Should Ford consider bringing back the 'Probe'
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Should Ford consider bringing back the 'Probe'
Should Ford consider bringing back the 'Probe' name as a 4 cylinder only and/or hybrid sports coupe?
Ford Reflex concept above.
http://www.performanceprobe.com/text/info/history.htm
The Probe was a joint venture between Ford and Mazda. It marked the first time a Japanese automaker had come into Detroit's backyard to produce a car for a U.S. affiliate. It was manufactured at the new $550 million AutoAlliance International Incorporated assembly plant in Flat Rock, Michigan, right along side Mazda's MX-6 and 626 coupes with which it shared most of its understructure.
The Probe was first brought to life in 1979 as a highly aerodynamic concept car. In 1982, as gas prices soared, Ford began work on what was to be the new fourth generation Mustang, replacing the old, bulky rear wheel drive muscle car design with a sleek, fuel efficient front wheel drive design of tomorrow, and like previous models, designed, engineered, and built by Ford. It was also an attempt to counter General Motors' GM80 plan, which was to offer a front wheel drive Firebird/Camaro platform by 1990. The new design was coded the SN8 and was lead by Barry Johnson. In early 1983, Ford got out of the engineering side of the equation when it struck a deal with Mazda, of whom Ford owned 25%, giving Johnson and his team the Mazda 626 as a platform to build their new car on. The 626 platform was exactly what Ford was looking for, small with front-wheel drive. Toshi Saito, a designer from Ford's North American Design Center, was in charge of designing the new Mustang's exterior beginning in the summer of 1982. He designed a series of concept sketches for the Mustang, of which, the team selected several that they felt best met Ford's needs and presented them to top management. They selected the ones they liked the best and Saito went back with full-sized tape drawings of their choices.
Out of those, Ford's management picked two they liked the best and Saito went to work on full-sized clay sculptures of their choices. When he was complete, a final selection was made. In September of 1983, a fiberglass model of the selection was made and shipped to Mazda headquarters in Hiroshima, Japan along with with Ford's four person styling team in charge of designing the new Mustang–Barry Johnson, Toshi Saito, a designer/engineer, and a secretary– to complete the production work on what was now code-named the ST16. Room 321 at Mazda headquarters became a home away from home, Ford's Dearborn Far East control center for the Mustang.
Once they team arrived in Japan, the problems started. Mazda's management approved the car's design, but Ford quickly began to question it. They were concerned that the design, originally slated for an earlier production date, might seem dated by the time the car finally reach production. Saito immediately began work on another series of sketches which included new, sportier lines. Ford was stretching the design boundaries because the car was expected to be the next generation Mustang. The feasibility process was trying. Ford insisted on a lower cowl, a lower hood, a lower nose, and a more steeply raked windshield than Mazda was prepared to produce. Radical wraparound quarter glass and a frameless glass hatch were also on Ford's list. In December of 1983, Saito's new design was approved by Ford's management in Dearborn, and was presented to Mazda's management. Mazda's engineers weren't happy, but it was approved, and the car was re-engineered to fit the new design. When all aspects of the design were approved by both Ford and Mazda's management, it was released to Mazda and a complex follow-through procedure was set up to make sure everything agreed with the original specifications.
Many questions began to rise about the new car, one being where to Probe was to be built. Mazda had been considering building a plant in the United States and Ford had a closed up casting plant available in Flat Rock, Michigan, 15 miles south of Ford World Headquarters in Dearborn. After Lengthy negotiations, Mazda purchased the property from Ford, converted the plant into a warehouse, and built a modern assembly plant next to it. Here, the Mustang would be built along side of its structural twin, the Mazda 626 and MX-6.
