Forced Induction Supercharger/Turbocharger

Is this going to kill my forged 383??

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Old Oct 21, 2008 | 07:36 PM
  #1  
RUNMYTA's Avatar
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Is this going to kill my forged 383??

After trying to tune my T/A with a forged 383 and a D1SC this is what I found!! I think this might be why I couldn't make any more than 6psi with a 7.65/3.4 pulley setup.

I haven't pulled the charger off yet, but when I felt the fins, there where chunks the size of my index finger and about 1/4 inch deep missing! Plus every fin is pitted and destroyed. I have no clue how the fins got damaged, but my biggest concern is how much damage has been done to the engine!! The motor has less than 50 miles on it and about 20mins of trying to tune it. The D1SC is new and has less than 300 miles total on it. There is sand size granuals all through the plumbing. Here are a few pics of what went into the engine. Do you think there is any major damage to the engine?
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Old Oct 21, 2008 | 08:17 PM
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Drain the oil and have a sample tested, I would not start or run the engine at ALL until you do this, at the least your bearings are toast. Pull the pan and check the bearings.
Old Oct 21, 2008 | 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 87Aerocoupe
Drain the oil and have a sample tested, I would not start or run the engine at ALL until you do this, at the least your bearings are toast. Pull the pan and check the bearings.
I dont agree with that, if the metal didn't make it into the motor there is not going to be any damage to the bearings. The supercharger needs to go back, but I think the motor will be ok. Change the oil a couple times to check for flakes of metal. Dont run the motor until you change it a couple times. After that, fill it back with oil, start it, let it warm up then change the oil again. It looks like a lot of it stayed in your piping so you will probably be ok.
Old Oct 21, 2008 | 10:24 PM
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I toasted the oil pump drive and had about 7 complete teeth go through my motor and ran it for about 2 minutes ticking and had no issues, deffinitly pull the pan and clean it and flush the oil and filter 2 or 3 times in a row. run oil through drain, then fill up let the car heat up maybe a quick boot then drain again.
Old Oct 21, 2008 | 10:34 PM
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The screen in your mass air may have caught some of the bigger pieces. Also the intercooler would have got some of it.
Old Oct 21, 2008 | 11:27 PM
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Not sure why everyone thinks you would have metal in your oil. If you have larger peices of metal go into the motor through the intake you may damage the heads, valves, or piston, yet have no metal in your oil at all.

But it is true that your intercooler, and the screen on the maf would have caught all the big peices, and the smaller peices may have just blown right out the exhaust.

It is a good measure to check the oil, and see if there is any metalic in it. There should be a little no matter what though, as the motor has only 50 miles on it.

Do you know what caused the blower to have this issue in the first place?
Old Oct 22, 2008 | 12:09 AM
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SC/TA, there is no screen in my Mass Air. I don't recall ever removing it, but it is not there.

Fab: I have no clue as to what caused the damage. The blower is new. I have not taken it off yet to get a good look. I am figuring either a factory defect by feeling all of the pits on the blades or possibly it sucked something into it. Not sure how, but may be possible.

