For the ones that want to race heads up and can afford to be competitive go for it, I wish I where so lucky, but don't knock other forms of racing just because you don't perfer it. I've index raced for sometime now and have won an event and been competitive in the others and from what I've seen the reason that most of the ones that say they don't like index racing is because their not very good at it. Index racing as well as straight up bracket racing is a whole lot more a mind game than heads up racing is. I'm not trying to **** anybody off just my giving my opinion

Randy

 

You are not pissing anyone off, I posted this for opinions and you gave yours, nothing wrong with that. I myself don't have loads of money to put H/C or a 382, etc. My car is pretty much stock internal and I plan to keep it that way for a while but weather I am participating or watching, heads-up is just funnier. Like I have state before on the other thread my reasons for not caring as much for index racing is because it is "more like" bracket racing then heads-up. I am not a bracket racer, they have a separate class for that at every single event. I'll be honest, if there was an event, Like Super Chevy that is coming to my local track, they have some index classes, I will probably go and participate, just because it's right there in my backyard, but I would not be willing to travel to another state to do it. So I am not saying index racing sucks all-together, just that I prefer heads-up.

V6toZ28: If there was a bolt-on SI heads-up class setup would you be willing to race in that over a 12.0 index?

 

TimH, I"m not sure if you are up to date on where we are, but we will be doing 4-5 heads up classes and 4-5 index classes.

Let me make a few points, and do me a favor, read my entire post before commenting.

Between Tony (Nineball) and myself, and a number of other valued contacts like Tom Kempf, Chris Sikora, Madman...

It's clear that a mix of heads up and index is the way to go.

We need 125 participants going forward. We are looking at where we need to be, and are making revisions to how we have done things to hit the number.

While LS1Tech is indeed an LS1 website, if you had gone to the NvsS shootout you would have seen folks drooling over LT1's and LS1's.

We have decided to add in all LT1 powered vehicles to next year... So if someone has a Impala SS with a built setup they can race too.

We like all GM EFI performance setups... always have. Sure we have a bias towards LS1's but it sure does not show up in the rules...

Anyway, keep giving us your input folks, I think we will be able to roll out a 2004 schedule that will be fun, offer strong payouts for each class, and be significantly more organized than prior shootouts. Thanks again for all the support from folks over the last four years.

 

Even for us SLOW index racers

 

glad to hear that.


I believe I stated that when this all started. why were my and others comments not taken into consideration then. Instead we were attacked and basically told to live with it. I glad that the people you feel worthy to listen too had the same ideas. I stated from the beginning that a combo race was prolly what was needed. But I felt the index racing started too soon and that the index classes needed to be adjusted.


This is the second time this was brought up about me not going to a race. Is that the reasoning behind you guys not thinking my opinion counts. As I told tony..I'm in the middle of building a new house..it kinda takes up my spare time and money. I came to your NFRA race..even when my wife thought it was in bad taste after the 9-11 attack. I supported the thunder racing race last year. But my new house stopped me from going to the SBSO and the NvsS race. I wanted to go but sometimes "real life" just doesn't let you do what you want.

This year? Please expand on this as its also the second time you have stated this. If we are going to not be "allowed" to race next year why should I support it this year?


Are you guys not going to promote other EFI races on your web site that don't accept your rules? This was stated on the post that got deleted. John, I'm not trying to bust your ***** here..maybe I should take this to email but some of the "attitude" I see does concern me. I'm all for a fair and ballanced EFI racing series I just am not currently sure that is what is happening. Although I do like some of the names you were talking about that your consulting with now.

 

I'd try to keep it an all EFI event. I'm sure some people won't like that, but a majority of the cars there(along w/ the cars owned by those watching) are EFI cars of some sort. I'd also impose a CI limit (435ci perhaps?) This would keep the average BBC car out.

One of the things I liked about the NSSO rules were that the motors weren't divided(LT1, LS1, TPI). They don't divide NMRA into Cleveland and Windsor classes.

Classes...
Outlaw: Anything goes as long as it's EFI. SBC, LT1, TPI, LS1, whatever. Narrowed rears, Lencos, wheelie bars...who cares! Heads-up
Modified Street: Motor must be an LS1/LT1/TPI and EFI. Transmission can be any GM model. Rearend can be GM or aftermarket(Moser/Strange/Currie/MW). Heads-up
Index: Same rules as modified, but divided into indexes in .5 second increments(10.0, 10.5....).
Bracket: Duh

One thing I really like is the True Street aspect. I'd like to see some of these low 9-second slammers take a 20-mile adventure w/o refueling and make 3 back-to-back runs without popping the hood or CHANGING THE ECM. Of course, that's what Outlaw is for.

There's no way an F-Body racing series can be successful w/o index/bracket classes for the little guy.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pro Stock John
[B]TimH, I"m not sure if you are up to date on where we are, but we will be doing 4-5 heads up classes and 4-5 index classes.

I like this idea... sumpin' for everybody! See... you CAN make us all HAPPY!

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Redbird
[B]Except for the fact that us SLOW ones have to run an index class

 

Cain, you would be best off running the 12.0 index which is a heads up race up to 12.00, I don' think there would be enough cars showing up for a bolt'on class to round out the field.

 

... are you looking at running the index cars in class runoffs?
If so... you could bring back the winners for an OVERALL ELIMINATOR index race. Much like NHRA Stock- Super/Stock, etc...!

K.

 

Dont forget those of us who have supported f-body racing for the past four years and have all moved onto SBC.

Ya know, my recurring bitch. Take care John. I know you will do the right thing.