Under their skin, the new Mustang, MX-6, and 626 were the same. The Mustang, like the MX-6 and 626, was to be a front-wheel drive vehicle with a transversely mounted 2.0-liter 4-cylinder Mazda engine. They'd share Mazda's electronic engine-control systems and port fuel injection. The Mustang GT would get the 626 GT's turbocharger mounted on the same 2.0-liter 4-cylinder. The turbocharger was to be replaced the following year by Mazda's single overhead cam V6, rated at 175 horsepower, while the base Mustangs will be offered an optional V6, which, at the time, was available in the Ford Taurus. With its combination of sleek but aggressive lines, the new Mustang was both distinctive and instantly likable. The relatively unadorned GL and LX versions boasted a drag coefficient of 0.308. The GT, with its wider tires, additional front fascia openings, and spoiler was only slightly less efficient, with a drag coefficient of 0.312.
Unfortunately, when news of the new Mustang hit the public, criticism mounted against it. Critics complained of the new Mustang’s front wheel drive configuration, Japanese heritage, and lack of a V8. The current Mustang's sales began to rise and the future of fuel burning V8s were no longer questioned. With easing gas prices and being under the strain of a massive letter writing campaign from Mustang enthusiasts, Ford went to work on a new design for the Mustang. The sleek Ford/Mazda sports coupe slated to be the next generation Mustang now needed a new name. With the dealer preview coming up, where the Ford/Mazda coupe was suppose to make its debut in August of 1987, Ford turned to its inventory of already owned names. They picked one they had been using on a series of radically designed, aerodynamically advanced concept cars, from which the car’s design was originally premiered. The new Ford was to be named the Ford Probe.
In May of ’88, at the Chicago Auto Show, the first Ford Probe was introduced to the public as the 1989 model. The 2.0-liter 4-cylinder originally expected to power the new coupe was replaced with Mazda's 2.2-liter 4-cylinder engine with a single overhead cam, aluminum head, three valves per cylinder, and low-maintenance hydraulic valve-lash adjusters. The base engine produced 110hp at 4700 rpm and 130 foot/pounds of torque at 3000 rpm. The more energetic GT powerplant added a Mitsubishi/IHI turbocharger and an intercooler to the intake tract, as well as a knock sensor and electronic boost control to the engine-control system. The entire arrangement was calibrated to provide midrange output; the maximum boost pressure rises to 9.3 psi in the vicinity of 3000 rpm, tapering down to 7.3 psi elsewhere. The results were 145 hp at a 4300 rpm power peak and a healthy 167 foot/pounds of torque at 2000 rpm that increased to 190 foot/pounds of torque at 3500 rpm. Within one month, Ford dealers had ordered over 100,000 Probes to supply the public's demand for the aerodynamic sports coupe.
1979 Probe Concept
1985 Probe Concept
1989 Production Ford Probe
Ford Reflex concept above.
http://www.performanceprobe.com/text/info/history.htm
The Probe was a joint venture between Ford and Mazda. It marked the first time a Japanese automaker had come into Detroit's backyard to produce a car for a U.S. affiliate. It was manufactured at the new $550 million AutoAlliance International Incorporated assembly plant in Flat Rock, Michigan, right along side Mazda's MX-6 and 626 coupes with which it shared most of its understructure.
The Probe was first brought to life in 1979 as a highly aerodynamic concept car. In 1982, as gas prices soared, Ford began work on what was to be the new fourth generation Mustang, replacing the old, bulky rear wheel drive muscle car design with a sleek, fuel efficient front wheel drive design of tomorrow, and like previous models, designed, engineered, and built by Ford. It was also an attempt to counter General Motors' GM80 plan, which was to offer a front wheel drive Firebird/Camaro platform by 1990. The new design was coded the SN8 and was lead by Barry Johnson. In early 1983, Ford got out of the engineering side of the equation when it struck a deal with Mazda, of whom Ford owned 25%, giving Johnson and his team the Mazda 626 as a platform to build their new car on. The 626 platform was exactly what Ford was looking for, small with front-wheel drive. Toshi Saito, a designer from Ford's North American Design Center, was in charge of designing the new Mustang's exterior beginning in the summer of 1982. He designed a series of concept sketches for the Mustang, of which, the team selected several that they felt best met Ford's needs and presented them to top management. They selected the ones they liked the best and Saito went back with full-sized tape drawings of their choices.
