accumulators
 

I have a 95 4L60E.I did a search and could not find an aswer.For the 1-2 and 3-4 accumulators how to they get assembled piston then spring or spring then piston.Also what color springs should be in there.If Im not mistaken the 1-2 should be orange not sure about the 3-4.I have a service manual but I swear the way they were was different than what is showed in the book.

Both accumulators assemble spring first then piston , Typically the spring locations are the stiffest ones go in the 1-2 accum

OK, let me answer this correctly. The accumulator in the case is the 4th accumulator. The piston goes in first, then the spring. The lighter of your 2 tall springs goes in the 4th. You can also leave the spring out completely for a better 3-4 shift. The other spring and a smaller white spring go in the 2nd accumulator housing first, and then the piston.
There is also an input accumulator in the valve body. The piston goes in first and then the spring. The input accumulator spring is taller than all the others.

Frank
CPT

Well if I knew how to post a picture in this forum I would but Im sure that me and transgo are wrong when we say put the springs in and then the accumulator piston in fourth and by the way that will give the best feeling 3-4 shift.

Yes, you and trans-Go are wrong, as a matter of fact. To get the "best feeling 3-4 shift", you'd want to block the accumulator. Regardless, the piston goes in the case first for the 3-4 accumulator. The picture below was copied from the ATSG 4L60E rebuild manual.

All GOOD transmission builders learned a long time ago not to listen to Trans-Go (Gil Younger). His ideas, theories, and kits are complete junk. If you still subscribe to any of his stuff, you might want to actually learn HOW a 4L60E works!

http://www.geocities.com/cahallperfo...ions/accum.jpg



Frank
CPT

Ok lets see if I'm completely dumb now I'm looking at the fluid diagram from gm now, Now from what I see the 4th fluid comes in from the case side and pushes the accumulator against the spring and a modulated pressure regulated by the torque signal from the pressure control solenoid and the boost valve, now positioned as you say the accumulator piston would move and would soften the shift, now reversed the chamber would be full of fluid already since there would be no way for it to exit would be like a cup full and since liquids cannot compress period (physics) that would in fact be exactly the same result as blocking the accumulator. Go to alldatapro and look at the diagram if you need to , But in a sense you are correct blocking the accumulator will make the firmest shift and in fact installing it as I said is doing just that,
Again I would post the diagram from alldata but that I am dumb about.
And by the way being condescending is not necessary.It may just be possible we might can all learn a bit from each other thats what these forums are for after all learning.

Exactly. And I'm trying to let everone know how to do this the right way. What you've wrote looks good "on paper". I can tell you that putting the 4th accumulator like you say feels like crap "in a real car" if you do it.
See, I spend 10-12 hours a day in front of a transmission bench...not infront of a desk, or a computer. I've tried everything and every way to build a 4L60E since 1993. I know what works and what's BS.
My objective in these posts is to keep other members from making mistakes because of misinformation.

Frank
CPT

Well not going to argue , I to have been in the trenches with these units and the 700R4 back in the early 80s literally having to make it up as I went because there wasn't anything else out there to work with , On the matter of the accumulator I wont argue physics, liquids cannot compress ever period so unless theres some way for the fluid to get out of there Im not aware of the fourth clutch oil would hit a brick wall the same as if you put a plug in the case , I have been using the acum there as i sTated for years and have certainly never had a mushy 3-4 shift .
but to each his own. have a wonderful eve

putting the 3-4 piston on top of the spring eleminates the 3-4 accum all the piston does at this point is create a seal.......i think we all have our ideas about building and i have been doing this in the early 80s also i think both are right as far as assembly...i have used 2 pistons....upside down....spring on top spring on bottom personally i like 2 pistons lol

i do havr to say that bad mouthing gil younger kinda looks bad on you....have you ever used an sk700 kit trust me it works and really good i have a 700 behind 500hp with 24 inch tires and been holding it for 3 years now in a friends car i should say that i built and i used the sk700 kit..it is not good in this business to bad mouth people...i never say anything bad about another builder

Great! You have ONE that's holding up? Try a search and see how many we have that are holding more power than 500HP...WITHOUT TG kits.

If you can't get them right unless you use a "crutch", then I wouldn't advertise that to anyone else. That's just not good buisness practice, either.

