree . And I hear your point that stock vs. stock is one thing, but once the modding begins, the sky is pretty much the limit either way you go .
The closer to stock you are (and if you just want to stick to simple bolt-ons) is when the LS1 shines the most. It's got a whole whack of performance, without so much as turning a wrench.
. And I hear your point that stock vs. stock is one thing, but once the modding begins, the sky is pretty much the limit either way you go .The closer to stock you are (and if you just want to stick to simple bolt-ons) is when the LS1 shines the most. It's got a whole whack of performance, without so much as turning a wrench.
06-11-2008, 11:25 AM
#56
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
Posts: 5,308
Short (but long) story . I was 18. I got a minor speeding ticket just a few months after settling a racing charge in court (oops! ) and I was starting college, so I thought the fuel mileage was going to kill me, and I was tired of the "boy-racer" temptation of having ~350 HP at my feet 
. So then for the next ~two years 'til I got my '02 Z28, I regretted that decision, have kicked myself numerous times for it, and vow never to be so stupid again!! I will ALWAYS have a RWD, V8, performance car in my life .
No they don't. Does a BBC sound like crap? 
They've got the exact same port configuration. I'll agree, they sound a little different than LT1's and SBC's, but like crap? 
Not at all! With a stock muffler, yeah, they're way too quiet. I've got LT's and a Magnaflow cat-back. I love hearing the sound of my exhaust under WOT!! 
. I was 18. I got a minor speeding ticket just a few months after settling a racing charge in court (oops! ) and I was starting college, so I thought the fuel mileage was going to kill me, and I was tired of the "boy-racer" temptation of having ~350 HP at my feet . So then for the next ~two years 'til I got my '02 Z28, I regretted that decision, have kicked myself numerous times for it, and vow never to be so stupid again!! I will ALWAYS have a RWD, V8, performance car in my life . They've got the exact same port configuration. I'll agree, they sound a little different than LT1's and SBC's, but like crap? Not at all! With a stock muffler, yeah, they're way too quiet. I've got LT's and a Magnaflow cat-back. I love hearing the sound of my exhaust under WOT!!
06-11-2008, 11:49 AM
#57
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Az
Posts: 927
Let me requote:
Which is why LS1s sound like GARBAGE. They sound terrible. That's half the reason I went with the LT1. I know the LS1 is faster, and always will be. But I couldn't sleep at night thinking about how awful the exhaust sounded. If I wanted to be ashamed of the exhaust I'd buy a 4 cylinder or a viper.
Which is why LS1s sound like GARBAGE. They sound terrible. That's half the reason I went with the LT1. I know the LS1 is faster, and always will be. But I couldn't sleep at night thinking about how awful the exhaust sounded. If I wanted to be ashamed of the exhaust I'd buy a 4 cylinder or a viper.
06-11-2008, 12:41 PM
#58
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: albany, ny
Posts: 666
Let me requote:
Which is why LS1s sound like GARBAGE. They sound terrible. That's half the reason I went with the LT1. I know the LS1 is faster, and always will be. But I couldn't sleep at night thinking about how awful the exhaust sounded. If I wanted to be ashamed of the exhaust I'd buy a 4 cylinder or a viper.
Which is why LS1s sound like GARBAGE. They sound terrible. That's half the reason I went with the LT1. I know the LS1 is faster, and always will be. But I couldn't sleep at night thinking about how awful the exhaust sounded. If I wanted to be ashamed of the exhaust I'd buy a 4 cylinder or a viper.
i bought got my camaro cause i enjoyed driving it and i still do to this day and she treats me just as good as i treat her.
Last edited by GRNcamaro; 06-11-2008 at 12:44 PM.
06-11-2008, 01:14 PM
#59
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,705
"Let me requote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capn Pete
The engine has a different firing order.
Which is why LS1s sound like GARBAGE. They sound terrible. That's half the reason I went with the LT1. I know the LS1 is faster, and always will be. But I couldn't sleep at night thinking about how awful the exhaust sounded. If I wanted to be ashamed of the exhaust I'd buy a 4 cylinder or a viper."
He is right on this one.
I have never heard an ls1 that i really liked. The old traditional sbc sound just cant be beat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capn Pete
The engine has a different firing order.
Which is why LS1s sound like GARBAGE. They sound terrible. That's half the reason I went with the LT1. I know the LS1 is faster, and always will be. But I couldn't sleep at night thinking about how awful the exhaust sounded. If I wanted to be ashamed of the exhaust I'd buy a 4 cylinder or a viper."
He is right on this one.
I have never heard an ls1 that i really liked. The old traditional sbc sound just cant be beat.
06-11-2008, 04:17 PM
#60
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Oshawa - Home of the 5th-gen
Posts: 5,308
Let me requote:
Which is why LS1s sound like GARBAGE. They sound terrible. That's half the reason I went with the LT1. I know the LS1 is faster, and always will be. But I couldn't sleep at night thinking about how awful the exhaust sounded. If I wanted to be ashamed of the exhaust I'd buy a 4 cylinder or a viper.
Originally Posted by Capn Pete
The engine has a different firing order.
I STILL whole-heartedly disagree that the LS1 engine sounds like crap!?
I WILL say that SOME exhaust systems do not compliment it well. IMO, the Borla (cut-out) cat-back is way to raspy.Just so you don't think I'm a biased LS1 nut-hugger, let me remind you of the other two cars listed in my sig:
1981 Z28
1973 Camaro
My '81 had a very "healthy" 383 stroker motor. Long-tubes (of course) and straight true duals, through a pair of cats and bullet style mufflers. It had a ~.480" cam in it (nothing too crazy, but enough lift). That car sounded awesome! Very deep, throaty exhaust note.
My Dad's '73 has a fairly "aggressive" 355. It's not record-setting by any means, but it made enough power to pull off a 12.7 on pretty much a b.s. 1/4 mile run. It has a set of 11.25:1 pop-ups and a cam with well over .500" lift (around ~.540"?). Again, long-tubes, straight pipes, no cats, Flowmaster mufflers. This car has a very different tone than my '81/383, but I think it's to do with the displacement/compression difference, and they're different mufflers. Still this car sounds amazing
.And last but not least, my current '02 Z28
. It's a STOCK LS1, with the STOCK cam, a 2-into-1 catted Y-piped exhaust after the Pacesetter LT's, and then a Magnaflow cat-back. Is the '02 nearly as loud, lumpy, or throaty sounding as either of our old SBC's?? Not at all! Does a stock LT1 sound as good??? Nope, they're too "mild" as well!Throw a set of long-tubes onto an LT1 or LS1, and a nice cat-back. They don't necessarily sound the SAME, but the LS1 still sounds like a throaty V8!!?
Put a cam in, get a little lope going, and they start to sound REAL good .I've heard my car's exhaust bouncing off concrete barrier walls numerous times under WOT, and it's VERY pleasing to the ear. It has no less "SBC" sound than the old ones
.