Out of those, Ford's management picked two they liked the best and Saito went to work on full-sized clay sculptures of their choices. When he was complete, a final selection was made. In September of 1983, a fiberglass model of the selection was made and shipped to Mazda headquarters in Hiroshima, Japan along with with Ford's four person styling team in charge of designing the new Mustang–Barry Johnson, Toshi Saito, a designer/engineer, and a secretary– to complete the production work on what was now code-named the ST16. Room 321 at Mazda headquarters became a home away from home, Ford's Dearborn Far East control center for the Mustang.
Once they team arrived in Japan, the problems started. Mazda's management approved the car's design, but Ford quickly began to question it. They were concerned that the design, originally slated for an earlier production date, might seem dated by the time the car finally reach production. Saito immediately began work on another series of sketches which included new, sportier lines. Ford was stretching the design boundaries because the car was expected to be the next generation Mustang. The feasibility process was trying. Ford insisted on a lower cowl, a lower hood, a lower nose, and a more steeply raked windshield than Mazda was prepared to produce. Radical wraparound quarter glass and a frameless glass hatch were also on Ford's list. In December of 1983, Saito's new design was approved by Ford's management in Dearborn, and was presented to Mazda's management. Mazda's engineers weren't happy, but it was approved, and the car was re-engineered to fit the new design. When all aspects of the design were approved by both Ford and Mazda's management, it was released to Mazda and a complex follow-through procedure was set up to make sure everything agreed with the original specifications.
Many questions began to rise about the new car, one being where to Probe was to be built. Mazda had been considering building a plant in the United States and Ford had a closed up casting plant available in Flat Rock, Michigan, 15 miles south of Ford World Headquarters in Dearborn. After Lengthy negotiations, Mazda purchased the property from Ford, converted the plant into a warehouse, and built a modern assembly plant next to it. Here, the Mustang would be built along side of its structural twin, the Mazda 626 and MX-6.
Under their skin, the new Mustang, MX-6, and 626 were the same. The Mustang, like the MX-6 and 626, was to be a front-wheel drive vehicle with a transversely mounted 2.0-liter 4-cylinder Mazda engine. They'd share Mazda's electronic engine-control systems and port fuel injection. The Mustang GT would get the 626 GT's turbocharger mounted on the same 2.0-liter 4-cylinder. The turbocharger was to be replaced the following year by Mazda's single overhead cam V6, rated at 175 horsepower, while the base Mustangs will be offered an optional V6, which, at the time, was available in the Ford Taurus. With its combination of sleek but aggressive lines, the new Mustang was both distinctive and instantly likable. The relatively unadorned GL and LX versions boasted a drag coefficient of 0.308. The GT, with its wider tires, additional front fascia openings, and spoiler was only slightly less efficient, with a drag coefficient of 0.312.
Unfortunately, when news of the new Mustang hit the public, criticism mounted against it. Critics complained of the new Mustang’s front wheel drive configuration, Japanese heritage, and lack of a V8. The current Mustang's sales began to rise and the future of fuel burning V8s were no longer questioned. With easing gas prices and being under the strain of a massive letter writing campaign from Mustang enthusiasts, Ford went to work on a new design for the Mustang. The sleek Ford/Mazda sports coupe slated to be the next generation Mustang now needed a new name. With the dealer preview coming up, where the Ford/Mazda coupe was suppose to make its debut in August of 1987, Ford turned to its inventory of already owned names. They picked one they had been using on a series of radically designed, aerodynamically advanced concept cars, from which the car’s design was originally premiered. The new Ford was to be named the Ford Probe.
