States may get some say in emissions regulation
 

http://kdka.com/national/obama.car.e....2.917523.html



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Plunging into energy policy, President Barack Obama is poised to give states a freer hand in curbing emissions from cars, and to get his government moving on fuel-efficiency standards that could remake the auto industry.

Obama will announce his plans Monday at the White House, according to officials familiar with the details who spoke on condition of anonymity to avoid pre-empting the president.

The attention to energy comes as Obama heads into his first full week as president, with an agenda dominated by economic woes and a push to get a huge stimulus plan through Congress.

In one key move, Obama is aiming toward letting California and other states set their own tailpipe emission standards, a tool for reducing the gases that contribute to global warming.

And in the other, Obama will order the Transportation Department to enact short-term rules on how automakers can improve fuel efficiency of their new models based on a 2007 law.

On car emissions, California needed a waiver from the Clean Air Act to pursue its own course; the Bush administration's Environmental Protection Agency denied that permission, which affected at least 13 other states that have followed California's lead.

Obama will direct EPA regulators to re-examine California's case. The formal process will take time but is expected to end up in the states' favor. The Bush administration had rejected the request on grounds that a national fuel-efficiency strategy would work better.

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger has lobbied Obama to step in and reverse the decision. As a candidate for president, Obama pledged to overturn the EPA's denial.

"By beginning this process and directing EPA to review the Bush administration's lack of action, President Obama is turning the federal government into a force for positive change instead of a roadblock," said the Sierra Club's executive director, Carl Pope.

Obama is also expected to order new guidelines on fuel economy. The law requires that by 2020, new cars and trucks meet a standard of 35 miles per gallon, a 40 percent increase over the status quo. But the Bush administration did not set regulations in support of that law.

The president on Monday is also expected to tout proposals that he says would boost clean energy supplies while also producing badly needed jobs in so-called "green" industries.

Well that is what CA has waiting for. Get your V8 muscle cars while you can if you plan to drive and smog them here. Although amidst our serious budget crisis the lawmakers may not notice this for a while but when they do I’m sure gas guzzler taxes will be imposed on any vehicle not meeting the standard.

I don't understand what advantage there can possibly be in potentially having 50 different environmental regulation sets for vehciles.

California thinks the US gov't is moving too slow.

What most likely will happen is cars that don't average XX mpg will not be legal to sell in Cali.

The people that want 24mpg 505HP Corvettes, 24mpg G8 GTs, and 25mpg 390HP Challengers have nothing to fear. It is the 8mpg Hummer H2's and 14mpg hwy Bentleys that need to look out.

A 430HP Camaro is going to get better mileage than any V6 or V8 SUV on the market.

Quite frankly, screw California.

They aren't a country, they are part fo a country.

This really is borderline insane.

There are going to be all kinds of different environmental vehicle sets now... and when the govt is using one hand to prop up our automakers, they do lame things like this to kick out their knees from behind.

This is backwards, and unneeded. State and local govt should be for state and local issues, not country-wise issues.

It means nothing to us that don't live in California :shrug:

What would be nicer is if the US/Canada and Europe used the same standards for emissions so we could get some of those engines used in the European cars here sooner. 2.9L Diesel CTS for example.

Well, you could say it is a very local issue. The pollution from cars bought and driven in LA stays in LA.

Saddly they are trying to mandate these things without thinking of the COSTS associated with making such a vehicle. Not to mention if it's even possible... gasoline only has so much energy and engines only get so efficient.

If GM or any car company passed on the true costs of making a greener car, no one would want to buy one.


Not with the bull**** CA tries to get passed. If it was up to them everything without pedals would be off the road.

so?

its california, not the rest of the country. when they suddenly can't buy what they want maybe the average person would finally give a damn.

Doesn't work that way. In fact, it's illegal.

California established it's own emissions regulation before the Federal Government did, and because of that California has long established special treatment that enables it to set it's own emission standards independent of the feds with nothing more than a waiver.

It's been that way for 40 years, and has never been an issue.

All states can choose which standard they want to follow, but are limited to either the Federal standard or the California standard, but they are unable to make their own.


What is different this time is that by claiming CO2 as an emission, and that the only way to decrease CO2 is by burning less fuel, California is through the back door steping into the area of Fuel economy... an issue that can be only decided on a Federal level via the EPA.

This is what the whole argument centers around.

California via the Central Valley and the LA basin has 2 very important areas that often have stagnant air surrounded by mountains that create pretty nasty air, which prompted California to adopt pollution standards before the nation caught on. By regulating CO2, California steps beyond the boundaries of the state and (IMO, like most Prius drivers I've met) seek to make a statement more than doing something practical (ie: working on a Federal level).

