Oh really?

The Lemans looks very similar.

looks like someone beat me to it... thanks munche


[This message has been edited by Ude-lose (edited July 12, 2002).]

 

Whatever. Guys don't even bother, let them have the GrandGTO. Its gonna be funny just watch. The performance will be the only thing to distinguish it from a GTP. This will be a car that gets no looks or recognition on the streets as a cool car or musclecar because it looks exactly like todays FWD V6 Grand Prix/Am's. I can hear it, " yeah they're fast, but dude they look just like the other boring cars, you can barely tell them apart, and you'd think after all these years it would look at least a little like a GTO."

------------------
Camaro/Chevrolet crazy F-Body lunatic.

"The new GTO, the Grand Prix/Am of musclecars." http://oz.uc.edu/~padgetjr/compare.jpg



[This message has been edited by IZ28 (edited July 12, 2002).]

 

The only funny thing will be watching GM scramble to get some more in because they all went out the door faster than they could bring them in. And this is not my imagination its happend to several other countries that decided market them. :P and are also now selling the holden caprice and commodore as Lumina SS. their figures where similar to what they are proposing for the states, 25K a year, well two years have past and they are approaching 100,000 exported vehicles.

Maybe this car wont appeal to you like the f-body, but in general this car is liked by the majority of people.

Are you bitter that the aussies actually make a nice car??? Holden and GM are still one and the same company, utimately a chunk of all Holden sales filter back to the GM N/A.

[This message has been edited by Ude-lose (edited July 12, 2002).]

 

OMFG - I am utterly astounded at the degree of misconception displayed by the staunch supporters of this car. You "supporters" act like we HATE this car or something.
WHERE DO YOU GET THIS?!?!
Ude - WE are in the category that likes the car!!! I challenge any of you to show where we have degraded the cars capabilities or refinements. It's the NAME, man... respect to the NAME is where we have a sore spot! The car itself is awesome - I've never said otherwise. So would you and others PLEASE - lay off this "You haters of this are gonna see..." attitude. We don't deserve it.

BigDarknFast replied -> "ProudPony - Somehow I get the impression that even if the single drawing released so far by Pontiac had shown hood scoops, you'd be complaining "hey where's the hood tachometer!" or some such. "

BDnF, instead of scoops, I really would rather see a more sculpted front nose like stevil's rendition that I can identify to the GTO that lives in my head. (BTW - I think we all liked his work over the GM image released.)
However, for those who DO want them, I think some very low profile scoops could be integrated with style that would complement the car, even look attractive - not the big gaudy scoops like on a blown alcohol funny car. I honestly DO NOT want to see the hood tach on this refined level of a car.

HuJass -> you got me! I was thinking a few GP's could be had with Hurst equipment (dealers would usually give you anything you wanted back then - if it was available and you wanted to pay for it), but I was at work and didn't have my library to consult. I think folks understood the point I was trying to make though, about the perceived images of those old cars.

In talking about the name Grand Prix though... think about the phrase you wrote yourself - "I think we need to be changing our thoughts that the GP is something substandard and start recognizing it's rich and powerful history, which was completely watered down and finally desecrated with the switch to fwd in '88."
I totally agree with you on the part about having a rich and powerful history. So are you not happy with the use of that name on todays model? (BTW - my pop ran a '62 Galaxie in S/S with a factory-prepped 406 3x2v 4spd against those GP's back in '62/'63 in Norfolk Va. He said they were definitely good competition! I may have some vintage pics of them on the track...)

This is getting old. We all like the car, just some of us wish they had called it a Monaro instead of a GTO for our own personal reasons. And can anyone deny that GM has been "using" legendary names on less than legendary cars lately? End-of-story.

I'm about to side with IZ28 and just give up on you "pros" concerning this topic. But in 10 more years, when every model name GM has ever had (save the Vette) has been bastardized and used up, I'll just give you a whispering "I told you so" with a wink... .

 

Thanks for your input PP......it's EXACTLY the tone and style of debating that SHOULD be going on here, but I swear it's like talking to a wall......no matter how many times we say the same thing the rebuttals always come back with arguements we've NEVER made........talk about being blinded from the dust caused by beating this dead old horse.......

Now that there's a glimmer of hope that we'll get a new Camaro in the next few years, the GTO "pros" can have it (still own my GTP) and I'll wait for the 5th gen.....lord help us when it shows up and this "like it - don't like it" debate get's really ugly.....it's bound to happen (remember the last two remakes)....

 

Oh well I stand corrected,even though it looks more like the Firebird than the GTO.


[This message has been edited by 91Zman (edited July 12, 2002).]

 

There's a sucka born every minute.Most of the people today won't care because they never grew up during that time.The teenagers back then are 50+ now and I'll bet they will cringe at this new incarnation if it comes out as that design.Then again ahhh....never mind..the beaten dead horse(post)is now all the way to China.

 

Proud Pony,
I HATE the fact GM puts the Grand Prix name on that FWD,V-6, 4-door sedan. That car is not worthy of the Grand Prix name.

The GP was originally designed as a fast, agile, luxurious coupe. What the f*** happened?
And as of 2004, there won't even be a coupe available. Now THIS is raping, or prostituting a name. GM should be ashamed of themselves.

A real GP coupe needs to come back. In RWD form, with a V-8, and a bit larger than the upcoming GTO.

 

Whoa.....my old 1967 GP was a boat!. Sure it had a 400 cu. in motor and for it's day had a luxury interior, but I'd bet good $$ on my 1999 GTP kicking it's tail in every catagory.