In May of ’88, at the Chicago Auto Show, the first Ford Probe was introduced to the public as the 1989 model. The 2.0-liter 4-cylinder originally expected to power the new coupe was replaced with Mazda's 2.2-liter 4-cylinder engine with a single overhead cam, aluminum head, three valves per cylinder, and low-maintenance hydraulic valve-lash adjusters. The base engine produced 110hp at 4700 rpm and 130 foot/pounds of torque at 3000 rpm. The more energetic GT powerplant added a Mitsubishi/IHI turbocharger and an intercooler to the intake tract, as well as a knock sensor and electronic boost control to the engine-control system. The entire arrangement was calibrated to provide midrange output; the maximum boost pressure rises to 9.3 psi in the vicinity of 3000 rpm, tapering down to 7.3 psi elsewhere. The results were 145 hp at a 4300 rpm power peak and a healthy 167 foot/pounds of torque at 2000 rpm that increased to 190 foot/pounds of torque at 3500 rpm. Within one month, Ford dealers had ordered over 100,000 Probes to supply the public's demand for the aerodynamic sports coupe.
1979 Probe Concept
1985 Probe Concept
1989 Production Ford Probe
September 1979 Ford introduced the Probe I concept vehicle
November 1979 Ford buys a 25% stake in Toyo Kogyo of Japan, later to become Mazda.
September 1980 Ford introduced the Probe II concept vehicle
September 1982 Ford Introduced the Probe III concept vehicle
1983 Ford introduced the Probe IV concept vehicle
1985 Ford introduced the Probe V concept vehicle
August 28, 1987 The name 'Probe' was officially adopted as the new car's name.
January 1988 Mazda begins building the Ford Probe at Mazda Motor Manufacturing Corporation in Flat Rock, Michigan.
May 12, 1988 Ford intoduces the Probe at the Chicago Auto Show.
June 1988 The 100,000th Ford Probe is ordered.
June 1992 Mazda Motor Manufacturing Corporation is restructured as equal partnership with Ford, renamed AutoAlliance International Inc.
July 1, 1992 Ford acquires 50 percent of Mazda Motor Manufacturing and renames the company AutoAlliance International, under which the Probe is built.
August 1992 Ford introduces the second generation Ford Probe.
April 30, 1993 Production of new CD4E automatic transaxle starts at Batavia Transmission Plant in Ohio. The 1994 Probe is one of the vehicles slated to receive the new transaxle.
June 1, 1993 The 1994 Ford Probe becomes one of the first cars to have dual air bags as standard equipment.
June 10, 1994 Ford introduces U.S.-built Ford Probe GT and Japanese-built Ford Laser in Japan.
November 27, 1995 Lear Seating Corporation of Romulus, Michigan receives Ford's "Most Valued Supplier" award for the manufacturing of the seats in the Ford Probe.
April 1996 Ford takes effective control of Mazda.
March 17, 1997 Ford announces discontinuation of the Probe, Thunderbird, Cougar, and Aerostar.
November 1979 Ford buys a 25% stake in Toyo Kogyo of Japan, later to become Mazda.
September 1980 Ford introduced the Probe II concept vehicle
September 1982 Ford Introduced the Probe III concept vehicle
1983 Ford introduced the Probe IV concept vehicle
1985 Ford introduced the Probe V concept vehicle
August 28, 1987 The name 'Probe' was officially adopted as the new car's name.
January 1988 Mazda begins building the Ford Probe at Mazda Motor Manufacturing Corporation in Flat Rock, Michigan.
May 12, 1988 Ford intoduces the Probe at the Chicago Auto Show.
June 1988 The 100,000th Ford Probe is ordered.
June 1992 Mazda Motor Manufacturing Corporation is restructured as equal partnership with Ford, renamed AutoAlliance International Inc.
July 1, 1992 Ford acquires 50 percent of Mazda Motor Manufacturing and renames the company AutoAlliance International, under which the Probe is built.
August 1992 Ford introduces the second generation Ford Probe.