As you can see, there was "some" metal sucked into the intake, but how much and what damage was done is the what concerns me.
Old Oct 22, 2008 | 02:29 PM
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I would take Aerocouple's advice. I wouldn't start the motor again until you have the oil checked out. The fact that you've been trying to troubleshoot an issue of running only 6 lbs of boost means that you dont know how long the impeller has been chewed up so chances are, there are metal shavings in your motor somewhere. Definitely have the qil checked. You could do a quick test yourself and drain the oil into a pan and run a magnet through it and see how much metal you pull out.
Old Oct 22, 2008 | 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bad95formula
I would take Aerocouple's advice. I wouldn't start the motor again until you have the oil checked out. The fact that you've been trying to troubleshoot an issue of running only 6 lbs of boost means that you dont know how long the impeller has been chewed up so chances are, there are metal shavings in your motor somewhere. Definitely have the qil checked. You could do a quick test yourself and drain the oil into a pan and run a magnet through it and see how much metal you pull out.
There really shouldnt be a lot of metal in the pan, the blower is self contained. I blew my turbo and sent metal into my pan b/c my oil line is obviously connected to my turbo, changed the oil to get the metal out and no problems, perfect pressure.
Old Oct 23, 2008 | 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by RUNMYTA
As you can see, there was "some" metal sucked into the intake, but how much and what damage was done is the what concerns me.
This line alone means the motor shouldnt be started again. If you found metal shavings in your intake piping going into your almost BRAND NEW motor, would you want to take the chance of doing damage (or MORE damage, for that matter) to it when you can test your oil to see if you truly have something to worry about. I think the piece of mind would be worth it here.
Old Oct 23, 2008 | 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by bad95formula
This line alone means the motor shouldnt be started again. If you found metal shavings in your intake piping going into your almost BRAND NEW motor, would you want to take the chance of doing damage (or MORE damage, for that matter) to it when you can test your oil to see if you truly have something to worry about. I think the piece of mind would be worth it here.
Like I stated before, I agree the motor shouldn't be started, until it is checked out. But Checking the oil may not mean anything. Your oil could be perfect, yet you could have a damaged piston top, or messed up valves in the head. If he really wants to check it out he should pull the intake and heads, and inspect them. That way he can be for sure that there was no damage from the metal entering the motor.
Old Oct 23, 2008 | 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by fabgmc4me
Like I stated before, I agree the motor shouldn't be started, until it is checked out. But Checking the oil may not mean anything. Your oil could be perfect, yet you could have a damaged piston top, or messed up valves in the head. If he really wants to check it out he should pull the intake and heads, and inspect them. That way he can be for sure that there was no damage from the metal entering the motor.
I agree with this. I am by no means stating that checking the oil will be the test of all tests to see if the motor is fubarred. Usually if metal has gotten into the motor, and damaged anything, there will be hints of it in the oil. The oil just may come back clean as a whistle. My posts are specifically directed at this statement:

I dont agree with that, if the metal didn't make it into the motor there is not going to be any damage to the bearings. The supercharger needs to go back, but I think the motor will be ok. Change the oil a couple times to check for flakes of metal. Dont run the motor until you change it a couple times. After that, fill it back with oil, start it, let it warm up then change the oil again. It looks like a lot of it stayed in your piping so you will probably be ok.
Those of you stating that he should even go a step further and pull the intake and heads, I agree. I'm just stating that he shouldn't even crank the motor until the oil is checked and used as a starting point since it's pretty obvious that, at least, some metal shavings have gotten into the intake. There's really no way of knowing if "most of it stayed in the intake piping" or not.
Old Oct 23, 2008 | 03:32 PM
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After inspecting the piping closer, I feel that I have found most of the fins. I am sure that there has been some "sand grain" size pieces made it into the intake, but after cleaning a large amount out of the piping so far, plus still having to pull the twin intercoolers and blow them out, I don't think that a "huge" amount went into the engine.

I plan on changing the oil before it is started again. Then doing about 2-3 more oil changes with a few minutes of run time between. Plus with the car only being drove very little, I hope that there was minor if any damage done.

Also, I am wondering if there is a possibility that the charger had a factory flaw? I do not see how anything could have gotten into the suck side!!
Old Oct 23, 2008 | 04:37 PM
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Not to "beat a dead horse", but when something like this occurs and metal pieces, no matter how small, have the opportunity to be ingested by the motor's intake tract, I wouldn't spin the motor one revolution until the heads were removed and the cylinders and pistons were carefully inspected. I would also be very cautious about thoroughly washing every part from the blower forward before re-assembling the motor (even if there was no piston or cylinder wall damage). The metal fragments of the impeller went somewhere. I realize it is a lengthly process, but I would much rather be safe than sorry.
Old Oct 23, 2008 | 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RUNMYTA
SC/TA, there is no screen in my Mass Air. I don't recall ever removing it, but it is not there.

Fab: I have no clue as to what caused the damage. The blower is new. I have not taken it off yet to get a good look. I am figuring either a factory defect by feeling all of the pits on the blades or possibly it sucked something into it. Not sure how, but may be possible.

As you can see, there was "some" metal sucked into the intake, but how much and what damage was done is the what concerns me.
Are you blowing through the MAF or sucking through it?



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