 

Ok, if I am going to have to run a 12.0 index class I better stop modding my car then I was hoping to be running some mid to low 11's this winter but I guess I can stick to low 12's high 11's. What time of the year are these races going to be put on? All at different times on different tracks right? If I show up to an event to run an index class and I make my fist run and I hit 11.38, and let's say my car already has all the weight taken out possible, for the "photo friendly" interior (two front seats, etc). Now that is closer to 11.0 than 12.0, but what am I going to do run out to a place and buy a nitrous setup to spray just enough (50-75 shot) to get me to a 11.0 or do I start de-modding my car to slow it down to 12.0? I mean if you know some cheap special secrets to make it easier then please, by all means let me know I would love to be able to run at these events and have some chance of winning. I know the heads up classes are harder to police and the more specific you get with them the less in each class, but for heads up classes your car is already set up for the rules and everything for that event, you don't have to spend as much time doing time trial runs and changing as you do for index to get your car dialed in. I'm saying this because I know, I was at the SBSO this year. It was pretty stressful trying to figure out what else can I do for that extra .10 to get me there, wondering why my 60' times suck compared to at my local track. And also last year at Thunder I did not participate, but I was in the stands and watching the heads-up racing was more fun too. I am just not one of those that says index racing sucks. I just give reason why I prefer heads-up over index. I will probably participate at the Thunder shootout this year weather they decided to have a SI class or just stick to the Cam only change class. Even though I know there is no way I can run my SI car against Mike H. cam car and win I think it would be a lot more fun just having my car already setup and just running it as fast as I can. I know there will be at least a few others (Priscilla) that are also SI right now that are probably going to run in that class too. But anyways, going back to my post above...you stated something about bigger payouts...will that also be true for the index classes? We don't want to be stuck running index ever single event for years. If the money is good we can mod more to compete in the heads-up classes

 

I think a few points need to be made about "Slow" headsup cars.

There is no such thing.

If you look at every entry level headsup class, you'll see 9 second cars. Does that seem entry level to you? I can see where some people are going with this, you want NA H/C or Stock Internal Classes. Heres the problem. There are people out there willing to sacrifice much more then others to win.When someone comes to the race and lays the smackdown on everyone, are you going to scream cheater? Probabaly..... Then the guy will have to tear his car apart. Everything in the engine would need to be scrutizined. This is a nightmare for the Event staff, and causes nothing but problems during and after the race.

The More rules a class has, the harder it is to police, and the more expensive the class becomes. I wouldn't expect to see ANY Headsup classes until the point where rebuilt engines are allowed. But guess what, even if you rebuild the engine, you aren't going to like headsup racing. While you build a nice little 450rwhp street engine, someone is going to build a loose, 13-15:1 Race engine and is going to run a full second ahead of you. Does that sound like fun?

I could make a Stock Internal Motor crack every Heads/Cam car currently built. I'm not interested in doing that, but my racecar would eat everyone elses cars for lunch.

Sorry folks, but headsup racing will always be about the money. My personal car has not ran for over 18 months, because like you, I want a headsup car, but I've came to terms that it takes alot of money, and a dedicated car to have a Headsup competitive vehicle. I'm almost done, "Wait till they get a load of me." Anyone think I can't run with the Big Dogs in the mid 8s
using only a Single Stage Plate? I'm gonna have to in order to stay legal for the Headsup class I built the car around. Thats what the front runners are running, 8.50s out of a single stage plate, on stock style suspension.

 

Quoted by Pro Stock John:

We have decided to add in all LT1 powered vehicles to next year... So if someone has a Impala SS with a built setup they can race too.


Pro Stock John,

You mentioned about adding a LT1 class and I knew that LT1's where running in the most recent N vs S shootout this year all of which the race I would assume you helped put together sounded to be a really fun race.

My question is regarding weather or not people would make a big deal about my car? From the looks of different threads posted on sites people sometimes are forgetting about the rules to a specific sponsored race. I respect the fact of putting on races that will hold classes for different indexs not to mention suspension limitations and most important limited to OEM engines. I heard about the great time people had at your race and the super fast OEM cars laying some wild times down. Sounds like a race I would love to attend next year but I'm not looking to try and pass my car off as a stock OEM chassis car with a LT1. A few of the posts on this thread complain about the certain motor combinations that where not allowed but because they have a F body with so called stock suspension some felt even though they where running a motor out side of the OEM configs that the race was biased. I couldn't agree any more with tech for not letting someone run at your race that had say a FAST TIMES built 500 ci SBC in a new f body. Hands down you know for the most part which motor is going to make more power at a race sponsored for cars asking to run and stay within the OEM configurations of engine.

The question I should have gotten to earlier was I would like to run your race next year but as your rules state stock suspension with OEM engines. I have a 94 Camaro Z28 but this past winted changed the whole chassis to be able to certify for super street. You see the chassis was redone chromoly 25.1D firewall back construction but I just so happen to have a very nasty nitrous assited LT1 I would love to put in for the race. Would I be able to run your lets say outlaw class? Like I said before I'm not trying to pass the car off as stock because that's the farthest thing this car is but I was wondering if I would be able to run at the event?

Sorry to keep going on,
Jim

 

I definately like the idea of having both Heads Up & Index classes at one race, provided there is time for it. The index clases are are a good place for the Bolt-On cars IMO. First off Bolt-Ons only would be a nightmare to police in reality. Also it levels the playing field for people. The majority of the LT1 (and LS1) bolt-on guys/girls do not have the resourses available that I and a FEW others have to take a bolt-on car to the extent I did. Sure a true bolt-on only class would be cool to see, but as soon as the few "ringers" show up the rest of the field is screwed... not too cool. Also once you put the bot-on LS & LT's together in the same class the average bolt-on LT1 car is really hurting then. I can easily see the indexs being used at this level.
Steve...