No cash for GM yet.....
12-11-2008, 02:12 PM
#16
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Milton, FL
Posts: 3,604
12-11-2008, 02:13 PM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Marlton NJ
Posts: 2,414
People don't buy cars when they don't have confidence that the company will be around to warranty them as well as provide parts for them.
A large amount of $$$ in the price of a new car is the warranty. People aren't going to spend money on buying cars from a company that won't be there. Ever heard of Daewoo?
12-11-2008, 02:14 PM
#18
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,173
That's why I think the bailout is a terrible idea. The problem is already with the perceived quality of American cars. They really are a lot better now than the were in the 90s. In order to convince Americans of that and stimulate sales, I think that instead of giving the Big 3 the money, Congress should pass a $2,000 - $5,000 tax credit (not deduction) for every American vehicle purchased. That would get people into showrooms and put American car sales through the roof.
The greenies would love it because you can base the size of the tax credit on the fuel economy instead of the cost of the vehicle (i.e., a Cobalt would get $5,000 back and an H2 would get $2,000).
The greenies would love it because you can base the size of the tax credit on the fuel economy instead of the cost of the vehicle (i.e., a Cobalt would get $5,000 back and an H2 would get $2,000).
12-11-2008, 02:28 PM
#19
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,173
12-11-2008, 02:41 PM
#20
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Indianapolis, In, USA
Posts: 167
Bankruptcy does mean out of business for GM.
People don't buy cars when they don't have confidence that the company will be around to warranty them as well as provide parts for them.
A large amount of $$$ in the price of a new car is the warranty. People aren't going to spend money on buying cars from a company that won't be there. Ever heard of Daewoo?
People don't buy cars when they don't have confidence that the company will be around to warranty them as well as provide parts for them.
A large amount of $$$ in the price of a new car is the warranty. People aren't going to spend money on buying cars from a company that won't be there. Ever heard of Daewoo?
Well, maybe the UAW ought to think about re-negotiating their contracts without GM going into bankruptcy to save their own jobs.
12-11-2008, 02:44 PM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Alta Loma, CA
Posts: 1,320
They really don't. 
Have you actually done any REAL comparisons lately, or are you just part of the Kool-Aid drinking crowd that just assumes everything foreign is better.
YOU may feel it's better to just let all major products become imports, but that isn't the best case for the country.
Have you actually done any REAL comparisons lately, or are you just part of the Kool-Aid drinking crowd that just assumes everything foreign is better.
YOU may feel it's better to just let all major products become imports, but that isn't the best case for the country.
12-11-2008, 03:16 PM
#22
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Panhandle of West Virginia
Posts: 1,548
The used to be about 25 players in DIP financing, there is now 1 which would make Chp. 11 without government backing impossible. The airlines are an industry people have to live with for short periods of time, a car is a long term investment and people don't want a product that may be gone tomorrow including warranty service and backing. The government is on the hook either way at this point.
12-11-2008, 03:25 PM
#23
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Indianapolis, In, USA
Posts: 167
The used to be about 25 players in DIP financing, there is now 1 which would make Chp. 11 without government backing impossible. The airlines are an industry people have to live with for short periods of time, a car is a long term investment and people don't want a product that may be gone tomorrow including warranty service and backing. The government is on the hook either way at this point.
I have always bought American when it comes to cars. However, though I am not excluding American for my next purchase, I am going to take a good look at imports. This decission is based both on this whole mess, as well as the quality problems my girlfriend has had with her G6.
12-11-2008, 03:32 PM
#24
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: BFE, Ohio
Posts: 1,504
Actually they have offered to re-open the most recent contract and renegotiate. They also suspended the job bank, which cost the big three $478 million last year. I think they finally realize their *** is on the line.
12-11-2008, 05:53 PM
#25
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: Panhandle of West Virginia
Posts: 1,548
Do you really think the government having to bail them out is going to make people feel any better about the company than a bankruptcy. Either way, to me, it says the company is in bad shape.
I have always bought American when it comes to cars. However, though I am not excluding American for my next purchase, I am going to take a good look at imports. This decission is based both on this whole mess, as well as the quality problems my girlfriend has had with her G6.
I have always bought American when it comes to cars. However, though I am not excluding American for my next purchase, I am going to take a good look at imports. This decission is based both on this whole mess, as well as the quality problems my girlfriend has had with her G6.
Last edited by scott9050; 12-11-2008 at 05:57 PM.
12-11-2008, 06:00 PM
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
If I have to judge a car manufacturer by its past 2-3 years of build history vs. its 10-15 years of build history, something is friggin wrong.
*waits for the members to pull out their Auto Trend/JD Power magazines/<insert magazine here that ranked GM high> and begin citing 'Best Gas mileage blah blah blah blah*
*waits for the members to pull out their Auto Trend/JD Power magazines/<insert magazine here that ranked GM high> and begin citing 'Best Gas mileage blah blah blah blah*
12-11-2008, 06:01 PM
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Elburn, IL
Posts: 100
Seriously screw em. They had a crappy business model and its coming back to bite them in the ***. Let them fail. If 2 million people lose their jobs then so be it. If the country fails because of that, so be it. If we didnt fall apart during the great depression, we wont fall here because GM goes under.