April 30, 1993 Production of new CD4E automatic transaxle starts at Batavia Transmission Plant in Ohio. The 1994 Probe is one of the vehicles slated to receive the new transaxle.
June 1, 1993 The 1994 Ford Probe becomes one of the first cars to have dual air bags as standard equipment.
June 10, 1994 Ford introduces U.S.-built Ford Probe GT and Japanese-built Ford Laser in Japan.
November 27, 1995 Lear Seating Corporation of Romulus, Michigan receives Ford's "Most Valued Supplier" award for the manufacturing of the seats in the Ford Probe.
April 1996 Ford takes effective control of Mazda.
March 17, 1997 Ford announces discontinuation of the Probe, Thunderbird, Cougar, and Aerostar.
Last edited by johnsocal; Jun 14, 2009 at 12:40 AM.
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If it does come back, hopefully it'll be called something other than "probe". That's a horrible name.
I think the current lineup is fine with the addition of a sporty focus. A turbocharged Focus ST or RS would fill the Fwd sports coupe/hatch segment very well. A vehicle like the probe wouldn't be necessary imo.
I think the current lineup is fine with the addition of a sporty focus. A turbocharged Focus ST or RS would fill the Fwd sports coupe/hatch segment very well. A vehicle like the probe wouldn't be necessary imo.
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Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 10,285
From: Albany, NY
I also think Probe is a bad name. But I like the idea of a sport hybrid or 4cyl. coupe. Something that can get 40mpg (city or hwy) and fit nicely under the Mustang.
I'd also like to see the Milan dropped and a Fusion coupe added.
I'd also like to see the Milan dropped and a Fusion coupe added.
Last edited by Z28x; Jun 14, 2009 at 07:31 AM.
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From: Sarasota FL
My ex-girlfriend had a 1st year gen 2 '93 Probe base model...a simple 4 cyl M5 with no adds. What a fun little car that had a great style to it, and got 35 MPG doing 75 on the highway...in the middle of VT winters...with studded snows on it.
The great thing about the Probe was the style, sitting low, having respectable handling, but still being FWD and getting decent MPG. No one makes a car like that anymore, aside from an Eclipse coupe...
And who the hell wants one of those anymore??
New Gen Probe is way > than Focus coupe.
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Posts: 1,724
From: Hebron, KY
I've known a couple Probe owners and they really liked their cars, especially the handling.
The much scrutinized coupe market might have a tough time supporting another entry, but I could possibly see something filling the gap between Focus and Mustang. The problem is the new Focus should be a more desirable car and will be really popular if they bring over the hot-hatch varieties. Add to that the new Fiesta which will cover the entry level now, and the Focus in general has a smaller gap between it and the Mustang.
The real opening, to me, would be to move a would-be Probe to Lincoln/Mercury dealerships as a new Cougar. The Cougar saw success most recently because it was stylish, probably the most significant part of the sporty coupe market. Give it a decent base 4-cyl and the powetrain from the top-Focus and it'll please the FWD enthusiasts. With aggressive styling and priced right, topping out where the Mustang starts or just above, you'll have a winner while giving Mercury a much-needed shot in the arm.
FWIW, I also like "Cougar" over "Probe" as far as monikers go.
Borrow some cues from the recent Messenger concept and translate them to a FWD coupe.
The much scrutinized coupe market might have a tough time supporting another entry, but I could possibly see something filling the gap between Focus and Mustang. The problem is the new Focus should be a more desirable car and will be really popular if they bring over the hot-hatch varieties. Add to that the new Fiesta which will cover the entry level now, and the Focus in general has a smaller gap between it and the Mustang.
The real opening, to me, would be to move a would-be Probe to Lincoln/Mercury dealerships as a new Cougar. The Cougar saw success most recently because it was stylish, probably the most significant part of the sporty coupe market. Give it a decent base 4-cyl and the powetrain from the top-Focus and it'll please the FWD enthusiasts. With aggressive styling and priced right, topping out where the Mustang starts or just above, you'll have a winner while giving Mercury a much-needed shot in the arm.
