I think if they built it here they would have no problems getting it near the F-body price. Keep in mind that these cars don't cost very much in austrailia after the money conversion. The Monaro costs more than a Commodore, but I think that that has something to do with the stigma of the car.

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Any way, the gto will be successful, as to what level only time will tell.

when the holden was exported to the middle east,south africa and other countries, no one could have predicted the massive chunk it took out of their automotive markets, like a freak everybody lapped it up, which consiquently caused GM to raise its eyebrows WTF???

Yeh a parallel world where GM left Holden to its own devices, where the RWD V8 family car naver died, where FWD was never really accepted by the public, where the V8 supercars reign supreme... im talkin about Australia. This car is totaly new to you guys but has been tryed and tested here in Oz and comes with no "new car" inherent problems and is already mass produced in left hand drive. If thats not enough reason to bring it well I don't know what is.

 

Well, you're on a roll - there's no denying that. But you said it yourself in the statement above - scoops - at least on the exterior. Oh, and I guess the little GTO letters are the difference too. Another small detail - engine combo's? Um, seen a '62 GP with a factory Hurst ball?

When you hear "Grand Prix" in conversations today, do you think of the '62 luxo barge that looked like a '64 GTO? Or do you think of the last decade of Pontiac's performance offerings? THAT is another difference. When folks hear "GTO" they think historically. I don't see how anyone can deny that.

Before we get another 8-page dupli-thread going on this...
The key word "scoops" that was used in the opening post, well, properly done scoops could have probably resolved this whole mess - just because it would have demonstrated that GM made the effort to acknowledge a visual link to the past. That's all that was being asked for, given that nobody had a choice about the name.

BTW, I totally agree with Darth (and others) - the GTO will not touch Mustang sales in the next several years, or doubtfully ever. The Mustang is hardly marketed against a BMW, Lincoln LS, caddy CTSi, or Benz right now, and I think that this is more the market GM is trying to take share from with a $35-40K performance car with impecable high-class interior. Teens-to-30-year-olds that want to go to a dragstrip or road racing event on occasion don't really want to have a car with that level of refinement anyhow - much less have to pay an extra $10K to get it. Can you see a 2 year old GTO tubbed, with a 6-point roll cage welded into it and the passenger seats all in some guys garage attic?

To me, this new GTO has no visual links to the GTO of lore, and it's a shame. Simple as that.

Still, I can appreciate your POV, and I hope you get one of 'em!

 

I have a hard time believing GM would lower the price of the would-be successful GTO if another iteration is built stateside. I would think it would still stay relatively limited compared to F-body production.

I also don't see it hitting Mustang sales either. At best, it might make a couple Cobra buyers think twice. I would think they'll need to introduce a new, low $20k sports car that addresses the shortcomings of the Fbody.

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-JERRY-
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Boy, it never ceases to amaze me how hard it is to get across ONE SIMPLE POINT....the new "GTO" should at least LOOK like a GTO and not just another Pontiac.....after-all it was Pontiac that slapped the GTO name on it.

Enough already with the simplistic attempts at a rebuttal that misses the point all together...and the personal attacks (we are adults aren't we?) this was a thread about it's appearance wasn't it?

Geeeeeez, focus people.....

 

quote from Ude-lose:

Amen bro! I believe it's going to make a significant dent in V8 Mustang sales and will be very damaging competition for the Mach I. 20,000 GTO's (ALL with LS1 V8's BTW) are enough to do some damage to the business case for a V8 Mustang variant. I'd bet quite a few Mustang-intenders are keenly interested in having a little more rear legroom, for one thing. I read on another site that the average of today's Mustang buyer is 40, and IIRC that's about the average of Camaro buyers as well. I will be very surprised if the 04 GTO gets over $35k in the US, except possibly for a 400HP LS6 variant (IF that is offered).

ProudPony - Somehow I get the impression that even if the single drawing released so far by Pontiac had shown hood scoops, you'd be complaining "hey where's the hood tachometer!" or some such. Guess what - the Z28 has no hood scoops either, and the scoop on the Mustang GT is a closed-off sham. Personally - I like hood scoops, even the nonfunctional ones on my IROC-Z. But I find it absurd to condemn a sporty car simply because it has a clean hood. (Would you also like to see a little "Judge" sticker on the fender?) I agree with HuJass in that the GTO does evoke the current Pontiac appearance cues successfully. BTW, as a GTP owner, I'd like to add, there's a lot to like about the front end appearance of the Grand Prix! Sales of the Grand Prix spiked 62% in 1997, the first year of the new body style. Yes - it's been a few years now - but the shape is timeless, sporty and well-proportioned and that gives it longer legs in the market.

 

Let's not make the same lazy mistake twice by slapping on a GTO badge on a similar car as they did back then.It has to be different.

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1991 Z/28 350TPI red ext. w/gray int.
1973 Z/28(project car)

 

91Zman - look thru some history - the original GTO was an astounding profit success for GM, and made hundreds of thousands of buyers happy. What exactly is the problem with that?

 

Don't make me pull out pictures of the 60's Boneville, Catalina, Lemans , Tempest. They all look very similar to the GTO.(family)

Everybody is screaming that that the GTO should look different, if Pontiac was going for a retro look well then yes it should look like one from the past, but pontiac is going for a modern look which the monaro fits straight in to the pontiac line-up even though its totaly different vehicle, so it might look the same as other pontiacs but really its different... just like the original Goat was. Get it looks the same but its different, V8 RWD 6 speed , IRS , 350 horsepower (different on the inside)

And i don't for a second think there wont be scoops. they just didn't show them on the 5 minute sketch they drew.

It seems to me that many of you expected a Pony Car... The GTO is no Pony Car its never was and never will be. The GTO was a Muscle Car in other words a family car that has been taken and given some awesome power.

I can understand some people will never like it for one reason or another, but dont try and make people hate it without you even seeing one first hand.

[This message has been edited by Ude-lose (edited July 11, 2002).]

 

Proud Pony,
Actually, you could get a Hurst shifter in a GP. And for many years.
And don't forget they made 16 421SD (405 HP) GPs in '62 and and 3 in '63. These cars could probably spank any stock (and many modified) GTO.
The GP SSJ had the Hurst as an option.
I'll have to consult my GP books to see what other years GPs were available with a Hurst.

And GPs were available with some pretty high hp engines. The 428HO in '68 & '69 was rated at 390. Pontiac's third highest rated engine. The regular 428 and the '70 455 were rated at 370 hp. And these engines could be had with a 4 speed manual.

I think we need to be changing our thoughts that the GP is something substandard and start recognizing it's rich and powerful history, which was completely watered down and finally desecrated with the switch to fwd in '88.

 

Maybe the whiners that want the GTO to look so different want it to look like an Aztek.

 

May I have my cheese with my wine Mista poncho sir?

 

Weren't a lot of people smoking weed back in the '60s?The '68 & 69 are my favorite GTOs,no other Pontiac car looked like it.Anyway it looks like history is repeating it self.2 wrongs doesn't make a right,childish but hey...



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1991 Z/28 350TPI red ext. w/gray int.
1973 Z/28(project car)

 

On this... I agree! The new GTO will make a profit and make buyers happy! Oh no, not again!

 

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Jason

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