Where Bush screwed up is that instead of providing sound advice to deny California's request Cheney pretty much directed the EPA to flat out reject it with no real reason to back it up, which they did. If they at least did a feasibility study on the thing, or an economic impact study, or made a compromise via the federal standards, or gave an approval to part of the proposal, it would have been settled and likely not reopened. Thing is they should have done something to give credibility to the decision (otherwise known as "Political Cover".


States that have adopted California emission standards (and would also adopt new CO2 regulations) are: Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, Vermont and Washington.

These states will shortly join California's emission standards, and would likely have them in place by the time any C02 standard would be in place: Arizona, Colorado, Florida, New Mexico and Utah.

Illinois has joined California in pushing for CO2 standards, and is also in the process of adopting California standards.

As you can see, this isn't simply a California issue. Each state mentioned is attempting to push beyond the Federal standard, but because they are restricted to the California standard, they are lining up with Cali.... and as you can also see, it isn't simply a bunch of deep-blue, treehugging states.



Personally, I feel that since California's pollution issue has been essentially resolved successfully, and that federal standards are now friendly with California standards, that there should be a single national standard on both emissions and fuel economy.

At the same time, seeing that 400 horsepower, V8 powered, 2 ton vehicles can reach 26mpg on the freeway, and how performance survived far more aggressive and dramatic fuel economy regulations in the 80s, I'm not pessimistic at all about the future of performance.

Afterall, a 350 horse LS1 Camaro was rated at 25 mpg 10 years ago (under the new standard) without Displacement On Demand, Direct Injection, or Variable Timing. It's not hard to imagine a 5.3 V8 easily doing much more mileage with the same power output... with similar performance results in a same weight (3500lb) vehicle.

I'm curious to know if there will be any way to buy a vehicle (in one of the Cali-emissions states) that doesn't meet the C02 limits. I believe I read that what they are shooting for would require 40+ mpg. If so, doesn't that mean goodbye to anything that doesn't get 40+ mpg?

Well I can tell you that if the CA lawmakers get the green light from Washington DC they will set the bar very high. They will also move to make up for lost ground that Bush held them back and go even further to prove a point. They won't out law low mpg vehicles but will just charge a large gas guzzler tax to them. So yes the Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, G8 GT/GXP and worse F150/Silverado/Ram/Tundra buyer will have a lot to worry about because it's going to hit them in the pocket book a lot harder than the people that can afford a Bentley or Ferrari. (Hummer may not even be around by then and if they are any large tax on them will destroy what sales would be left.)

And what of the folks that need these types of vehicles (trucks)? What do y'all think will happen to them? Will there be some sort of waiver for them to get? Will the auto companies still be able to produce these types of vehicles since they wont meet the new mileage standards?

Should I go ahead and buy that early-70's Chevy pickup I've been wanting now before they become super rare? :p

I've learned never to underestimate the ability by our beloved legislature to mismanage even a good idea, much less a bad one.

I don't think you'll have a lot to worry about up in AK :lol:

Nope. New York follows California standards for cars. So we get to decide what you can buy :D

Would be nice, but it won't happen.


Nope. The context here is carbon emissions and their effect on global warming. Carbon emitted in New York affects climate just as much as carbon emitted in L.A.

Over half the U.S. population will be covered by these rules, so this will affect cars you can buy in Florida, Texas, Indiana, etc., too. I don't see manufacturers developing cars that can only be sold in a fraction of the country.


Look how excited Pennsylvanians are about this:

http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayRe...4960748&EDATE=

That'll be true for all those that follow California. :(

Lets keep "global warming" out of this thread before it goes into a huge insanity blast and gets locked. That goes to everyone that posts. :cool:

My memory might be a bit off, but last I remembered, burning extremely lean (to reduce c02) spikes other emissions. Regulating both becomes a double edged sword.

In terms of Class 7/8 diesel emissions, the equipment takes up a LOT of space and has a dramatic effect on the cost of the truck. I suspect DI will become standard on every car sold in california in a hurry. I feel that is a good thing.

GM has yet to publicly release a 5.3L V8 or 4.9L V8 into any car with those features and show epa numbers. But I agree. My question is, we heard about the DI LS2 (or was it LS3? or L76?) in an Escalade a WHILE ago. Why hasnt GM implemented this? Has development gone wrong, or are they saving their technologies so that the govt doesnt try and push them for even higher mpg?

Oh and we need diesels in cars. Like yesterday.