formula79

At this point...the bailout is starting to not make sense. It is like you have a sick patient and you keep dangling medicine as long as you can then chop their knees off. The hoops are getting ridiculous, and it is wasting energy GM could be using to plan either another way to get cash..or how to survive bankrupty. It's kinda like when Donald Trump was almost bankrupt. He basically sat all his creditors down and said.."Hey you have a way better chance of getting your money back if I am not ruined and can make things right". I think this bail out mess has pushed the unions and everyone envolved to realize it is serious, and everyone could be on the streets..so GM does have more negotiating room now. Even if they file bankrupty...IF they can make it out..at least they will not have the government telling it what to make.

I mean the thing that hits me most is..I just can't think of a way GM can take this government money..and come out better...or the kind of company that can compete with Toyota.

Z284ever

And what about Chrysler? It's owner (Cerberus) has over $20 billion in liquid cash and generates revenues of $100 billion per year.

Cerberus shouldn't get a free ride here...

SSbaby

Absolutely! Cerberus doesn't deserve a cent! They're not in any financial trouble.

Btw I read it would take years for GM to restructure under Ch11?

onebadponcho

Are you drunk? Did someone steal your username/access to this site? It seems like up until this, you were a strong proponent of this bailout/loan/whatever.

So now you're seeing the logic for not letting ol' Uncle Sam put his "dick-skinners" where they don't belong huh?

I see one of 3 scenarios occurring:
1. The Detroit 3/2.8/whatever dies a "natural death" (bankruptcy kills them).
2. The Detroit 3/2.8/whatever survives bankruptcy.
3. The Detroit 3/2.8/whatever dies from hanging/strangulation.

If the bailout/loan/whatever is in fact approved, it will have so many strings attached to it that scenario #3 becomes a near certainty.
I think scenario #2 is the best we can hope for.

formula79

Yup...I almost wish Mercedes had not sold Chrysler.

Z284ever

Yeah, at least they were already done raping Chrysler.....

formula79

I am for a "low interest loan" along the lines of what Wall Street got.with common sense strings. I AM NOT for what is about to be agreed on...which is not enough money to fix the issue, and makes the big 3 essentially puppets of the government forced to make what Uncle Sam wants and not what i want. Not when import makers don't have to play by the same rules.

scott9050

I am starting to agree with this. The strings are getting ridiculous, the money not what they said they needed and the car Czar provision is giving a lot of power away.

My Red 93Z-28

I'm not going to lie, I haven't been paying a lot of attention to this the last couple of days...the $14 or $15b that is in this bailout...is it coming from the $25b they were already supposed to get? I did see that this was supposed to help GM until March...is that when they may or may not get the rest of the $34b that they asked for? Ford is out now correct? I did see where the Car Czar could force the automaker into bankruptcy if he/she thought they weren't on the right path.

ForYourMalice

Not to mention that Lutz, without even flinching, came out and said they're going to turn around and ask for more next year. I mean I like and respect the man because of his no BS approach, but the fact that they're publicly saying this before this one even gets through is testament to how pointless it is. This would be just the tip of the iceberg. Its an effing joke, it has to stop. If we as a country were told to imagine the audacity of these bailouts 10-15 years ago it would be beyond comprehension. Yet here we are - thanks, Fed

You can call it a "loan" if you want to try and justify it, but its still a bailout.

flowmotion

Everyone knows they're coming back for more money. These are just the "bridge" loans to get them over until next year when Obama can worry about how much money they really need.

However the GOP will be significantly less powerful next year, so they are trying to get the concessions while they can.

CLEAN

That, in a nutshell, is exactly how I feel. I'm getting a big urge to get all the GM stuff that I like now (Camaro, G8, maybe a CTS for the wife) because I just have this bad feeling that the "car czar" and I won't agree on what is a desireable product. Kind of like if you were in the market in about '70, and you saw the writing on the wall, in just a few short years, the product coming out of Detroid was VASTLY different.

CLEAN

The way this round is being packaged, its pretty widely accepted that it's a bridge until the new president/congress is in place to hook them up w/ the rest.

My Red 93Z-28

That's kind of what I was thinking since its less than half of what they were asking for.

formula79

Thats a even more ominous prospect. For instance, congress wanted Detroit to agree to never sue states again over emissions laws (something to that effect)...and Bush ran block and got that pulled from the language.