FWIW, I also like "Cougar" over "Probe" as far as monikers go.
Borrow some cues from the recent Messenger concept and translate them to a FWD coupe.
Last edited by jrp4uc; Jun 14, 2009 at 02:00 PM.
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From: Richmond, VA
The real opening, to me, would be to move a would-be Probe to Lincoln/Mercury dealerships as a new Cougar. The Cougar saw success most recently because it was stylish, probably the most significant part of the sporty coupe market. Give it a decent base 4-cyl and the powetrain from the top-Focus and it'll please the FWD enthusiasts. With aggressive styling and priced right, topping out where the Mustang starts or just above, you'll have a winner while giving Mercury a much-needed shot in the arm.
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From: SeVa
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Posts: 13,713
From: The Golden State
The "Probe" name was supposed to mean probing the future or probing a new direction in automotive design.
As everyone may have figured out by now, sometimes automotive "namers" have a serious disconect with the general public.
Probe was actually a very good car and pushed the design enevlope without looking weird. But the name created alot of jabs and jokes... most of them medical or sexually related.
I agree, Probe was a bad name... on a good car.
Trivia you probably have known... or maybe not:
1. Probe was supposed to be the new Mustang.
2. The original turbo 4 Probe GT was significantly underrated in horsepower.
3. The Ford Probe actually sold very well. Like the MN12 Thunderbird, Probe (though sales were down significantly) was actually selling very well next to it's competoitors when it was killed. Like the Thunderbird, it's death was more of a gap before it went into a new direction.
2. The last Mercury Cougar (called Ford Cougar outside North America... it was sold globally in both Left and Right hand drive) was actually the 3rd generation Probe.
As everyone may have figured out by now, sometimes automotive "namers" have a serious disconect with the general public.
Probe was actually a very good car and pushed the design enevlope without looking weird. But the name created alot of jabs and jokes... most of them medical or sexually related.
I agree, Probe was a bad name... on a good car.
Trivia you probably have known... or maybe not:
1. Probe was supposed to be the new Mustang.
2. The original turbo 4 Probe GT was significantly underrated in horsepower.
3. The Ford Probe actually sold very well. Like the MN12 Thunderbird, Probe (though sales were down significantly) was actually selling very well next to it's competoitors when it was killed. Like the Thunderbird, it's death was more of a gap before it went into a new direction.
2. The last Mercury Cougar (called Ford Cougar outside North America... it was sold globally in both Left and Right hand drive) was actually the 3rd generation Probe.
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I've owned 2 Probes. They are VERY fun cars. The 2nd Gen (93-97) V6 engines are some of the smoothest, rev-happy engines you'll find. The cars handle and brake very well in stock form too. They're lightweight, and you can fit a LOT of stuff in the hatch. I had 2 full size mountain bikes in the back of mine (this may be do-able in a 4th Gen F-body...). I've seen pictures of someone transporting a couch in one 
A Focus doesn't offer the sporty, fun to drive characteristics and good looks to the same degree that the Probe offered.
And another interesting fact. The Ford Probe concept of 85 had one of the lowest drag coefficients of any automobile at 0.137. About 1/2 to 1/3 of the drag coefficient of typical cars today (.3-.45)
A Focus doesn't offer the sporty, fun to drive characteristics and good looks to the same degree that the Probe offered.
And another interesting fact. The Ford Probe concept of 85 had one of the lowest drag coefficients of any automobile at 0.137. About 1/2 to 1/3 of the drag coefficient of typical cars today (.3-.45)
Last edited by Koz2; Jun 15, 2009 at 10:50 AM.
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The big problem is this segment of sporty FWD coupes is diminishing greatly. The modern "secretary car" appears to be a RAV4.
I remember reading that apparently a lot of women associated the name with a trip to the gynecologist. 
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