Which wideband 02 meter is the best for me?
 

OK, so I am getting my car tuned, and I want to get a wideband to help out. That way, I can keep tweeking it until I get it good, then strap her down on the dyno once, and only pay once, instead of a couple times. Jeff Creech is gonna do the tuning, via the internet. So, I need a wideband to log some driving so it helps him nail down the tune. So I have been looking at a couple ones... First:
http://wbo2.com/2e0/default.htm
This one looks pretty neat. It lists at 410 american dollars, I found one used for 300. What do you think? Is it user friendly or not?
The other one:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lm1.php
This one is a little cheaper at 350 new.

So, anyone use these, or would you recomend something else? I will admit, I am really green behind the ears with widebands, so let me know any and all things to look for, watch out for, whatever...
Thanks
Cody

Re: Which wideband 02 meter is the best for me?
 

Try looking at this thread...

http://64.65.63.61/forums/showthread...ight=wide+band

I like this one.... dual channel, with an alarm. Look under Air/Fuel Ratio Systems:

http://www.altronicsinc.com/

There is a new controller from NX that seems to provide all the above, plus costing a bit less, that was discussed in the N2) Tech forum a while back:

http://64.65.63.61/forums/showthread...ight=Altronics

Re: Which wideband 02 meter is the best for me?
 

ok ok, I read through all that, and I see this may be a heated topic. But, I too would like to know facts, not BS. So, with respect to everything, what products are being used on a N/A car? I know that is alot easier than a boosted car. I called my local MNfbody.com Innovative distributor, and was really pleased with his aswers. I did think highly of his product of course, but he was also quick to point out other products, prices, and features. So, he was not biased. He did say it was the quickest sampling unit available, but interestingly enought he didn't say what the exact rate was... I will call him again soon and find that out.

Re: Which wideband 02 meter is the best for me?
 

........I ended up designing and building a board using 2 Atmel Mega 88 processors that then communicate with an off the shelf $95 Mega 128 board. The 128 has camera flash memory chip interfaces allowing large (128, 256, 1 giga byte) of storage.

The weakness of the setup is NOT the O2 sensors it is the electronics that the off the shelf units provide. The sensor is capable of measuring the gas concentration accurately and doing so much faster than required for even individual cylinder trims through ~7000 RPM......

Re: Which wideband 02 meter is the best for me?
 

hey, no problem Injuneer. It is nice to not be the one being scolded though. I remember when I first started comin around this site, you warned me a couple times about hijacking and things like that that I didn't know what it even was! Well, I hope someone can post up some good info now! After they stop laughing at the posts in here of course!

Re: Which wideband 02 meter is the best for me?
 

I've got an Innovate LM1 with RPM module and found it to be very useful last summer when tuning my newly fuel injected Minirammed 385. I look forward to running it in parallel with the wide-band FAST XFI system to see what, if any differences might appear. I already have dual bungs in the headers.

Re: Which wideband 02 meter is the best for me?
 

Rather than continue the BS, I'm going to delete the problem posts, so you can get some responses.

Re: Which wideband 02 meter is the best for me?
 

What about this



http://www.plxdevices.com/R-500_productinfo.htm

http://www.plxdevices.com/R-Series-C...Main_Small.jpg[/QUOTE]

Re: Which wideband 02 meter is the best for me?
 

holly vagina! I almost creamed myself. How did you find that?? It looks efing sweet! Too bad I couldn't find a price tag for it though... that means if you have to ask how much it is, you probably can't afford it. But, I really really like the looks of that setup! Damn!

Re: Which wideband 02 meter is the best for me?
 

nevermind, I did find the price. 635 plus handling. But, that think looks mean as hell. It computes your hp and torque, your g force, and the one thing I was looking for, air-fuel ratio! lol. Now, I want to know if anyone has used that baby. It looks cool, but does it work good?

Re: Which wideband 02 meter is the best for me?
 

I do belive I creamed myself the first time I saw it also. I found it doing some some research on the ricer boards. Stock turbo car forums like wrx, evo, srt-4 etc are great boards for info on stuff like this. I come here to see if any V8 guys are using it and nobody replies. You really should look at all it can do. It's only like $500-$600 bucks. Ive been emailing back and fourth with them to find out if I can hook up other senders to it so it will also display trans temp, water temp, etc, etc. So far I'm 97% sold on it.