12-11-2008, 06:05 PM
#28
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: BFE, Ohio
Posts: 1,504
Seriously screw em. They had a crappy business model and its coming back to bite them in the ***. Let them fail. If 2 million people lose their jobs then so be it. If the country fails because of that, so be it. If we didnt fall apart during the great depression, we wont fall here because GM goes under.
12-11-2008, 06:09 PM
#29
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Alta Loma, CA
Posts: 1,320
Seriously screw em. They had a crappy business model and its coming back to bite them in the ***. Let them fail. If 2 million people lose their jobs then so be it. If the country fails because of that, so be it. If we didnt fall apart during the great depression, we wont fall here because GM goes under.
Without GM being around, there will be no new Camaro and eventually the popularity of the older models will fall to a point that there wont be enough advertisers for this site to stay up and running.
Then you will have to find somewhere else to hang out on the Internet and post lame crap.
12-12-2008, 08:31 AM
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: Indianapolis, In, USA
Posts: 167
WASHINGTON – The auto industry's cash-flow crisis has landed back at the White House doorstep and no "Welcome" mat is yet in sight.
"For God sakes, I hope the presidentf acts," Mayor Virg Bernero of Lansing, Mich., exclaimed Friday morning.
General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC, which have said they could run out of cash within weeks, have few options left after the dramatic defeat in the Senate of a $14 billion bailout for the domestic auto industry.
Its demise late Thursday prompted immediate calls from lawmakers in both parties for the Bush administration to tap into the $700 billion Wall Street bailout to rescue the beleaguered auto industry. The bill failed after talks broke down over the [BOLD]refusal of the United Auto Workers union to meet Republican demands for aggressive wage reductions[/BOLD].
The Senate rejected the bailout 52-35 on a procedural vote — well short of the 60 required — after the talks fell apart.
"I dread looking at Wall Street," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in anticipation of Friday's stock market reaction. "It's not going to be a pleasant sight."
Indeed, stock markets in Asia and Europe dropped sharply on Friday after getting word of the bailout's failure, and U.S. markets were set to plunge when trading opened. Dow Jones industrial futures were down more than 200 points.
The Bush administration has repeatedly opposed using a bailout fund being administered by the executive branch, saying it should not be used for emergency aid to the automakers because it was designed specifically to restore stability to the financial sector. Following the vote, the White House said it was studying its options.
"Due to this colossal failure by the U.S. Senate, now it's up to the president and the Treasury secretary," Bernero said Friday on CBS' "Early Show." "Working Americans will appreciate the president stepping in — and pull us back from the precipice, pull us back from the economic cliff."
Lawmakers, who aren't scheduled to return to legislative work until early January, were looking to the president, as well.
"Plan B is the president," said Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said action by President George W. Bush was the "only viable option."
General Motors and Chrysler are in the most immediate danger while Ford Motor Co. has said it does not need federal help now, but could face collateral damage if one of its domestic rivals fell. With the economy in recession, the auto industry has struggled with lackluster sales and choked credit markets.
Detroit's carmakers employ nearly a quarter-million workers, and more than 730,000 others produce materials and parts for cars. If one of the automakers declared bankruptcy, some estimate as many as 3 million U.S. jobs could be lost next year.
The White House said it was disappointed by failure of legislation that "presented the best chance to avoid a disorderly bankruptcy while ensuring taxpayer funds only go to firms whose stakeholders were prepared to make difficult decisions to become viable."
Many congressional Republicans and some economists said the companies would be best to pursue a prearranged bankruptcy that would allow them to restructure quickly. But most Democrats and the carmakers rejected that, arguing it would quickly lead to liquidation because consumers would never buy cars from a bankrupt auto company.
As it lobbied unsuccessfully on Thursday, White House officials said the weak economy couldn't afford the collapse of the auto industry. President-elect Barack Obama said an industry shutdown would have a "devastating ripple effect" on the already battered economy.
GM said in a statement is was "deeply disappointed" that the bipartisan agreement faltered. Chrysler said it was also disappointed and would "continue to pursue a workable solution to help ensure the future viability of the company."
The companies efforts for funding failed after a marathon set of negotiations at the Capitol among labor, the auto industry and lawmakers who bargained into the night to salvage the auto bailout at a time of soaring job losses and widespread economic turmoil.
The group came close to agreement, but it stalled over the UAW's refusal to agree to wage cuts before their current contract expires in 2011. Republicans, in turn, balked at giving the automakers federal aid.
Aid to the automakers gained urgency last week when the government reported the economy had lost more than a half-million jobs in November, the most in any month for more than 30 years.
