Z284ever

Here's what I think is a good place for the 'new' Pontiac to start:

http://www.opel.ie/content_data/GME/...AND/index.html


Pick no more than two products, and get them right!



Here's the OPC Corsa:

OutsiderIROC-Z

Geoff Chadwick

Try again.

But I agree, the Opel OPC line is a great place. What is the Vectra built off of? The Malibu?

Get the OPC Vectra and OPC Astra.

Raven99

I like it I think that would make an awesome Pontiac

Z284ever

Unless Pontiac can tap into a hot retail market really soon, you guys will get your wish.

HuJass

Believe me, it's not my wish.
I bleed Pontiac.

But what we have now, and what some propose, is not Pontiac.

If Pontiac cannot get back to what made it so great in the '60s and early '70s, then just kill it now.

If you want hot FWDs here from Opel, fine. Bring them over as Opels. Or rebadge them as Chevys. But not Pontiac.

Z284ever

Personally, for me, the real Pontiac died after 1981. After that, Pontiacs were just GM corporate cars with Pontiac specific snouts and cladding to me. I still would hate to see the brand go though. Maybe, just maybe, if it survives alittle longer, who knows what it might become in the future. Could even be something interesting.


Anyway, I can see the handwriting on the wall here. I can see how Pontiac will now be slowly marginalized (actually, not so slowly), starved of product, and eventually when no one wants to buy one anymore, it will be killed without any fanfare or complaint. I'd hate to see that. I'd want Pontiac to survive - and maybe get another chance. And that just isn't going to happen unless Pontiac can at least get one product which becomes a smash hit. One product which stirs excitement with more than just 12,000 buyers per year.

You know, I've got to say this, (and I mean no offence here - but it needs to said), lots of people who proclaim themselves "Pontiac Enthusiasts" have inadvertantly harmed this brand. I mean all this talk about Pontiac being this or that and all the screaming and yelling for a GTO, and when it FINALLY gets here >crickets<. Same thing with the G8. I mean jeez-o-pete guys.

Pontiac needs a product which can make a BIG splash with some segment. Probably the under 25 crowd. Something which can create cult status, like the Mini did or the xB did, or the VW GTi did in the early '80's - or the GTO in 1964.
I say, take a chance.

One thing that is apparent to me from at least late 2003 until now, that the traditional, big HP V8, RWD, is NOT what Pontiac does very successfully anymore. We need to face reality on this one, if Pontiac is to have one last chance for life.

SSbaby

What saddens me is why the G8 isn't selling at the numbers anticipated. A great GM product not selling very well. What's the story?

The G8 is the Pontiac '5-series' at an affordable price... but the American public hasn't embraced the plan. Why not? I thought the car would have sold itself out the door.

rlchv70

Some ideas:

http://www.welovepontiacs.com/future.html

A Pontiac version of this would be easy to do, and could be a big hit:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ew-photos.html

jrp4uc

I don't think any mainstream brand is moving a lot of v8/rwd cars unless they're named Mustang. The Chrysler 300's had some legs based on styling alone, but I don't think that many buyers are daring enough to buy a $30K car that will consumer more gas with gas prices being so volatile. I personally like the G8 GT well enough, but I know there's enough technology in the pipeline that will make such an investment look crude in a few years by delivery similar performance and better fuel economy.

Those that can't stand the thought of subcompact and 4-6 cyl Pontiacs need accept that the high perf v8 days are dwindling for every mfr. There haven't even been many v8s offered by Pontiac in the last half-dozen years outside a token model here or there. The last couple decades have only had a few highlights, regardless of powertrain, so I don't see why injecting some fresh cars, like Opels, is such a bad thing. Of course I don't want Daewoo G3s, but prove you can sell something to get on solid footing and maybe there will be more leeway for (smaller) niche cars.

jrp4uc

I think they've explored all of those ideas already.

A Chevy version of it for the US is even easier. Why do two of them?

HuJass

In a lot of Pontiac enthusiasts' minds, the last Pontiac was built in 1979 when the last Pontiac 400 rolled off the assembly line. I agree with that.


In terms of the new GTO and the G8; I belong to the Pontiac clubs. The majority of these people didn't/don't fawn over these cars for a few reasons. One being, they weren't built in the U.S. Another being, is that they had no stylistic relationship with the Pontiacs from the golden era. Another one (which I personally thought was rediculous) was that the cars don't have a real Pontiac V-8 in them (yes, many people complained about that).

When the Camaro came out, all these Pontiac guys said things along the lines of, "why couldn't they have done that with the GTO?"
(Not that they wanted the Camaro to be the GTO, but look at the genesis of the design of the new car; where the design team started; how true they stayed to the 1st gen Camaro; how instanly recognizable the new Camaro is as a Camaro. The new GTO should have looked like a GTO)


There's no reason the cars you suggest that Pontiac should have, could be badged and offered as Chevys, and Pontiac could be sent to pasture.
I hate the demise of such a great nameplate, but I'd rather it be remembered for the great cars it built in the golden years rather than the boring and pedestrian ones being built now.

Jim the Nomad

GM doesn't have a reputation for thinking outside the box.

I think Pontiac needs to die before any more effort wasted on it.

My opinion is based only on my own anecdotal evidence, but outside of this message board and one or two people I know that own firebirds, no one gives a rat's @ss about Pontiac...

I have a hunch that where many on this board say "Grand Am and Grand Prix were great names" and "people knew them" and "pontiac is the sporty, edgy, and exciting brand," most of America remembers the Grand Am and Grand Prix as lackluster, cheap, and generally undesirable rental cars, and thinks of pontiac as "Chevy Cars with a grill that looks like a BMW's if you squint."

Pontiac is GM's appendix, imho. Sure, it has history and a number of fans, but not enough fans to keep it afloat, apparently.


Saturn may not move Pontiac's volume, but on the other hand, it pulls in import buyers. Lots of people still don't even associate Saturn with GM. THAT is Saturn's greatest asset, and represents potential that other GM brands don't have.

If you ask me, any effort spent on Pontiac would be better spent on Saturn.

gtjeff

A lot of people may not know it, but the Grand Prix won JD Power Intial Quality awards in both 2007 and 2008, beating the Toyota Avalon and Toyota is not cancelling the Avalon. (nice move Bob)

I disagree with limiting Pontiac's lineup since its always been a high volume brand, but if it had to be niche I would go with a heritage inspired GTO, new kappa based fiero to capture the sporty small car buyers and 2 other models, but tough to say what they should be?

teal98

How many people actually think the Grand Prix was a competitive car in its class? I know there are a few on here. Do you really think that it compared well with an Impala, Accord, or Camry?

I'd had more than a few rides in recent Grand Prixs (rental cars). The renters pretty much universally disliked them. Their styling resulted in interior space compromises, yet they weren't at all sporty. From what I could tell, they just didn't sell to non-captive private buyers.

On the other hand, some people actually do like the Impala -- mostly because of it's spaciousness. It's not trying to be something it's not, and it's pretty good at what it actually is (a large sedan).