 

ProudPony - It's great if you like the Monaro, fine if you don't like it as a GTO. But just as I respect your opinion as such, I hope you can also respect the opinions of folks like me who think it's a fitting and contemporary tribute to the GTO name. There's little doubt the new GTO will have awesome performance and will uphold the GTO performance tradition with pride. The only thing folks seem to be objecting to is the appearance. It seems prudent to recall that there was very little in the early GTO's to distinguish them... why is that now such an important criterion now? I would think that TRUE fans of the GTO would be primarily concerned with PERFORMANCE, and there's very little to gripe about there... very little indeed. Hood scoops - such a trivial thing to fix! Such an easy thing to integrate, how does anyone here know they will not appear on the NAIAS show car in January? My main point though is I just do not find them important... it's the PERFORMANCE which matters, and the new GTO has that in spades. New front end? Why would I want it? I love the front end on my 98 GTP. I did not like the GTO concept GM floated in 1999, and I'm sorry but I also don't like Stevil's. Perhaps GM is trying to avoid making another GTO styling mistake. Personally I am glad they are being conservative, and putting the priority where it counts: PERFORMANCE.

Here's your anti-GM attitude again. You're perfectly within your rights posting opinions... but I don't have to embrace people who are cynical towards GM, whether or not they are owners of GM wheels. Sure, some names like the Impala have been weakened. So what? It's THEIR trademark, they can do with it what they wish. It so happens the Impala today is a major success for GM and has 5-star crashworthiness to boot. BTW, do you also think the 2002 Camaro/Firebird is a mere shadow of its past incarnations? If so, there are a lot of LS1 FBody owners ready to stomp all or virtually all of your vaunted Mustang collection into a pulp.

 

Doug,
It was all on how you optioned the car. If you stuck the 376 horse 428 with a stick in that GP, added a nice gear and the optional suspension, and kept all the options out, you'd have a real runner. It may not handle as good as a new one, but it would probably mow it down in the 1/4 (stock vs. stock).

And the GP went thru it's more luxurious stages. '65-'68, '73-'77. But other times it was a screamer. '62-'64, '69-'71.
It was all on how you optioned it.

 

GM got cornerd into a bit of a spot.

It kept thinking the next f-body will take the mustangs sales away the next one the next one. But unfortunately it never happened even with more HP advantage, why?

Your reply to this question: Not enough Advertising ,More options on the stang, more colors, cheaper V6 , well folks these reasons are the biggest bunch of BS ive evr heard as to the reason the F-body couldn't outsell the stang. The real reason I believe was the dimensions of the F-body don't suit the majority of the poulation eg Very little rear seat room - its all but a two seater sports car, the built quality of the interior ,driving position and rattles , not all people look at the HP even though its my biggest priority. The GTO not only matches this criterior but it far surpases the stang in these departments and also has IRS, who knows I could be wrong but I think these reasons will sway more people to the GTO that would have bought a stang (if the price was equal).

Oh yeh another thing I find amusing is everyone saying Dutch Injuns is what we wanted. Now thats just GREAT !!! I too like those designs... but Guys this GTO that GM sourced from OZ and in essense is FREE for GM!!! all the hard work has been done by the aussies all they had to do was bring it,and you guys are upset ????

Ok lets design a GTO from the groung up and blow the 5th gen camaro buget on it... yeh you would've been real happy with that !!!!!

Now you get the GTO for free all R & D work already done for GM, and you still have the Buget for a ground-up Camaro for 2005 for example, 2 performance vehicles from GM and your still complaining...sheesh !!!

Some of you make out that your talking to a brick wall , i might feel the same way trying to put my point of view across, your argument is why call it the GTO??? My answer is because its a RWD V8 pontiac vehicle which has humble roots as a Family Car which again is what the GTO always was !!!!! tada ,,, end of rant..

p.s. we all get fired up with emotions, hey thats cool , we are all friends and true muscle car enthusiast with slightly different views. peace.

 

Ya... you're right. It's the small backseat thta made the current F-Body fail against the current Mustang

Go sit in the back seat of a Mustang. How much room do you have? Sheez. Think before you speak!

Build Quality? We've been over this a million times. They are about the same (Mustang and Camaro), and int he JD Powers Quality Survey, Camaro BEAT Mustang by a few points.

Driving position is about the only thing that you said that makes much sense.... but I'll tell YOU that driving position in a Mustang is a major reason why I got a CAMARO!

The Mustang's shifter is so far away from you that you feel like you are almost picking yourself up off the seat to shift. I perfer the Camaro seating position. It's low, you feel the road. That's what a sports car is. It's still comfortable.

 

Hey Darth, your right about the rear seating,sorry,i did'nt say i was correct about everything i just assumed the stang had more rear seat room by its appearance.
Im just trying to understand why the mustang was more successful that the fbody...and if the GTO has something the f-body didnt. surely its not just the lack of advertising or the extra color combos. The 2 cars are priced similarly, the f-body used to stomp it n power yet in sales the stang came out on top... did people prefer its looks??? :scratching my head:

 

I think it is the sum of many things... a lot of them, outside of the car itself.

I told a group of friends the other day that I was thinking of replacing my Camaro with a new Camaro or Firebird... THREE of the seven in the group at the same time said "I thought they quit making those a while ago". That, my friend, is pure lack of advertising. Who is going to buy a product if they don't even know it is still being built?

And this isn't the first time I've gotten that reaction... I've gotten that many times before they even announced that 02 was the last year.

IMHO, the two biggets reasons that the F-body had failed recently is lack of marketing, and lack of changes to the car.