The stunning disintegration of the auto bailout proposal was eerily reminiscent of the defeat of the $700 billion Wall Street bailout in the House, which sent the Dow tumbling and lawmakers back to the drawing board to draft a new agreement to rescue financial institutions and halt a broader economic meltdown. That measure ultimately passed and was signed by Bush.
It wasn't immediately clear, however, how the auto aid measure might be resurrected in a bailout-fatigued, postelection Congress, with Bush's influence at a low ebb.
Earlier in the week, the House approved a bill that would have created a Bush-appointed overseer to dole out the money and monitor the companies' progress in restructuring.
Some Senate Democrats joined Republicans in turning against the House-passed bill, despite increasingly urgent calls from the White House and Obama for quick action.
"For God sakes, I hope the presidentf acts," Mayor Virg Bernero of Lansing, Mich., exclaimed Friday morning.
General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC, which have said they could run out of cash within weeks, have few options left after the dramatic defeat in the Senate of a $14 billion bailout for the domestic auto industry.
Its demise late Thursday prompted immediate calls from lawmakers in both parties for the Bush administration to tap into the $700 billion Wall Street bailout to rescue the beleaguered auto industry. The bill failed after talks broke down over the [BOLD]refusal of the United Auto Workers union to meet Republican demands for aggressive wage reductions[/BOLD].
The Senate rejected the bailout 52-35 on a procedural vote — well short of the 60 required — after the talks fell apart.
"I dread looking at Wall Street," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid in anticipation of Friday's stock market reaction. "It's not going to be a pleasant sight."
Indeed, stock markets in Asia and Europe dropped sharply on Friday after getting word of the bailout's failure, and U.S. markets were set to plunge when trading opened. Dow Jones industrial futures were down more than 200 points.
The Bush administration has repeatedly opposed using a bailout fund being administered by the executive branch, saying it should not be used for emergency aid to the automakers because it was designed specifically to restore stability to the financial sector. Following the vote, the White House said it was studying its options.
"Due to this colossal failure by the U.S. Senate, now it's up to the president and the Treasury secretary," Bernero said Friday on CBS' "Early Show." "Working Americans will appreciate the president stepping in — and pull us back from the precipice, pull us back from the economic cliff."
Lawmakers, who aren't scheduled to return to legislative work until early January, were looking to the president, as well.
"Plan B is the president," said Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said action by President George W. Bush was the "only viable option."
General Motors and Chrysler are in the most immediate danger while Ford Motor Co. has said it does not need federal help now, but could face collateral damage if one of its domestic rivals fell. With the economy in recession, the auto industry has struggled with lackluster sales and choked credit markets.
Detroit's carmakers employ nearly a quarter-million workers, and more than 730,000 others produce materials and parts for cars. If one of the automakers declared bankruptcy, some estimate as many as 3 million U.S. jobs could be lost next year.
The White House said it was disappointed by failure of legislation that "presented the best chance to avoid a disorderly bankruptcy while ensuring taxpayer funds only go to firms whose stakeholders were prepared to make difficult decisions to become viable."
Many congressional Republicans and some economists said the companies would be best to pursue a prearranged bankruptcy that would allow them to restructure quickly. But most Democrats and the carmakers rejected that, arguing it would quickly lead to liquidation because consumers would never buy cars from a bankrupt auto company.
As it lobbied unsuccessfully on Thursday, White House officials said the weak economy couldn't afford the collapse of the auto industry. President-elect Barack Obama said an industry shutdown would have a "devastating ripple effect" on the already battered economy.
GM said in a statement is was "deeply disappointed" that the bipartisan agreement faltered. Chrysler said it was also disappointed and would "continue to pursue a workable solution to help ensure the future viability of the company."
The companies efforts for funding failed after a marathon set of negotiations at the Capitol among labor, the auto industry and lawmakers who bargained into the night to salvage the auto bailout at a time of soaring job losses and widespread economic turmoil.
The group came close to agreement, but it stalled over the UAW's refusal to agree to wage cuts before their current contract expires in 2011. Republicans, in turn, balked at giving the automakers federal aid.
Aid to the automakers gained urgency last week when the government reported the economy had lost more than a half-million jobs in November, the most in any month for more than 30 years.
The stunning disintegration of the auto bailout proposal was eerily reminiscent of the defeat of the $700 billion Wall Street bailout in the House, which sent the Dow tumbling and lawmakers back to the drawing board to draft a new agreement to rescue financial institutions and halt a broader economic meltdown. That measure ultimately passed and was signed by Bush.
It wasn't immediately clear, however, how the auto aid measure might be resurrected in a bailout-fatigued, postelection Congress, with Bush's influence at a low ebb.
Earlier in the week, the House approved a bill that would have created a Bush-appointed overseer to dole out the money and monitor the companies' progress in restructuring.
Some Senate Democrats joined Republicans in turning against the House-passed bill, despite increasingly urgent calls from the White House and Obama for quick action.