Re: Which wideband 02 meter is the best for me?
 

yeah I just read extensively on it. Looks pretty cool. Plus, it goes into a stock oxygen sensors location, which makes instalation even better. I can't decide if I want the 300 or 500. The 500 would be cool just for the dyno feature, but I know everyone will say it won't be very accurate. I think it would, but of course everyone would say go to the damn dyno. But, for 600 dollars, that baby better be pretty accurate on the dyno as far as hp and torque. So from what I gather, that 500 has the egt probe? Why would a N/A car need that? Just curious.... as it looks like this is mainly for a boosted car. So, can a stock LT1 knock sensor be wired into it? or do you need another special sensor from them? Basically, I want the unit to do AF ratio, rpm monitor with it, knock retard control, and watch the timing too. It looks like it would do it. So is this system designed to be a permanante install, or could you tune budies cars with it? Also, I am having someone help me with the tuning via the internet, and I suppose I need this thing to spit out tables or something that the tuner can look at to help modify my tuning as we go. I will be using tunercat and datamaster, do you know if this unit is compatable with either of those programs?? I am really interested in this unit. I am just wondering if this is overkill for my car thought, only pushing 450rwhp...

Re: Which wideband 02 meter is the best for me?
 

That's something I'm still reading into. According to the instructions it replaces the 02 which means your computer would be getting it's info from a wideband sensor. Oh yeah, it also mentions using a ressitor to make the computer think it's always at stoich which leaves all the monorting to you.

The dyno is just another tool. As long as it's consistant it will help you the same way any other dyno would. It may not give you the same numbers a real dyno would but as long as we remember a dyno is just a tuning aid the display dyno should serve it's purpose.


The more expensive one has the probe I belive. The one for $600+. It's just another tuning tool. Not one I would use alone though because to many thing can give false reading but once again, in conjuction with everything else it's just another tuning tool.



I havent researched that part yet. good question. I hope to find out soon.

It doesnt actually tune the car. It give you alot of different useful readings to help you tune it with an actuall tuning tool like TC's etc. With all the wiring that must be done I dont see how you could go from car to car. doesnt seem like thats it's purpose.



Datamaster>* that info is whats going to help your tuner the most. The R-500 from what I gather will help you monitor your car during daily operation etc. If you were a tuner and wanted to tune your own car this would be great combined with datamaster.



That depends on you. Alot of stuff we want might be overkill but you gotta admit it would be nice to have. I want it for peace of mind. I want to know whats going on and hope to be able to see things coming before it happens.


I'm no expert on any of this stuff. All the info I posted was stuff I found on the plx site and other numerous sites.

Re: Which wideband 02 meter is the best for me?
 

so basically, from what I gather, this thing is really only good if I was jeff creech and wanted to tune my own car? because, I don't really know jack about tuning, so I contacted jeff, and he said all I need is a good 02 wideband meter. I already have the laptop and cable. Hmm. decisions decisions. It would be cool to get it, but for what I am looking for maybe I should keep looking? Im not boosted, so it makes mine easier to tune, I think. But, on the other hand, having this in the car would be great. Always monitoring things, making sure it isn't gonna grenade on me! lol. Do you know if I could put this sensor in the exhuast down farther, and keep both narrow band sensors? Or would there be any gain from doin that? I would like both narrowband sensors to do their jobs, and not have the wideband sensor just send a false signal to the ecm.

Re: Which wideband 02 meter is the best for me?
 

Just a couple of quick notes on the Innovate stuff vs. the PLX. I believe that either will help you achieve what you are wanting to do. As in most of life, there are likely pros/cons to each.

FYI, the Innovate (LM-1, XD-16, LC-1) can also be used with the O2 sensor in the stock location. It will output a narrow band signal to your ECM/PCM as well as the wideband that you use for tuning. And of course if you have a compatible aftermarket ECM you can feed the wideband signal directly in. I have very little experience with that but I know a guy in our local club that is using it very effectively with an Electromotive setup.

Also, if you want some of the other features noted about the PLX, you can use Innovate's LMA-3. The LMA-3 (Auxbox) has 5 inputs that can be configured for:

Input 1: RPM, 0..5V, duty cycle, Frequency/speed measurement
Input 2: EGT, CHT, 0..5V, lateral acceleration
Input 3: duty cycle, frequency/speed, RPM, 0..5V, ign. timing
Input 4: MAP (3 bar), MAP (1 bar), 0..5V, frequency/speed, RPM, duty cycle
Input 5: acceleration, 0..5V, frequency/speed, RPM, duty cycle

In addition the LMA-3 can be used to log it's 5 channels stand-alone with a laptop. And it has built in accelerometers, calibrated MAP sensor (1 bar or 3 bar switchable) and a thermocouple amplifier (switchable sensitivity between EGT range and CHT range). It is also capable of measuring frequencies (from speed sensors, rpm and frequency based MAF sensors) and duty cycle on 4 of the 5 inputs, while the RPM converter can measure only 0..5V analog signals. Also it has a 5V output to supply external sensors.

Figured I would add to your confusion on what to buy!

Todd