So tell me, have you ever "cured" the 2-4 band, following Gil Youngers instructions? You put the car on a lift, in manual low, and pry in on the servo cover...Until smoke comes out the dipstick tube????
As a "professional" transmission builder, you don't believe this is actually BURNING the band up? If you choose to follow these theories, then by all means keep using TG stuff. We're used to removing all their stuff, so we can make them work better and last longer.

Have I ever used an SK (Trans-Go) (No Yo Yo) kit??? Yes, most definitely. Way back before we found out they did more damage than good...And that we can build a much better transmission without them.

*EDIT* BTW, Your profile lists your occupation as "Law Enforcement"??? Mine is listed as "Transmission builder". Obviously, you don't do this for a living. I DO! Just because you've built a few transmissions for your buddies cars doesn't make you an expert. I'm sorry that I have enough proof about SK (TG) (No Yo Yo) to call a spade a spade. My objective isn't to purposely "bad mouth" anyone, but my goal IS to keep other members on this board from wasting money on things that just don't work, or are going to damage something. Have you seen the posts about bad Melling oil pumps, COMP lifters, or Beehive springs? Those are posts that warn others to be careful about what parts they buy. I'm simply doing the same thing when advising against Gil Youngers products.

I'm not going to go looking for a Police forum and tell you how to catch bad guys, because I'm not a professional in that field. You see where I'm going with this, right?

Frank
CPT

listen bro we all have our ways of building them and...they are not all the same and i have a little more than a few trannies experience again i am 32 and i was puting these things together in the 80s with the pops FULL time i had to earn my keep and i dont work for LE anymore or the past 4 yrs this is what i have been doing....and i dont understand the agression i didnt say anything bad about your product i have heard nothing but good about your product never used one but i have seen the good posts about it but really man you have alot of pent up agression.... i understand being proud of your product but let the product speak for itself really the competitiveness is really hurting your image and i am not just trying to be an ass i am trying to give you some constructive criticism....CURNG the band no i have never done it but i do understand why they are saying to do it. A new band will be very grabby and make a very good 1-2 shift...but as it gets broken in it will get a softer shift and the customer may bring it back under warranty as the tranny doesnt shift good like it used to.....so its better to give them the broken in band so the shift is pretty much the same from the day they get it and the customer wont have a reason to complain...

Actually, it's not really agression. It is just that I've got a very competative personality. I do tend to take that over the top when someone defends Gil Youngers products or ideas...Simply because I've seen the hundreds of transmissions his stuff has tore up. As I said, I just don't want anyone to waste money on his stuff.
I'm sorry if it seemed like I was attacking you, personally. I just want everyone here to stop buying TG kits. As I said, if I know of ANY product that's going to cause a problem, or if I've had a bad experience with it, I try to warn others. I always base that on the facts, not just opinion.
If I wrote a post about COMP beehive springs breaking, and destroying my engine, would anyone bash me because I warned them about the springs? I see warnings about the M55 Melling pumps breaking. Nobody bashed the person who posted about that. All were thankful that they got warned, and could avoid a bad product. Thankfully, I was one of those people who was about ready to install an M55.

Frank
CPT

yes with any product there will be failures.....but for instance the accum issue both of you are right there is just a different theory on the best operation and its kinda like arguing whos daddy is better lol..the book way to do it is yes piston first then the spring but half the mods we do to make these trans work better are against the book lol....all turning it the opposite is doing is taking the cushion away...the ATSG manual has everthing wrote up for a dealer/ warranty based operation and for stock setup...but thats not what we like lol...and i completely understand the competitive attitude spent 10 years in the army..I rarley say much though i just let my work speak for itself and if someone is wrong and they are an idiot i just let them be wrong and dont say anything but if they just dont know what they are saying then i will correct them.....both of you are good companies from the way i see the posts and by complimenting each other it will bring you both better business...personally i will not buy from someone who bashes the competition to a pulp now polite argiung is good becuase you learn something...dam i feel gay right now lol......jst work together and give technical info and i he or you are wrong on something give the respect of a PM because maybe one is wrong and if they are still an idiot then bash them publicly...

^ Sorry had to... ;)